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      05-20-2020, 12:26 AM   #67
AndyW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeo View Post
Put together a setup using the mishimoto banjo fittings, and my own DIY cooler setup. Still getting it together, but enough that I was able to go for a drive today and noticed the same thing; the new path gets hot much more rapidly than the factory path. Could this configuration be bypassing the thermostat? Need a diagram of the oil filter housing. The new oil cooler was hot to the touch and the factory cooler was almost cool to the touch.

-Joe
Are the coolers identical? If not, it will not be balanced flow for a parallel setup and the cooler with less flow resistance will get most of the load. Under high load my differences evened out with identical coolers. I don't think the top fittings bypass the thermostat, but I could be wrong.
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      05-20-2020, 11:43 PM   #68
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No, they are not identical coolers. One is stock, and the other is a Derale 6.68"x13"x2" size. It's very close to the stock size, but a little larger.
Hmmm.
Once I get it put together, I'll post up some pictures.
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      05-20-2020, 11:54 PM   #69
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AndyW I can't remember but don't all of the oil cooler lines need to be similar in length as well?

joeo Looking forward to seeing pictures of your setup!
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      05-21-2020, 01:06 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan View Post
AndyW I can't remember but don't all of the oil cooler lines need to be similar in length as well?
Yes. Key is balanced resistance to flow.
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      05-23-2020, 11:45 PM   #71
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Here is my current setup - I used a Derale oil cooler (DER-51610 at 6.8x13x2 inches). Made AN lines from stainless braided AN10, and welded a bracket up to attach the cooler to where the horns used to go. I moved the horns to the front.
I used some metal grating to make a cover for the cooler. Lots of trial and error fitting!

Horns relocated:


One of the brackets. I also mounted the cooler using some bent aluminum on the inside. I made some DIY rubber washers/insulators from some old radiator hose to isolate the cooler from some vibration.







Used two 90 degree fittings and two 90 degree tube swivel fittings. I did need to trim some of the plastic on the air tubes leading to the intake.







-Joe
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      05-24-2020, 10:14 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeo View Post
Here is my current setup - I used a Derale oil cooler (DER-51610 at 6.8x13x2 inches). Made AN lines from stainless braided AN10, and welded a bracket up to attach the cooler to where the horns used to go. I moved the horns to the front.
I used some metal grating to make a cover for the cooler. Lots of trial and error fitting!

-Joe
Nice setup. But the AN piping is bigger than stock and the cooler is likely less resistive than stock, which is likely why flow is favoring the new path.
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      05-24-2020, 05:44 PM   #73
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Thank you Andy - yes like two resistors in parallel in an electric circuit. I'm not convinced the new AN10 lines are larger than stock; they look about the same size - eyeballing anyway!



Maybe the cooler itself is less restrictive like you're saying. It is 1" thicker than the factory one. Also - the factory one has better cooling air flow than what I've done so far. So yeah - more oil flow and less airflow = hotter for new cooler. That's my guess. I need to take some temperature readings.

-Joe
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      05-24-2020, 07:22 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeo View Post
Thank you Andy - yes like two resistors in parallel in an electric circuit. I'm not convinced the new AN10 lines are larger than stock; they look about the same size - eyeballing anyway!



Maybe the cooler itself is less restrictive like you're saying. It is 1" thicker than the factory one. Also - the factory one has better cooling air flow than what I've done so far. So yeah - more oil flow and less airflow = hotter for new cooler. That's my guess. I need to take some temperature readings.

-Joe
There is also a small restrictor in one of the factory lines.
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      05-26-2020, 09:43 AM   #75
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Andy - that makes a lot of sense. Any idea where it is located?
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      05-26-2020, 10:12 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeo View Post
Andy - that makes a lot of sense. Any idea where it is located?
Check post 36 in this thread.
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      05-31-2020, 04:25 PM   #77
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Ran some seat time at summit point's main circuit on Friday - and saw just about 280 degrees max oil temperature. This is an improvement over the prior 290-295 degrees, but not as much as I would have liked. Ambient temp was about 80 degrees.
I've added some more ducting to get more air over the new cooler which I think will help some. We shall see!

-Joe
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      05-31-2020, 05:27 PM   #78
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Did you get a chance to get temperatures on the two sets of lines? I wonder if your stock one is not getting utilized due to uneven flow. Thanks for taking the time to update as well!
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      06-01-2020, 10:31 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan View Post
Did you get a chance to get temperatures on the two sets of lines? I wonder if your stock one is not getting utilized due to uneven flow. Thanks for taking the time to update as well!
This is exactly what's happening. Parallel coolers do not work unless they're exactly the same. Plumbing them in series is best practice.
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      06-01-2020, 10:50 PM   #80
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I didn't have an IR temperature probe, just my trusty hand. At those temperatures, hoses to both coolers were hot to the touch. Take that for whatever it's worth.

You are correct that the coolers should be the same size and have the same restriction to have even flow to each, however, if one is larger it should have more flow. It's very similar to two resistors in parallel. I humbly disagree with plumbing them in series being best practice.

In Carroll Smith's book 'Tune to Win':
"When using multiple heat exchangers remember that the greater the difference in temperature between the liquid to be cooled and the air that is doing the cooling, the greater will be the temperature drop across the cooler. That has two ramifications of interest to us. First, plumb multiple coolers in parallel rather than in series. Second, do not mount your oil cooler directly ahead of or behind your radiator."
If you plumb them in series, your second heat exchanger will have low efficiency since the inlet fluid temp will already be lowered. Heat exchanger efficiency is Tin-Tout/Tin-Tamb where
Tin = inlet temperature
Tout = outlet temperature
Tamb = ambient temperature

-Joe
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      06-03-2020, 09:23 AM   #81
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I don't think amg6975 is arguing against running coolers in parallel as the best solution, but rather unless you put in a lot of effort to duplicate the lines, coolers, flow, etc., then you won't see the benefits of running coolers in parallel.

Depending on the flow differential between your current two coolers, you setup could be equal to running a single upgraded cooler even though you're running two coolers. That is why I would tend to agree with amg, unless you are going to maximize the two cooler setup to make sure you can equalize the cooling efficiency, then you're probably better off running in series so that you'll utilize both coolers more effectively.

All this to be said, the decision to run which setup is completely dependent on the various parts, lines, etc. one is choosing and how they are implemented. And of course, having some data and temperature information is the best way to make that determination.
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      06-09-2020, 09:15 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeo View Post
I didn't have an IR temperature probe, just my trusty hand. At those temperatures, hoses to both coolers were hot to the touch. Take that for whatever it's worth.

You are correct that the coolers should be the same size and have the same restriction to have even flow to each, however, if one is larger it should have more flow. It's very similar to two resistors in parallel. I humbly disagree with plumbing them in series being best practice.

In Carroll Smith's book 'Tune to Win':
"When using multiple heat exchangers remember that the greater the difference in temperature between the liquid to be cooled and the air that is doing the cooling, the greater will be the temperature drop across the cooler. That has two ramifications of interest to us. First, plumb multiple coolers in parallel rather than in series. Second, do not mount your oil cooler directly ahead of or behind your radiator."
If you plumb them in series, your second heat exchanger will have low efficiency since the inlet fluid temp will already be lowered. Heat exchanger efficiency is Tin-Tout/Tin-Tamb where
Tin = inlet temperature
Tout = outlet temperature
Tamb = ambient temperature

-Joe
Yes, of course the larger the delta T between the oil temp and the ambient temp the more heat transfer you will have, but that doesn't change the fact that you're primarily only using one cooler right now.

I understand the parallel resistance analogy (I have a degree in both Electrical and Mechanical Engineering.) Flow works in the exact same way, everything has to obey the same laws of physics. You just don't know what the effective resistance of both coolers is so you have no way to quantify that how much flow each is getting. The one thing I do know is that the OEM cooler is extremely restrictive so I wouldn't count on it doing anything when paired with a nice, large, aftermarket cooler.

For what's it's worth I run identical dual coolers in series, for simplicity, and the oil comes back way cooler than it ever did running a single cooler. My car spends 90% of its time on track and this has eliminated my oil temperature issues. I don't think the oil cools as much as you think, so I don't think the second cooler loses much efficiency.
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      06-09-2020, 11:40 PM   #83
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Thanks amg6975 - was at the track this past week and yes, there is clearly a restriction in the factory cooler. I see that some have removed the factory restrictor (or whatever is underneath that metal band). Anyone have pics?

One concern I have is oil pressure - which I'm not monitoring. Placing an oil cooler in parallel could lower pressure in the engine. I used an IR temp meter to look at inlet and outlet temps on each cooler; you may be right about a series setup ending up with lower oil temps. Need to do some more testing on it. My current thought is that the oil restriction in the factory line is causing it to be even more 'unbalanced' that it would otherwise be (like a 1k resistor and a 5 ohm resistor!)

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      07-06-2020, 07:10 PM   #84
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Just another update. After adding ducting to the parallel cooler, in 90 degree heat, I was seeing a max of 280 degrees (down ~15 degrees from only the factory cooler). When it was in the low 80s, I was seeing a max of just about 270 degrees.
I was measuring oil pressure and during one turn it consistently dropped to ~20psi. I'm assuming because of oil moving away from the pickup. Hard to see from the video - 3 clips of the same corner back to back, but you can see the gauge drop when I turn left.
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      07-06-2020, 09:31 PM   #85
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what tires are you running? If you dont have a baffled oil pan I would add one right away. I always run +1 quart on the track and log oil pressure via racecapture
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      07-06-2020, 11:40 PM   #86
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I run NT01s 255/40 R17 square.
When you run +1 quart, does the electronic oil level show over full?
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      07-07-2020, 05:21 AM   #87
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Quote:
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I run NT01s 255/40 R17 square.
When you run +1 quart, does the electronic oil level show over full?
it has, I ignore it
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      07-07-2020, 11:10 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeo View Post
Just another update. After adding ducting to the parallel cooler, in 90 degree heat, I was seeing a max of 280 degrees (down ~15 degrees from only the factory cooler). When it was in the low 80s, I was seeing a max of just about 270 degrees.
I was measuring oil pressure and during one turn it consistently dropped to ~20psi. I'm assuming because of oil moving away from the pickup. Hard to see from the video - 3 clips of the same corner back to back, but you can see the gauge drop when I turn left.
Go to the n55 section on s p o o l s t r e e t and look at the accusump thread. Tons of discussion on the oil pressure drop and trying to fix it.
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