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      04-02-2010, 12:15 AM   #23
brracing
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Entire thing is bolt in...but the main hoop does not go in and out easy.
The rear down bars and X brace do...that was the point, so that the rear seats could be used at any time, as the main hoop does NOT interfere w seating, or engress or egress to the rear seats, nor headroom, nor anything else.
The rear shock brace is behind the seats and in the front portion of the trunk area so that it doesn't compromise trunk space and does not interfere w the rear seats being up or down.
let us know if there are more questions....
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      11-16-2010, 10:09 PM   #24
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Hey guys. I know this thread is pretty old, but I can't believe there's not more interest here! I just saw a thread for wheels that was 47 pages long, and yet the only people that seem to be making bolt-on roll cages has... well anyway. I digress.

I was up at Buttonwillow a couple weeks ago and saw some people fly off the track. Then on youtube, I saw a video of a Miata at Buttonwillow do about 4 flips before coming to rest upside down. Soooooo this has me thinking more seriously about a roll cage.

Question: Since this unit is bolt-on, does it really provide the solidity that would be needed to protect the driver in the event of a roll? I guess that's a silly question, but the connection points just look- I dunno. Kinda weak to my untrained eyes. I mean, most roll cages are welded to the frame, are they not? I'm imagining my car flipping down a track and hitting a wall with me and my dad inside... now I'm imagining 44lbs of metal tubing knocking around inside the cabin with us.

I really like the idea of a bolt on, but I guess it makes me nervous!
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      11-30-2010, 07:18 AM   #25
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Jeremy, i think BR Racing made them selves clear, this is a harness bar, not a roll cage. Im sure it would help in the event of a crash, but that is not what it is designed for. It is designed for you to install 4 point harness's.
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      11-30-2010, 02:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenc View Post
Jeremy, i think BR Racing made them selves clear, this is a harness bar, not a roll cage. Im sure it would help in the event of a crash, but that is not what it is designed for. It is designed for you to install 4 point harness's.
I talked to them on the phone and they made themselves clear: this product is designed to withstand the a roll and provide protection in the event of roof collapse.

BRracing, please chime in if you're watching and clarify.
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      11-30-2010, 02:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxnix View Post
44 lbs is a little heavy, but Al would be interesting.

Close up photographs of attachment points and strain gauge data will be interesting also!
Cant make a rollbar out of aluminum
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      12-02-2010, 09:37 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremydgreat View Post
I mean, most roll cages are welded to the frame, are they not? I'm imagining my car flipping down a track and hitting a wall with me and my dad inside... now I'm imagining 44lbs of metal tubing knocking around inside the cabin with us.
Couldn't agree more. That local crash video was an eye-opener for me as well and made me realize that I need to get a more dedicated car set up properly for track racing - thinking NC MX-5 track car. Otherwise, it'll be auto-x only for now. If you're serious about turning your 1 into a track car, a weld-in roll bar (or full cage if not driven on the street) is the way to go. You'll need to go custom since I don't know of any off-the-shelf metal roll bars on the market.

Evosport in Huntington Beach is renowned for their BMW club racing cage work. They can build you something both functional and beautiful. It won't be cheap, the quality never is, and the ability to walk away after all goes wrong is tough to put a price on. www.evosport.com

You may have seen their work in a recent European Car article:
http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/e...roll_cage.html
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      12-02-2010, 09:02 PM   #29
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Will try to make this clear on the "bolt-in" solution. It has NOT been tested...so, there is no proof of how much of a roll-over it will withstand.
And, there are cases on both sides, where a well-designed cage will compress, and where a bolt-in will work fine. It all depends on the amount of force (mass x velocity) and the direction of the force vector.
We had a case this spring, where a E36 325i sedan, at Laguna, driver driving over his head, lost it coming out of Turn 9, rolled the car 5 times, landed on top of the outer barrier, and rolled back upright. Car was totalled....no bar of any type, driver and instructor got out, no issues, and the car was totalled, but did not compress at the B-pillar area.
We have had bolt-in bars, in our customers car, get rolled at Thunderhill Raceway, coming out of Turn 9, also roll multiple times, and the bar did the job perfectly.
If you are looking for a perfect answer (and there is no perfect answer...but there are better solutions than others), then the strongest approach is to weld in the whole solution....and the more attachment points the stronger the whole unit and the stronger, the more of an impact it can withstand.

The problem/opportunity we were trying to solve w the bolt-in approach was how do you provide a significant increase in safety for a car that remains a daily driver. How do you provide a solution that is bolt-in, strong, and yet doesn't damage the original car. Our solution is the best we have seen at trying to solve that problem statement. And....if you want to go farther, you can weld in the base plates to further distribute and secure the mounting locations....then we're down to talking about force vectors and the amount of energy to be dissipated by both the car body/frame and the bar.

But, net-net, it's far better than a daily driver taken to the track without anything, including the implementation of the harness set to hold you in place.
Bruce
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PS...and, if you want a full weld in cage, we, or the many other fine shops that do this, can easily build a full weld in cage, w as many attachment points as desired or the rules will allow. Like the guys at Evosport, or BBI, or GMG, or LCON, or TCKline, TCDesign, or Impact Engineering, or ....etc Most of us have done lots of these for pure track and racing cars.
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      12-04-2010, 06:00 PM   #30
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If I end up getting this bolt-in next summer, then I think what I'd do is: weld the rear lateral bar to the car (behind the seats) and leave the rest bolt in. That way, the only "permanent" part of the bar would be the bar in back. And since that bar doesn't get in the way of the back seats and it doesn't take up very much trunk space, seems like a good compromise of safely and convenience.
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      12-20-2010, 12:55 PM   #31
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If anyone is interested, I found another pic of the roll bar. This shows the connection point behind the seats really well:

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      04-21-2011, 02:33 PM   #32
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Is it possible to use this and a 5 or 6 pt harness with the stock seats?
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      05-03-2011, 01:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Focusedintntions View Post
Is it possible to use this and a 5 or 6 pt harness with the stock seats?
BUMP THIS QUESTION... ?????
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      05-03-2011, 01:57 PM   #34
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They were using stock seats with a harness in thier car for the laguna seca event. See thier youtube video. The ability to run harnesses with stock seats has nothing to do with the harness bar, it's the headrest and structural capability of the seat that dictates that. You do know that you have to drill the floor pan and weld 2 2" steel square attatchment points for the sub straps of the harness right? Or you can run the Schroth 4pt Profi II ASM (which also can be a 5/6 point). The ASM technology is DOT approved and will work with the stock safties (airbags etc.).
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      05-03-2011, 03:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue View Post
They were using stock seats with a harness in thier car for the laguna seca event. See thier youtube video. The ability to run harnesses with stock seats has nothing to do with the harness bar, it's the headrest and structural capability of the seat that dictates that. You do know that you have to drill the floor pan and weld 2 2" steel square attatchment points for the sub straps of the harness right? Or you can run the Schroth 4pt Profi II ASM (which also can be a 5/6 point). The ASM technology is DOT approved and will work with the stock safties (airbags etc.).
HGR
what seat / harness are you running?
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      05-03-2011, 03:48 PM   #36
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Corbeau TRS's w/Schroth Profi II for me and Schroth Ralleye Cross for the passenger.
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      05-03-2011, 03:59 PM   #37
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How comfortable are the corbeau's? Do any long trips with them?
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      05-03-2011, 04:38 PM   #38
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I like them (I actually miss them, I feel like I'm in a boat now with the stocks.), but I am too tall to do a long trip in them. I'm 6'8" so when the seats are in, there's no airbags, so I have to have harnesses, that means the harness bar is in, so my seat has to sit in a proper track orientation which is slightly too uncomfortable for me to drive long distance in. But I would say if you are 6'5" or shorter, it would not be bad at all.

It only takes four bolts and a plug to remove the stock seats. I can install the race seats and harness bar/harnesses in a little more than an hour. I can remove them and install the stocks in less than an hour. So, I still drive the car with the stocks and no x-brace around town. But boy were people really staring when it was all in hahaha.

As far as the "plushness" of the seat goes, well, I'm a Honda guy at heart so take it for what it is, but I like the seats. They feel so good on the track as I am sure most racing seats would.

If you decide to get them, it's a 4-6 week wait for the floor brackets. They said I would be the first one to order E9x brackets. I asked EAS if the Macht Schnell ones would work but they couldn't tell me. So @ 289 a piece, I wasn't gonna experiment. I just fabbed my own brackets for them.
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      09-06-2011, 04:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremydgreat View Post
If anyone is interested, I found another pic of the roll bar. This shows the connection point behind the seats really well:

is this the same bar? it is the only one that shows the harness bar at the correct height to the seats.
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      09-06-2011, 05:12 PM   #40
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Yes, it is the same bar. My seats a little higher due to the way I had to make the brackets. It seems the stock seats would sit about the same though. You need floor or side mounts (without sliders) to make the seat back level with the bar. But then you lose adjustability.

BR can weld the tabs for the bar higher if you ask them to. I will be getting some more tabs mailed to me to have welded so that the bar sits higher as well.

And while the straight back harness routing is optimal, my setup is only slightly further than 45 degrees with is also acceptable. I still prefer straight back tho obviously.
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      03-09-2012, 08:07 PM   #41
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Mine is orange to match the stitching in my 1M and is being shipped next week. Can't Wait
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      03-09-2012, 08:51 PM   #42
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Mine is orange to match the stitching in my 1M and is being shipped next week. Can't Wait
awesome - please take some detailed photos of the instal. cant wait to see it
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      03-30-2012, 12:40 PM   #43
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I installed my BR bar a couple of weeks ago. Here are some pics.



If you look closely you'll see that on each side of the rear cross bar there are two holes for bolts. The guys at BR and vlkwagon (red bar above) both said that their car had stock bolts in all four holes. My car only had bolts in the top 2 bolt holes, so I'm working with Bruce and Robb to figure out what bolts I need for the lower holes.


This pic shows the drain plug that needs to be removed so that you can use the sandwich plate that comes with the bar. I ended up drilling a hole and yanking them out with the bolt/nut that comes with the bar. If I ever take the bar out I'll have to find a way to re-plug the hole...


I took the rear seats out so that I could fit my track wheels back there. It was a serious struggle to make the decision, but I've had the car for 3.5 years and had people in the back maybe 4 times, so in the end my wife and I decided to just leave them out. If we change our minds the re-install will take an hour (doesn't include the 6 hour drive from NYC to Pittsburgh, where the seat is in storage)


Without the Harness bar I can fit 3 race tires in the back seat and one in the trunk with room for my tools.


Our amazing helper:

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      03-31-2012, 09:55 PM   #44
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Wow, thanks for posting that.
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