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      04-09-2009, 08:28 AM   #23
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Other than acceleration, the 1-series is not competing with an evo or an STi... Those two are econoboxes turned into high-performance machines. The 1-series has a pedigree of basis from some of the most excellent vehicles on the road.

One can still call an E46 excellent... An impreza, maybe it's very good... a lancer? ummm...

Way different pedigree.

Want boy racer looks, buy an evo or Sti... Great performers, but too gimmicky for me.

As for the 4 vs. 6, it should be realized that high output, small engines that can have performance features "turned off" is the way of the future. Fuel isnt getting any cheaper, and just wait, soon enough it will be at $4-5/gallon again. Advanced materials to make cars smaller, lighter and just as safe is the name of the game now. Similarly for engines... Small engines that can more efficiently extract the energy from fuel is the name of the game.

Nobody making most of these decisions care about what some group thinks about the exhaust note of an engine. And, in the end, it is inconsequential. Most uninformed buyers just merely look at numbers like HP, 0-60, etc., and pick what is bigger, faster, etc. The only time when they choose the smaller number is on price. if you can show same output and higher MPG figures, you have a win on multiple levels.

Remember, what is optimum to a group like this is not necessarily optimum to the group of mindless idiots that make up the general population. Marketing people don't have one ounce of technical know-how to them, and spout off BS, which the public accepts. Its all about what is perceived to be best to sell the most.

And Im not bashing a 4cyl... I'd think longer about it, because longevity-wise, the more power-dense you are, the more risk you take for premature failure and higher lifecycle cost. Doesnt mean there arent some bona-fide advantages...
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      04-09-2009, 10:34 AM   #24
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BMW really know how to make engines. Who am I to doubt them their ability to work a twin turbo 4cyl? Bavarian Motor Works. As long as their is a blue propellor on the hood, not many will care. The 318ti would've faired much better if it didnt look bargain basement.
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      04-09-2009, 10:49 AM   #25
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Most people seem to forget that the original E30 M3 was a 4-cylinder.
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      04-09-2009, 01:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Most people seem to forget that the original E30 M3 was a 4-cylinder.
...good point...

I for one applaud automakers who put smaller, more powerful engines in cars. Here's hoping it rev's to more than 8K rpms!
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      04-09-2009, 03:31 PM   #27
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Here is a link with the complete test and some photos of the comparsion between 135i vs. SLK vs. Boxster (of course in german... but you can also just watch the photos )

http://www.autozeitung.de/vergleichs...rcedes-slk-350
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      04-09-2009, 03:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
Want boy racer looks, buy an evo or Sti... Great performers, but too gimmicky for me.
Those are too gimmicky?

I realize that any of these cars can be optioned at varioius levels, but to say the EVO or STi are gimmicky is not taking an honest look at the standard and optional JUNK on the 1 series. Yes I said junk, half this stuff is gonna be a nightmare down the road and sometimes it has shown to be iffy in very new cars.

I agree, they do look boy racer, I had a 2006 STi and hated that stupid wing, but the rest of the car was decent.

The 1 has-

Headlights that turn

Hill holder

Lets not even get into an iDrive discussion

Comfort access

ELSD

Electronic turn signals

Power everything seats

Enough chimes and warnings to compete with a pipe organ

No dipstick

Auto maintenance indicator

Auto rain sensor

Dual tone exhaust
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      04-09-2009, 09:44 PM   #29
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I agree with you. My point was that things like the huge wing, hood scoop, etc., etc., while potentially functional on the track, are more like gimmicks on these cars, since 99% of the time, they are only used on the street, and at best, raced from a red light.

Why else can you get an OZ rallye lancer? Because the wing and alloy wheels make you think that your car is fast, especially if yellow... A huge wing and something that gives the concept of being into racing, is a gimmick more often than not, even if it does have AWD and a great engine under the hood, IMO.

I guess my comment was more about having subtle looks and god performance, not trying to look the part too hard, when chances are the extras arent going to be used.
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      04-09-2009, 11:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB135i View Post
Those are too gimmicky?

I realize that any of these cars can be optioned at varioius levels, but to say the EVO or STi are gimmicky is not taking an honest look at the standard and optional JUNK on the 1 series. Yes I said junk, half this stuff is gonna be a nightmare down the road and sometimes it has shown to be iffy in very new cars.

I agree, they do look boy racer, I had a 2006 STi and hated that stupid wing, but the rest of the car was decent.

The 1 has-

Headlights that turn

Hill holder

Lets not even get into an iDrive discussion

Comfort access

ELSD

Electronic turn signals

Power everything seats

Enough chimes and warnings to compete with a pipe organ

No dipstick

Auto maintenance indicator

Auto rain sensor

Dual tone exhaust
All those listed features are useless to a real car enthuasiast.(Their good to sell cars....Perfect for the average Bmw owner who usually buys the car to impress other people)
For the one that found the TT-RS not appealing because it has a 5 cylinder engine.....listen to that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsMQR...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbI5v...eature=related
Hell even new Rabbits sound wicked


I could settle for a lightweight 1er 1400kg 320 hp N/A,LSD no frills for 10k more than a 135. Honestly those vintage bimmers seem to be more and more appealing (Z4M coupe, E46 M3, E39 M5). I love my ///M's with torqueless NA engines that can rev to the moon. The enthuasiast best bet is to get one of the new Disposable BMW as a daily(new models) and have a nice vintage ///M in the garage to enjoy what real driving. I love the car as a daily but as a toy it sucks...I drove an Elise 1 week after I bought my barebones 1er(M-Sport only) and man that was raw...so does the E46 M3....the E9X M's are disposable(might not be since they will be the last high reving N/A V8 engine offered before we get forced to get those F/I M's ......then after that it will be Hybrid M's)
....All that being said my 135I is like driving a mustang they spin 3rd gear on the highway but no fun in high RPM's so I expect that the new M's will go that way too since theyll be F/I.
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Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      04-10-2009, 01:47 PM   #31
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this is everything i could have ever asked for. although the unfortunate responses here with regard to excessive 4 cylinder contempt are exactly the reason this wont be coming over, which i truly hope is proven wrong. although if gasoline prices rise quickly enough, this is exactly the type of vehicle performance enthusiasts will be clamoring for. like it or not, the current (GROWING) rate of energy consumption we get through fossil fuels is not ecologically sustainable. be glad to have lived in a time when it didnt matter. question your definition of "automotive performance." 3,700lb V8 M3 or lotus exige? i would give anything to be able to buy a 2009 BMW E30 M3, and this is it - only better. i really really like the styling (if it even ends up anything like that.. is that a hood scoop or bulge? TMIC really? i guess HIGH rev - HIGH flow, short path?) and a focus on 50-50 weight distribution, rear wheel drive, weight savings, stiff chassis.. this is everything i could have ever asked for. go efficient dynamics. FTMFW.
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      04-12-2009, 05:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aesthetect View Post
this is everything i could have ever asked for. although the unfortunate responses here with regard to excessive 4 cylinder contempt are exactly the reason this wont be coming over, which i truly hope is proven wrong. although if gasoline prices rise quickly enough, this is exactly the type of vehicle performance enthusiasts will be clamoring for. like it or not, the current (GROWING) rate of energy consumption we get through fossil fuels is not ecologically sustainable. be glad to have lived in a time when it didnt matter. question your definition of "automotive performance." 3,700lb V8 M3 or lotus exige? i would give anything to be able to buy a 2009 BMW E30 M3, and this is it - only better. i really really like the styling (if it even ends up anything like that.. is that a hood scoop or bulge? TMIC really? i guess HIGH rev - HIGH flow, short path?) and a focus on 50-50 weight distribution, rear wheel drive, weight savings, stiff chassis.. this is everything i could have ever asked for. go efficient dynamics. FTMFW.
I dont mind 4 cylinder japanese cars but 4 cylinder euro...well lets say theyve never been as good japanese engine(b18c,b16a,k20,ej20,sr20det, 4a-ge, F20C )just to name a few. The euro best 4 cyl so far have been the vw 16V and 1.8T and theyve never been as fun and efficient as the japanese. Ive own quite a few vw-audi from 2.slow to stage 3(BT )1.8T....(Ive been a japanese guy before that )...I have to admit Ive never been fond of the M3 S14 engine....4 cylinder euro just lack character IMO. Bmw could make a small 2.5 I6(8500 rpm redline) with 300 hp and cut car's baby fat. Id dont care about hp its all about how theyre delivered.
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Originally Posted by corneredbeast
An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      04-12-2009, 07:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbynoway View Post
To me it seems BMW is going backwards by using a 4 cylinder motor.
Whats with the bonnet scoop? Im not a fan of them. They usally put the inter-warmer there when it is better to have them upfront.


It's not a scoop, it's a bulge just like on the current M3.
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      04-13-2009, 11:05 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB135i View Post
I realize that any of these cars can be optioned at varioius levels, but to say the EVO or STi are gimmicky is not taking an honest look at the standard and optional JUNK on the 1 series. Yes I said junk, half this stuff is gonna be a nightmare down the road and sometimes it has shown to be iffy in very new cars.

The 1 has-

1. Headlights that turn

2. Hill holder

3. Lets not even get into an iDrive discussion

4. Comfort access

5. ELSD

6. Electronic turn signals

7. Power everything seats

8. Enough chimes and warnings to compete with a pipe organ

9. No dipstick

10. Auto maintenance indicator

11. Auto rain sensor

12. Dual tone exhaust
The key word you chose is: "Optional Junk". You can (and most people do) opt for none of items 3, 4, 7, just as I did. Items 1, 2, and 11 are not even worth mentioning, in fact one can argue those are advancement in engineering Asian import cars just don't incorporate. Chime-wise, agree, there are a good amount of such, but you can have your dealer disable them (e.g. frost warning, even belts if you chat him up good). Auto maintenance indicator is not a bad thing, most of us here are aficionados and we don't need it of course, but don't feel there is harm of having it, ditto for the oil dip stick (does look weird not haviing one, I admit).

At the end of the day, you have to realize you are buying a BMW, not an import that is desperately trying to emulate a car that sets the standards in its category. There is no bargain basement pricing on any BMW, no such thing as a 'bargain' or stripped down BMW, if there were, it would dilute the brand. Even something little as a 1-series is a true car, not a soap dish which many cars in its formal category feel like (not necessarily implying such for the STi or Evo, but the latter are def targetting a diff demographic and age group).
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      04-13-2009, 07:13 PM   #35
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Keep your money in your pocket..
Next gen M3 will be TT inline 6. Its already been announced.. And no, it wont be related to N54..
As for next Gen 1, rumors go that hard core Supersport model will be TT 4 and the 135iS will keep the updated (326ps) N54 engine..


Quote:
Originally Posted by zbladejr View Post

As to issues with next gen M3 - my money's on the V8 twin turbo tuned to ridiculous standards and a price nearing $90K - that would then be a true 911 Turbo fighter, with a difference!

I'll take mine in white with the carbon roof. Until then 135i will work just fine - artist dream's of 1M notwithstanding.

Agree with comment on sound of 4 cylinder.....we'll see....I mean hear.
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      04-13-2009, 07:15 PM   #36
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I really hope u r kiddin about advantage of ELSD in 1 series..
STI has 2 REAL LSDs, front and rear.. Thats a HUGE advantage in my book. HUGE!
EVO has better seats than 1 series, it has RECAROs that will hold you...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JB135i View Post
Those are too gimmicky?

I realize that any of these cars can be optioned at varioius levels, but to say the EVO or STi are gimmicky is not taking an honest look at the standard and optional JUNK on the 1 series. Yes I said junk, half this stuff is gonna be a nightmare down the road and sometimes it has shown to be iffy in very new cars.

I agree, they do look boy racer, I had a 2006 STi and hated that stupid wing, but the rest of the car was decent.

The 1 has-

Headlights that turn

Hill holder

Lets not even get into an iDrive discussion

Comfort access

ELSD

Electronic turn signals

Power everything seats

Enough chimes and warnings to compete with a pipe organ

No dipstick

Auto maintenance indicator

Auto rain sensor

Dual tone exhaust
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      04-13-2009, 07:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
I really hope u r kiddin about advantage of ELSD in 1 series..
STI has 2 REAL LSDs, front and rear.. Thats a HUGE advantage in my book. HUGE!
EVO has better seats than 1 series, it has RECAROs that will hold you...
Did you even read his post?
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      04-13-2009, 07:40 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbynoway View Post
To me it seems BMW is going backwards by using a 4 cylinder motor.
Whats with the bonnet scoop? Im not a fan of them. They usally put the inter-warmer there when it is better to have them upfront.
The bonnet scoop might be for the intercooler. Relocating it there would allow for a good size oil cooler to take its place in the lower front valance.
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      04-13-2009, 07:50 PM   #39
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Yes, he had 2006 STi..



Quote:
Originally Posted by scorcherjf View Post
Did you even read his post?
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      04-13-2009, 10:12 PM   #40
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well reread again until you see the word junk
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