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      10-18-2017, 10:13 AM   #1
brando1
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2008 135i Track Car.

I have been looking for something to take to the track for awhile now. I was looking for something smaller, 6 speed obviously, and relatively simple. I've had plenty of Corvettes, and 2 AMG Mercedes. I was thinking about an older Porsche until i tripped into this car(listed above).
It fit the bill. Unfortunately I am not used to manuals, or turbochargers.
I got this car so I could become a better driver,and I thought it would be a fun track toy. It also helps I got it for a really good deal.
Don't ask how much.

The car has 78000 miles on it. First thing I did was get rid of the shitty tires it had. A set of Michelin PSS 10mm wider then stock. I contacted the previous owner and found out he had a dual cone intake, and a JB4 for the car. Bought those as well. I am not happy with installation of the DCI, but what can you do. It just doesn't look right in there.

So I took her out for the first track day yesterday.
This is a fun car to drive, but it goes into limp mode very quickly.
The brakes were fantastic, and thats before I put the race brake fluid I already bought, into the car. I figured I would flush it out after her first track day.

Initial faults.

1. Limp mode. She jumps into it very quickly, too quick for my taste and driving style. Looks like an oil cooler would help?
2. Understeer. I thought she would handle more neutrally.
3. Body roll. Probably need coilovers at some point, but the first two items are higher on the list.

Any input would be appeciated.
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      10-18-2017, 10:34 AM   #2
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      10-18-2017, 10:51 AM   #3
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This car in stock form is undriveable on the track, if you are a fast driver.
1. Limp mode-You need to search this forum to address the issue.
2. Understeer- can be fixed by installing camber plates, wider rims/wider tires, m3 control arms. This is a minimum to address the issue.
3. Body roll-good coilovers, bigger front sway bar, m3 rear subframe bushings.
This is just to get you started and enjoy your track days, but to really make this car going there is a lot more.
Takes a lot of $$$ to make it competitive, that's why we don't see too many of our cars in club racing.
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      10-18-2017, 11:11 AM   #4
brando1
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I'm just out there to have fun. I think any RWD, manual equipped car can be made to work.
I've seen the pros and cons of this platform, with a little bit of searching here. I'm not looking to make it a club racer, I unfortunately don't have the time for that. But I know I can make this car a little sharper. And improve my abilities at the same time.

Fast driver is subjective, but I definately pass more people then I get passed by. I'm used to taking a tuned CLS63 to the few track days in the past. The sheer horsepower fixed everything out there.
This car serves a very different purpose.
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      10-18-2017, 11:45 AM   #5
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Lots of information to help you set this up. Stock 135i are pretty ill equipped for hard driving at the track.

The issues you quickly discovered are the issues that have plagued this platform since the platform release.

Take out the JB4 and put in an oilcooler. Heatsoak is likely erasing any gains you get from the jb4. Bmw also has. pErformance power kit with an auxiliary radiator and more powerful main radiator fan . This is what the 1M's come standard with and they overheat much less.

Understeer - the cars benefit a lot from moving to a square set up. Try to fit a larger front tire set up. Many swap front fenders to 1M or N5 to allow 255 or 265's.

Suspension - do solid rear subframe bushings. Depending on what coilovers set up you go, you will want to add a sway bar. Thickness will depend on a few factors of your car / rest of suspension.
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      10-18-2017, 02:40 PM   #6
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As mentioned already, these car's go into limp mode pretty frequently on track with stock power and an additional/upgraded oil cooler is essential to prevent that. With the JB4 making more power than stock, you'll hit limp mode even faster. If you can't get an oil cooler before you next track day, I'd suggest setting it to map 0 which is just the stock map.

Another thing you may notice as you get faster on track is brake fade due to overheated pads. The rotor cooling on these cars isn't great and people have done everything from rotor/caliper swaps, to brake ducting to solve this issue. You'll have to decide which route makes the most sense for your budget and time.

Even with the issues, I think these can be really fun little cars at the track, so enjoy!
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      10-18-2017, 04:01 PM   #7
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What track was that in S. FL? (PBIR?)

If it was me; I'd look into a bigger oil-cooler like above stated. Go over the car (change fluids out, start fresh.) Get better pads and invest in some cooling modifications, and then just get a good set of street tires. From there, you can build upon experience.
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      10-18-2017, 04:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post
I was thinking about an older Porsche until i tripped into this car(listed above).
As much as I like the 1-series, I would think long and hard about whether it is worth the effort to get it truly track worthy.

That Porsche you were thinking about might be a better choice to meet your goals.

Its not too late because you don't have much money committed yet ...

If you insist though, the cone filters breathing hot air and the JB4 are likely doing you no favours. Limp mode is likely coolant on an N54, not oil, but log data to be sure.

We all thought that the car would handle more neutrally. It takes some significant effort to fix that and rear subframe bushings are an essential part of that solution.

Really, unless you delight in modifying your car (many of us do) and have a realistic view of how much it will cost in money and time to get to the car to where you want to get it, seriously consider whether you have actually chosen the right car as a starting point.
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      10-18-2017, 05:33 PM   #9
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MHD cooling tables work in the interim before you tear things apart for bigger rads and OC's. FBO car here- doesn't hit limp mode and at intermediate pace (997TT pace)
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      10-19-2017, 09:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabrahams View Post
What track was that in S. FL? (PBIR?)

If it was me; I'd look into a bigger oil-cooler like above stated. Go over the car (change fluids out, start fresh.) Get better pads and invest in some cooling modifications, and then just get a good set of street tires. From there, you can build upon experience.
Yup, Track night in America at PBIR,

Already changed all fluids, pads are brand new, and I love the Michelin PSS. Best street tire I've ever used.
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      10-19-2017, 10:07 AM   #11
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Good info guys thanks.
First things first Oil cooler. Anybody have any experience with Evolution racewerks Competition Series Oil cooler. It's not cheap but looks to be the most comprehensive.

Next, nobody mentioned the limited slip. I found when I installed one in my other car, it was the most transformative addition.
I am leaning towards a full kit with the pumpkin to help with the ease of installation.

Any opinions on the Mfactory vs Wavetrac. I used the OSGiken one in my Mercedes, and it's awesome, but I want a bolt on kit.

I know if I can put the power down better, I will enjoy the car more.

Exhaust. Currently has stock muffler with rear resonator delete. It sounds like a hive of angry bees. The car needs some balls. And NO DRONE. I don't mind loud, I hate weird resonance's.

Played around on youtube, and came up with the Berk Street Exhaust with AR downpipes.

Thoughts?
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      10-19-2017, 11:49 AM   #12
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You are certainly lucking out on advice here -- 3 Series forum would tell you to search more. I'll chime in.

The ER Competition Oil Cooler setup is definitely expensive, but it works, and bolts up, comes with everything you need. I don't like that it doesn't include a remote thermostat, meaning if you keep your stock oil theromstat, you're still starting your runs around 240*. Adding in a remote setup wouldn't be too hard. Alternatively, you can bypass the thermostat with something like the BMS Sport Oil Cooler Valve (bullshit for thermo delete.) If you don't daily drive your car, you can get away with this, but it's not ideal.

I'm building my own dual core setup to run in sequence, similar to the ER, only with a 185* remote thermostat and big -10AN line. Mine will need a few simple custom brackets to mount, and won't come with shrouds, but I have a feeling it'll match or outperform the ER and all in, I got the parts for $800.

Stock radiator is OK on this car, but I'd advise the CSF radiator. Not sure on the cost of the 1M aux kit with fan, but the CSF is bulletproof, even when your oil temps and IATs are overcooked. Over 20 minutes on Laguna Seca and my water temp never passed 230*, even with oil at 280*.

I'd go Wavetrac over MFactory. OSG and Quaife are also good. You can check out www.diffsonline.com and order a complete pumpkin to make it an easy swap. If you don't mind spending some more, you can upgrade to a 3.48 final drive vs the stock 3.08. It'll make the car feel way sportier and more lively. You'll lose some rpm on the highway though. I had a Wavetrac in my 335i and just ordered a new one with the 3.48 for the 1.

Get some track pads and good rotors / lines / fluid. The brakes look nice but they aren't really that great. Good for now though. Wait till you find your limit.

A square 17x8.5 or 18x8.5" wheel setup with 245 or 255s all around will help your cause a lot, but this should be done in conjunction with proper coilovers, camber plates (KW Clubsports come with everything), M3 arms, M3 front sway and rear subframe and diff bushings like everyone said.

If you want quicker steering you can also look out for an M3 steering rack. Just ordered one on eBay for $450. Steering will be way heavier, but more suited to track driving with a 12.5:1 ratio vs the stock 16:1. 1M came with this rack as well, only we don't have servotronic to assist with the weight at low speeds. You'll get used to it.

Good luck and have fun.
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      10-19-2017, 06:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post

1. Limp mode. She jumps into it very quickly, too quick for my taste and driving style. Looks like an oil cooler would help?
2. Understeer. I thought she would handle more neutrally.
3. Body roll. Probably need coilovers at some point, but the first two items are higher on the list.

Any input would be appeciated.
imo learning how to tune yourself will help no end with regards limp modes.
paying "professional" tuners who make a living off straight pulls and dyno runs that provide locked maps will eventually drive you nuts. there are so many small gremlins that will pop up over time, being able to find them yourself will help no end.

if you stick with it, inevitably you will end up with some kind of external oil cooling system.

front end camber will help.
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      10-19-2017, 07:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post
Good info guys thanks.
First things first Oil cooler. Anybody have any experience with Evolution racewerks Competition Series Oil cooler. It's not cheap but looks to be the most comprehensive.

Next, nobody mentioned the limited slip. I found when I installed one in my other car, it was the most transformative addition.
I am leaning towards a full kit with the pumpkin to help with the ease of installation.

Any opinions on the Mfactory vs Wavetrac. I used the OSGiken one in my Mercedes, and it's awesome, but I want a bolt on kit.

I know if I can put the power down better, I will enjoy the car more.

Exhaust. Currently has stock muffler with rear resonator delete. It sounds like a hive of angry bees. The car needs some balls. And NO DRONE. I don't mind loud, I hate weird resonance's.

Played around on youtube, and came up with the Berk Street Exhaust with AR downpipes.

Thoughts?
for a daily driver with occasional track work those torsen diffs are ok. if i had my time again i would get a clutch plate for track use. if you go from clutch type to torsen on track i think you will be disappointed, particularly if your not fond of under steer.

if you dont want drone resonance make sure you keep something in the dual mid-pipe section. if you delete your cats the lengths of those two dual sections is perfect to resonant 3 cylinders each. otherwise join them at the downpipes and go single back.
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      12-21-2017, 08:39 AM   #15
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Parts finally starting to arrive.
Quaife limited slip from diffs online
Ar downpipes.
Dual oil cooler should be here in a couple of days.
m3 rear subframe bushings arriving in a couple of days.

Still debating which exhaust to get, I don't care how loud it is, but I hate drone.
Probably going to wait to get wheels, until I kill the new PSS tires I bought. Already done 2 track days, and the dreaded limp mode is killing me. I've decided to wait to do another one until the parts are installed. She runs great until it happens.

My first session out I made it almost 15 minutes before it felt like the turbos gave out. The second session I made it two laps. Had fun chasing around a z4 with all new m3 suspension bits. He was quick in the corners.
I also seem to get a check engine light quite frequently. It resets every time I recycle the car. I think it may have something to do with intake, something around where the blow off valve would be. I noticed it was zip tied on when I messed around with the intake. Thinking about buying one of the fancy blow off valves.

I think my drive to the track isnt helping my tempertures either. I drive around 80 miles to get there, and I have a challenging time driving slow.

Cant wait to see how it drives after round 1.
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      02-05-2018, 07:58 PM   #16
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You should be happy with the twin oil coolers. I run a 2008 135i manual in Australia in races of up to 12 laps in temperatures around 104F and the limp mode problem is totally gone. I did later fit the larger CFS radiator but only to give added protection on really hot days when the car may be gridded up for long periods while waiting for track clearance activities to be completed. The ER comp oil coolers are expensive but they have been one of those set and forget mods.
My car runs a square setup using a second pair of 18x8.5" factory rims on the front. It is a good interim solution for me as imported wheels are very expensive in Australia.
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      02-05-2018, 08:15 PM   #17
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So far so good.
A lot less check engine lights. Also added an active autowerks charge pipe. Thing sounds wicked. Figured out which map and how to use the jb4. Also added a fmic while they installed the oil cooler.
The car is definitely running stronger.
Back on the track next week for track night in America and next month the big one.
Sebring for the first time.
Most likely will need new tires by then. Looking at the apex ec7 with another set of Michelin pss.
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      03-07-2018, 09:31 AM   #18
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Two more track nights under my belt.
Understeer, and brakes are now the problem.
Added Turner solid rear subframe bushings, only have the back two installed, what a pain in the ass of a job. The car feels substantially tighter. Originally bought the m3 bushings, but after some installation problems, my tech said just get the real ones.....
I need to sort out the front end, I am killing the drivers side front tire. And these are good tires. I ordered the Apex EC-7 wheels during the group buy, and now I am waiting. I'm thinking about a more aggressive tire then the PSS once I get them.
Brakes.
Big brake kits cost almost as much as I paid for the car. That's insane
I'm thinking about ordering the Stainless steel brake lines and going with a track/ street pad.
Hawk is what I am leaning toward. I know they are not the favorite of this forum, but I want to enjoy driving the car to and from the track, and around town.
Dropped 3 seconds off of my best lap time at PBIR.
Down to 1:38, when I drive it right.
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      03-07-2018, 10:06 AM   #19
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Absolutely need camber plates (not Dinan) if you don't already. Consider moving to 200 treadwear extreme performance tires and ditching PSS. PSS will never hold up to quicker pace and will quickly be the weakest link.
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      03-07-2018, 11:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post
Two more track nights under my belt.
Understeer, and brakes are now the problem.
Added Turner solid rear subframe bushings, only have the back two installed, what a pain in the ass of a job. The car feels substantially tighter. Originally bought the m3 bushings, but after some installation problems, my tech said just get the real ones.....
I need to sort out the front end, I am killing the drivers side front tire. And these are good tires. I ordered the Apex EC-7 wheels during the group buy, and now I am waiting. I'm thinking about a more aggressive tire then the PSS once I get them.
Brakes.
Big brake kits cost almost as much as I paid for the car. That's insane
I'm thinking about ordering the Stainless steel brake lines and going with a track/ street pad.
Hawk is what I am leaning toward. I know they are not the favorite of this forum, but I want to enjoy driving the car to and from the track, and around town.
Dropped 3 seconds off of my best lap time at PBIR.
Down to 1:38, when I drive it right.
Bend your heat shields out on the front calipers so they scoop air... all the way to the control arm. Or, get some brake ducting. Getting heat under control and running some REAL race pads will be far more beneficial than dropping $4k on a BBK.
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      03-07-2018, 02:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by brando1 View Post
Two more track nights under my belt.
Understeer, and brakes are now the problem.
Added Turner solid rear subframe bushings, only have the back two installed, what a pain in the ass of a job. The car feels substantially tighter. Originally bought the m3 bushings, but after some installation problems, my tech said just get the real ones.....
I need to sort out the front end, I am killing the drivers side front tire. And these are good tires. I ordered the Apex EC-7 wheels during the group buy, and now I am waiting. I'm thinking about a more aggressive tire then the PSS once I get them.
Brakes.
Big brake kits cost almost as much as I paid for the car. That's insane
I'm thinking about ordering the Stainless steel brake lines and going with a track/ street pad.
Hawk is what I am leaning toward. I know they are not the favorite of this forum, but I want to enjoy driving the car to and from the track, and around town.
Dropped 3 seconds off of my best lap time at PBIR.
Down to 1:38, when I drive it right.
Bend your heat shields out on the front calipers so they scoop air... all the way to the control arm. Or, get some brake ducting. Getting heat under control and running some REAL race pads will be far more beneficial than dropping $4k on a BBK.
I would disagree if you can find a good used front BBK you will save a ton of money on pads / fluid alone.
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      03-07-2018, 03:40 PM   #22
brando1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Bend your heat shields out on the front calipers so they scoop air... all the way to the control arm. Or, get some brake ducting. Getting heat under control and running some REAL race pads will be far more beneficial than dropping $4k on a BBK.
I'm going to try to the heat shields. This is the first time in 5 outings I cooked the brakes, and pads are a must.

I don't think I can do the brake ducts, pretty sure my overkill dual oil coolers could get in the way.
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