M Spark Plugs

[________]

Anyone running M plugs on their N55?

Wondering if there are benefits in running the M plugs especially when tuned.

Cheers!

[tock172]

You're referring to the S55 spark plugs, Bosch ZMR5TPP330, correct? Consensus on other forums suggests they run a bit cooler, which would be preferential for tuned engines compared to running the factory ZR5TPP33S.

Unfortunately I just had my plugs changed recently, otherwise I wouldn't mind picking up a set and trying it.

[________]

Originally Posted by tock172

You're referring to the S55 spark plugs, Bosch ZMR5TPP330, correct? Consensus on other forums suggests they run a bit cooler, which would be preferential for tuned engines compared to running the factory ZR5TPP33S.

Unfortunately I just had my plugs changed recently, otherwise I wouldn't mind picking up a set and trying it.

Exactly.

Since I tuned, wouldn't mind being a little safer.
And the M2 has the same engine and uses those, so I figured they'd be good for this application (same engine).

I might give them a try, but that's why I'm asking for some background experience.

When you say consensus, are there threads about it? Couldn't find any.

Thanks!

[tock172]

Something to note about Bosch spark plug part numbers; the third digit indicates the heat range. Note that both of the plugs reference contain 5 in their part number, so they actually operate in roughly the same heat range. I'm sure there are other differences, but Bosch only shows specs for the ZR5TPP33S.

Here are the other threads I ran across: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1167081, https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1509135

Some other info: https://www.boschsparkplugs.net/lear...or-hotter-plug

Edit: Found some more information. One person in this thread says they're the same plugs but with an M logo added to the ceramic portion, according to Bosch. Contrastingly, when I look up images of the two plugs, the ZMR seems to have a slightly different electrode than the ZR. The BMW parts catalog lists both as 'high-power' plugs.

And here's a thread where some X5 M owners are choosing the ZR5TPP33 over the ZMR5TPP33 to save money.

FWIW, it looks like Bosch may have updated the ZMR5TPP33 to the ZMR5TPP330, and the ZR5TPP33 to the ZR5TPP33S. They don't look identical as they used to. Looks like no one really has a cut and dry answer on this.

[________]

Pretty cool... it makes sense for them to be the same part, but with an M logo. And the M is 23 bucks, the regular is 10.
Might be worthwhile for the M cars to use non-M plugs actually.

I found people using the NGK ones from the N20, which is in the heat range 8 (I remember, back in the day, NGK range is inverted, so higher is colder, not sure they're still inverted).
Might give them a shot, although they're pricey as well.

Edit: found the cross reference table and it's exactly that, NGK 7 is the equivalent to the Bosch 5, so the 8 from the N20 will be a Bosch 4.

[tock172]

I heard the same thing about running the N20 NGK plugs. I run NGK plugs in my E30 and they've been trouble free.

[________]

Originally Posted by tock172

I heard the same thing about running the N20 NGK plugs. I run NGK plugs in my E30 and they've been trouble free.

NGK is obviously good, I thought even better than Bosch. They're standard everywhere, N52 uses them, N20, etc.
My concern would be with how it works being a little colder. I might give them a shot in the summer.

[tock172]

Yes, NGK is another leading auto part supplier, but from Japan instead of Germany. I think it all comes down to preference. I have no problem running whatever works well in my cars. My E30 runs the NGK equivalent to the Bosch WR9LS, and I have a set of Bosch plugs ready to install in my Civic.

Just for comparison sake, here are the photos the different plugs. Notice how the electrodes of the first three are all identical, while the last one, the ZMR5TPP330, has a narrower electrode base.

View post on imgur.com

Interestingly enough, Bimmerworld seems to encourage use of the ZMR5TPP330; the current M plug with the different electrode.

[________]

Originally Posted by tock172

Yes, NGK is another leading auto part supplier, but from Japan instead of Germany. I think it all comes down to preference. I have no problem running whatever works well in my cars. My E30 runs the NGK equivalent to the Bosch WR9LS, and I have a set of Bosch plugs ready to install in my Civic.

Just for comparison sake, here are the photos the different plugs. Notice how the electrodes of the first three are all identical, while the last one, the ZMR5TPP330, has a narrower electrode base.

View post on imgur.com

Interestingly enough, Bimmerworld seems to encourage use of the ZMR5TPP330, which has a different electrode on its latest version.

Sure, but cars are all that, made from parts from all over. Lots of parts are Japanese in these cars, plugs and coils are just a few of them.

I could not see a difference in the plugs in the pictures.

What I find weird is everyone claiming the M plugs to be colder. Maybe M5 means something different than just 5?

I could not find bimmerworld recommending any plug, where did you see that?

[tock172]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

Sure, but cars are all that, made from parts from all over. Lots of parts are Japanese in these cars, plugs and coils are just a few of them.

I could not see a difference in the plugs in the pictures.

What I find weird is everyone claiming the M plugs to be colder. Maybe M5 means something different than just 5?

I could not find bimmerworld recommending any plug, where did you see that?

Yes and no. German cars, like BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, etc typically use Bosch, Hella, Pierburg, Valeo, Mann, Mahle, Continental and other parts made in Europe, while it's more common to see components from companies like Denso, NGK or Aisin on Japanese vehicles like Honda or Toyota. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, like modern plug plugs, for example. Auto glass is another example. A Chinese supplier surpassed Saint Gobain a few years ago as the largest firm in the industry, and a number of BMWs and other cars now run Chinese glass from the factory.

I linked the Bimmerworld page in my last post that you quoted, but here's the direct URL: https://www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/I...M5-F13-M6.html

The photo below demonstrates what I'm referring to as far as the electrodes are concerned. Note how the ZMR5TPP330's electrode is narrow on the bottom portion, while the ZR5TPP33S's appears larger in diameter. Source: https://goo.gl/MHVB7P

[________]

Originally Posted by tock172

Yes and no. German cars, like BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, etc typically use Bosch, Hella, Pierburg, Valeo, Mann, Mahle, Continental and other parts made in Europe, while it's more common to see components from companies like Denso, NGK or Aisin on Japanese vehicles like Honda or Toyota. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, like modern plug plugs, for example. Auto glass is another example. A Chinese supplier surpassed Saint Gobain a few years ago as the largest firm in the industry, and a number of BMWs and other cars now run Chinese glass from the factory.

I linked the Bimmerworld page in my last post that you quoted, but here's the direct URL: https://www.bimmerworld.com/Engine/I...M5-F13-M6.html

The photo below demonstrates what I'm referring to as far as the electrodes are concerned. Note how the ZMR5TPP330's electrode is narrow on the bottom portion, while the ZR5TPP33S's appears larger in diameter. Source: https://goo.gl/MHVB7P

I don't know, to me NGK was the default supplier of OE plugs for BMW, but BMW has been using a mix of NGK and Bosch lately. My cars are NGK and Bosch (N20 and N55).

I see the difference now between the M plugs and the ones in the 135i engine. I'll probably give the M ones a shot. Although I don't know why they have a shorter life-expectancy... less than half on the non-M engine.

I'm not heavily tuned so stock plugs work for me. I'm torn between trying these M plugs and the stock ones. Not sure what benefits one provides over the other.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

I don't know, to me NGK was the default supplier of OE plugs for BMW, but BMW has been using a mix of NGK and Bosch lately. My cars are NGK and Bosch (N20 and N55).

These days, it's common to see both. Go back 20 or 30 years, and you'll see the main plugs that appear in BMW part diagrams are all Bosch--that being said, I went for the NGK's on my E30 325e as they were cheaper and people seemed to prefer them over the Bosch alternative...and being a weirdo, I then went with Bosch for my Honda

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

I see the difference now between the M plugs and the ones in the 135i engine. I'll probably give the M ones a shot. Although I don't know why they have a shorter life-expectancy... less than half on the non-M engine.

I'm not heavily tuned so stock plugs work for me. I'm torn between trying these M plugs and the stock ones. Not sure what benefits one provides over the other.

That's a good question as well. I saw that the service interval for the M plugs is 25k miles. My 135i had the BMW PPK tune on it when I bought it, and the software comes with a sticker to mount under the hood for a shorter spark plug interval (45k miles). My guess is the M plugs have a shorter interval because they're being used in more powerful engines.

What tune are you running? My car has Dinan Stage 2. Like I said in the beginning of the thread, I wouldn't mind trying the M plugs, but I literally just had mine changed a earlier this year with the factory ZR5TPP33S units.


At the end of the day, I really wish Bosch had a product page for the ZMR5TPP330 as they do for the ZR5TPP33S. That would make this decision much easier.

[________]

Originally Posted by tock172

These days, it's common to see both. Go back 20 or 30 years, and you'll see the main plugs that appear in BMW part diagrams are all Bosch--that being said, I went for the NGK's on my E30 325e as they were cheaper and people seemed to prefer them over the Bosch alternative...and being a weirdo, I then went with Bosch for my Honda

That's a good question as well. I saw that the service interval for the M plugs is 25k miles. My 135i had the BMW PPK tune on it when I bought it, and the software comes with a sticker to mount under the hood for a shorter spark plug interval (45k miles). My guess is the M plugs have a shorter interval because they're being used in more powerful engines.

What tune are you running? My car has Dinan Stage 2. Like I said in the beginning of the thread, I wouldn't mind trying the M plugs, but I literally just had mine changed a earlier this year with the factory ZR5TPP33S units.

I just flashed MHD 1+. I only have a FMIC (hate catless and do not have high flow ones). I run 91 octane

I thought about that too, that the higher pressure degrades the plugs more quickly. Maybe that is why...

Since my car is now pushing similar numbers to the M2, I thought using the plugs BMW uses on the M2 would be a good call. I mean, why did they decide on using those plugs on the same engine, but different car and tune...

I'll probably give them a shot some day, since I just tuned I figured my plugs would give soon, maybe next year.

[Matticus91]

Didn't get to read the whole thread but I run the 1-step colder NGKs from BMS and they've been good.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

I just flashed MHD 1+. I only have a FMIC (hate catless and do not have high flow ones). I run 91 octane

I thought about that too, that the higher pressure degrades the plugs more quickly. Maybe that is why...

Since my car is now pushing similar numbers to the M2, I thought using the plugs BMW uses on the M2 would be a good call. I mean, why did they decide on using those plugs on the same engine, but different car and tune...

I'll probably give them a shot some day, since I just tuned I figured my plugs would give soon, maybe next year.

So we're in a pretty similar situation then, and I share your thoughts about the M2's N55 running the same plugs. If I keep my car long enough to replace my plugs again, I'll probably go for the M ones.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by tock172

These days, it's common to see both. Go back 20 or 30 years, and you'll see the main plugs that appear in BMW part diagrams are all Bosch--that being said, I went for the NGK's on my E30 325e as they were cheaper and people seemed to prefer them over the Bosch alternative...and being a weirdo, I then went with Bosch for my Honda

I replaced the Japanese plugs in my Swedish car with the Japanese motor with the German (Bosch) plugs, and I replaced the German plugs my German car (128i) with the Japanese plugs.

I think the NGKs in the Yamaha motor were smoother. But that is the Butt dyno. I read enough and bought the NGKs for the 128i and pulled Bosch out.

Count me in as a weirdo.

[________]

Originally Posted by Tommm

I replaced the Japanese plugs in my Swedish car with the Japanese motor with the German (Bosch) plugs, and I replaced the German plugs my German car (128i) with the Japanese plugs.

I think the NGKs in the Yamaha motor were smoother. But that is the Butt dyno. I read enough and bought the NGKs for the 128i and pulled Bosch out.

Count me in as a weirdo.

You're not a weirdo.
NGK is the plug BMW puts on your car from factory. The previous owner of your car was the "weirdo" that put Bosch plugs in it.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

You're not a weirdo.
NGK is the plug BMW puts on your car from factory. The previous owner of your car was the "weirdo" that put Bosch plugs in it.

They were original. I bought it at 8 years old with 32k miles. I had the service records, no spark plugs. go figya!

[________]

Originally Posted by Tommm

They were original. I bought it at 8 years old with 32k miles. I had the service records, no spark plugs. go figya!

So they had a BMW inscription on them?
very weird.
I changed the plugs myself, it wouldn't show up on any service record...

[tock172]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

So they had a BMW inscription on them?
very weird.
I changed the plugs myself, it wouldn't show up on any service record...

Early 128i's like Tommm's came with Bosch plugs originally, before the NGK units superseded them in 2009.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=12_1417

[________]

Originally Posted by tock172

Early 128i's like Tommm's came with Bosch plugs originally, before the NGK units superseded them in 2009.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=12_1417

LOL... They're messing with us.


The way I read it it could either come with NGK or Bosch until 2009.

My 07 328i came with NGK.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

LOL... They're messing with us.