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      10-15-2012, 12:28 AM   #1
JetBlackE46
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Thumbs down Unethical Vendor - BMS (Burger Motorsports bad review)

***UPDATE***

As of this morning (10/17/12) they are once again using my install photo after taking it down briefly. I guess they don't have a good install pic of their own. This time I have reported them to eBay. **UPDATE** eBay must've notifed them and they are now back to thier own poor quality photo.



To recap since the BMS's response is banned. They basically are not admitting fault. And he keeps gong off on a tangent saying that I think I invented the clutch stop when I clearly never said that. What I did invent was the first “easy to install adjustable E90 clutch stop”.

With regards to the use of my photos, he claims that it was his webmasters fault. Why would a webmaster post pictures of my clutch stop when you swear you created it on your own. If you did make it one day at home depot, wouldn't you give pictures to the webmaster to post? Afterall....how can a webmaster post pictures of something that didn't exist until you just put it together? Makes no sense to me....but I guess it does to some.

For those who love BMS, more power to you. Keep at it.

I've informed the public of my situation and they can judge for themselves. The pictures are worth a thousand words.

There's nothing else I expect from a Company like them.

I'm happy to be a part of such a good BMW community. Thanks for the support and understanding.



*** EDIT UPDATE***

BMS has removed my pictures from their listing. For those still interested, here are the archived listings for you to judge. Thanks to all those who support me.

My listing:



Their Listings:







Hello, my name is Nelson and I’ve been an avid BMW enthusiast for many years now. A few years ago I saw that many E90 manual transmissions owners wanted an easy to install clutch stop for their vehicles. I was able to design and develop such a product after many months of R&D. I began to sell these clutch stops on eBay (ID: pickyeater334) as a hobby. I pride myself on selling a quality product and giving each customer the same service I would expect as a fellow BMW enthusiast. If you’ve dealt with me before, I thank you and I’m sure you can attest to both the quality of my design and to my prompt service.

BMS – not a BIMMERPOST sponsor, but a company I once considered “reputable” has stolen the pictures in my listing and called it their own. I assume they’ve copied my design exactly.

Here’s a link to my eBay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E9X-BMW-CLUT...09578a&vxp=mtr

Here’s a link to the BMS listing using my pictures:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMS-Clutch-S...c0b0b5&vxp=mtr

The worse part of it is that, BMS had first made a copy cat clutch stop (and also stole my install pictures) a year ago and called my design inferior as part of their marketing campaign. But now they’re marketing my design as more “sturdy” and only selling it on eBay and undercutting me on price.

I think it’s crazy for a vendor to copy someone else’s product with something inferior and call it better. Then when customers realize that the original (designed by me) is in fact superior, they go ahead and copy it exact and now say what they’re selling is great. Is it all about $$$ and what they’re saying is all marketing BS?

Here’s a link to their first copy cat clutch stop by BMS:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-SHORT-TH...1fcbaa&vxp=mtr

It’s basically the same design as mine but they used rubber adjustment shims instead of metal. I’m sure many of you have purchased the BMS stopper and are happy with it and that’s great. After all it is based on my design. I’m not going to get into it here but if you search you’ll find that users do in fact find my design with the metal adjustment shims to be more solid feeling or complain that they didn’t feel much of a difference when they installed the BMS one. Many have switched over to my stopper after trying the BMS one for several months. I’ve been told they wish they knew about my original one first.

If BMS reads this and decides to delete or edit their listings, it’s ok because I’ve already archived those pages. To me it’s pretty shady business practice. I’ve already contacted them and expressed my concerns but they basically said so what and they had no knowledge of using my pictures.

The “right” thing to do would be for them to stop selling these clutch stops and stop using my pictures.
I just want my fellow enthusiasts to know the type of unethical behavior this particular vendor is capable of.

BMS is welcome to join in this thread to say they didn't copy my design and didn't have any knowledge of using my pictures as part of their promotional materials.

Last edited by JetBlackE46; 10-17-2012 at 09:56 AM..
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      10-15-2012, 12:30 AM   #2
Simon_135i
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None of the links worked...
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      10-15-2012, 12:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
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None of the links worked...
sorry fixed
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      10-15-2012, 12:47 AM   #4
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BMS is not a sponsor on this forum. They have their own forum.
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      10-15-2012, 01:44 AM   #5
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iiiinteresting...
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      10-15-2012, 03:23 AM   #6
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iiiinteresting...
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      10-15-2012, 05:02 AM   #7
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Have you talked to BMS about this directly? I've always been impressed by their business practices in the past, so I'd like to believe that there's a good explanation for this.
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      10-15-2012, 05:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooler2442 View Post
BMS is not a sponsor on this forum. They have their own forum.
what forum does BMS own?
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      10-15-2012, 05:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
what forum does BMS own?
n54tech
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      10-15-2012, 09:33 AM   #10
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OP: Maybe you should get in touch with the Better Business Bureau or even consider getting some legal guidance.

I don't know enough about you or BMS to make an informed decision at this point but if your claims are true you seem to have some grounds for legal action.
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      10-15-2012, 09:41 AM   #11
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Patent your product first before you sell it to the public; else people can legally copy it freely. I think you should talk to your lawyer first.
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      10-15-2012, 10:33 AM   #12
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That does really suck. But without Patent, I'm not sure how much you can do in the legal realm of things...

Unfortunate as I've been VERY pleased with BMS service and prodcuts in the past....
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      10-15-2012, 10:43 AM   #13
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No patent, so no real legal ramification. I accept that.

I just letting folks know of their unethical behavior. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right.

Thanks for the support guys.

And thanks to the mods for allowing this thread to stay in the general forum. I understand that it will be moved to the vendor feedback forum (where it belongs) in a few days.
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      10-15-2012, 10:54 AM   #14
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Contact Ebay. They take this kind of thing very seriously. Its actually about the only thing they take seriously
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      10-15-2012, 11:04 AM   #15
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Nelson, all I can say is I bought your clutch stop 3 yrs ago for my 135i and it has worked flawlessly. Great product, and I'll likely look you up again for the 1M. Pretty sad to hear of BMS's antics...
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      10-15-2012, 11:36 AM   #16
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are your images copyrighted?
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      10-15-2012, 11:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stohlen View Post
Contact Ebay. They take this kind of thing very seriously. Its actually about the only thing they take seriously
I plan to. For now I want people to be able to see what they have stooped too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Nelson, all I can say is I bought your clutch stop 3 yrs ago for my 135i and it has worked flawlessly. Great product, and I'll likely look you up again for the 1M. Pretty sad to hear of BMS's antics...
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRedman45 View Post
are your images copyrighted?
Someone told me that all images are automatically copyrighted but I don't know that for a fact. I plan on watermarking in the future.
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      10-15-2012, 12:25 PM   #18
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wow thats in poor taste on BMS's part if they did what theyre accused of...i have to be honest, as a customer they (BMS) were a first class companybto deal with. Interested to see where this goes..
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      10-15-2012, 12:36 PM   #19
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Funny enough i was looking to buy a clutch stop soon, looks like i'll be supporting the actual inventor and not the scum too lazy to make their own design or even take their own pictures.
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      10-15-2012, 01:10 PM   #20
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So, you're a vendor selling a product without a sponsorship account, and you're unhappy that another vendor is selling a similar product for less money? Have you considered BMS is not the only one selling clutch stops? Adjustable clutch stops have been around as long as clutches have been around and anyone can take a trip to home depot and make their own identical clutch stop.

It seems you are just unhappy BMS is willing to sell the same part for less? Fair enough. Then lower your price!

Regarding the BMS eBay only stop with metal washers I know for a fact they added it after a customer told them you claimed theirs would fall apart. Which is of course untrue. But they disliked the way you were behaving and spreading bad information to their customers so they decided to just offer the cheaper version using metal washers for those who bought in to the BS.

On the photos, there are several employees over there and likely someone made a mistake. I'm sure they will resolve that ASAP. They have sold hundreds of clutch stops I'm sure they can come up with their own photos.

Mike
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      10-15-2012, 01:10 PM   #21
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I've always thought (and still do) that BMS was one of the best vendors for 1 series mods... I've had nothing but good experiences with them, like others have said. Business is business, although practices can seem pretty ruthless at times. I could not be more surprised though.
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      10-15-2012, 02:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
So, you're a vendor selling a product without a sponsorship account, and you're unhappy that another vendor is selling a similar product for less money? Have you considered BMS is not the only one selling clutch stops? Adjustable clutch stops have been around as long as clutches have been around and anyone can take a trip to home depot and make their own identical clutch stop.

It seems you are just unhappy BMS is willing to sell the same part for less? Fair enough. Then lower your price!

Regarding the BMS eBay only stop with metal washers I know for a fact they added it after a customer told them you claimed theirs would fall apart. Which is of course untrue. But they disliked the way you were behaving and spreading bad information to their customers so they decided to just offer the cheaper version using metal washers for those who bought in to the BS.

On the photos, there are several employees over there and likely someone made a mistake. I'm sure they will resolve that ASAP. They have sold hundreds of clutch stops I'm sure they can come up with their own photos.

Mike
I sell on eBay.

You yourself called my design "tacky" in another post and now BMS copied it.

Ok, anything is possible. It could be a "mistake". Someone may have accidentally copied and saved my photos while they were supposed to use their own camera to snap some shots. I can totally see how that can happen.
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