BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      10-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #23
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      10-15-2012, 03:13 PM   #24
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Dry your eyes and get on with it
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      10-15-2012, 03:20 PM   #25
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I honestly think it was an error on BMS's part where they reused your pictures. I'm sure an employee made the mistake somehow. This is the part that is wrong of them.

But about claiming that they copied your design, nothing can be done about that. That's how the automotive game works. If you don't have a patent on it then you're out of luck.

Do you think BMW complains when all the Chinese manufacturers take their carbon fiber products and copy them exactly then sell at 1/4th the price? No. It happens to all companies.

And as someone else pointed out. It costs you maybe 50cents if not less to make a clutch stop and you charge 10$ for it. BMS figured they can do the same product and charge less. I'm personally for lower prices since we get hit with the BMW tax all the time.
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      10-15-2012, 03:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooler2442 View Post
I honestly think it was an error on BMS's part where they reused your pictures. I'm sure an employee made the mistake somehow. This is the part that is wrong of them.

But about claiming that they copied your design, nothing can be done about that. That's how the automotive game works. If you don't have a patent on it then you're out of luck.

Do you think BMW complains when all the Chinese manufacturers take their carbon fiber products and copy them exactly then sell at 1/4th the price? No. It happens to all companies.

And as someone else pointed out. It costs you maybe 50cents if not less to make a clutch stop and you charge 10$ for it. BMS figured they can do the same product and charge less. I'm personally for lower prices since we get hit with the BMW tax all the time.
As I've mentioned before, this is just a side hobby to help the community out. But that's not really the point of this thread.

The facts of the matter are:

1) I designed and developed an easy to install clutch stop. Anyone who has bought one from me knows they can easily make one themselves as soon as they see it. What I provide is convience so that you don't have to go out and have to buy all the pieces.

2) A year or two later BMS copied my design. Which is fine when they used rubber washers. I didn't even complain when they used by install picture. I just figured smart buyers would see through to them and buy mine instead.

3) Now BMS copies my design exactly and uses all the pictures in my ad as their own. That's the last straw.

Strange that they would offer this "new" metal washer design on eBay only. You would think that if customers asked for it, you would offer it everywhere you products are sold...especially your own website. Honestly after postage, bubble envelope, paypal fees and ebay fees I make about $5 per stopper. So their pricing is an attempt to drive me out not offer a cheaper alternative. Why else would they only offer it on eBay where I sell.

I think I've made my point. If BMS can't or won't respond well that there's not much else to say.
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      10-15-2012, 03:50 PM   #27
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I see they've updated their listing to remove my pictures but they're still using my install one - haha
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      10-15-2012, 04:04 PM   #28
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bought yours a few months back. thanks haha
sorry about this situation but shit happens. Thanks for the great product though
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      10-15-2012, 04:22 PM   #29
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JetBlack, you've almost certainly got a valid copyright infringement case and possibly more. If you are really concerned about this I would go ahead and contact an attorney.
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      10-15-2012, 04:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexington View Post

+1
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      10-15-2012, 05:55 PM   #31
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Great response by Terry, I'll keep buying BMS products. Mike you should also go post that on all the other threads that were made. They exist on F30 post, E90, M3, etc.
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      10-15-2012, 06:04 PM   #32
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I'm still curious how if there's any proof what picture belongs to who? (for anything, anywhere, if there is no watermark or something on it).
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      10-15-2012, 06:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooler2442 View Post
Great response by Terry, I'll keep buying BMS products. Mike you should also go post that on all the other threads that were made. They exist on F30 post, E90, M3, etc.
Not really


Mike, thanks for posting Terry's response.

1) Read more carefully. I never said I invented the clutch stop. It’s been around for years. I said I invented the “easy to install E90 clutch stop” and I invented the first “easy to install adjustable E90 clutch stop”. I’m sure you’ve never seen my clutch stop before you walked into home depot. I guess that’s how you found my install pictures…which by the way you’re still using. Just because you darkened the red circle around the stopper doesn’t mean it’s your picture. You’re not fooling anyone.
2) If you say so.
3) If you say so.
4) Possible.
5) True but not the only reason. No need to rehash.
6) You must have a full service webmaster. They do everything for you including using my pictures. Nice.

It’s ok, I don’t expect anything from you. I just wanted the community to know. And again, I did not invent the clutch stop. I invented the easy to install E90 clutch stop.
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      10-15-2012, 06:58 PM   #34
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Hey, we all have an opinion. Mine is that Terry and BMS are awesome.
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      10-15-2012, 11:37 PM   #35
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If Apple can stick it to Samsung...
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      10-16-2012, 12:33 AM   #36
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*** EDIT UPDATE***

BMS has removed my pictures from their listing. For those still interested, here are the archived listings for you to judge. Thanks to all those who support me.

My listing:



Their Listings:



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      10-16-2012, 01:32 AM   #37
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BMS should be worried about their image to the public, not just the handful of people who have purchased products. I have never purchased a product from them but to be honest, if this is all true, I probably never will. Them copying pictures from a individual just shows a lazy attempt at producing products for the public.
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      10-16-2012, 11:08 AM   #38
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I've only had the best customer support from BMS and I will continue to buy from them. You should probably copyright your stuff before selling it.
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      10-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #39
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From Terry@BMS




Hi " pickyeater334",

I'm disappointed to see this ridiculous libelous filled thread. My thoughts:

1) You did not invent the clutch stop. I ran a similar clutch stop in
a 1982 Datsun 210 twenty years ago. So any assertion that you somehow
designed this product after "months of research", etc, is completely
false. I "designed" our clutch stop by wandering in to Home Depot and
purchasing a furniture stopper for a local customer at his request. He
liked it so much we decided to offer them to the public as a
convenience.
2) We added the "metal washer" version to our lineup as an eBay only
product in direct response to an inquiry from a customer who stated
you told him our rubber washer version would fall apart on him. This
is complete nonsense and I'm willing to provide a lifetime warranty on
our clutch stops to back it up. But by offering a lower cost metal
washer version we are at least giving our customers the choice.
3) The hard rubber washer design is in my opinion superior. It offers
a touch of rebound without the risk for rattle. And as I said we
provide a lifetime warranty on them. I've NEVER had a customer email
in with any issues.
4) BMS is one of many companies providing similar clutch stops.
5) The real reason you are upset is that we are willing to sell clutch
stops for $6 shipped which is significantly less than what you charge.
As I've explained to you via private email our cost with shipping on
this less expensive metal washer version is only $2.25. We feel $6
shipped is a fair price for it considering we have to pay rent,
employees, forum sponsorships, taxes, etc. You may feel $10 is a fair
price and that is your business. But I don't see why we should raise
our prices on it.
6) You sent an email yesterday demanding we pay you royalties for
these clutch stoppers and accused us of copying your photos. As I
explained to you yesterday you did not invent the clutch stop and this
is the first I've heard of us using your photos. If one of your photos
was used I sincerely apologize for it. I've sent an email off to our
webmaster who is responsible for the eBay listings to investigate and
update the photos ASAP. Furthermore if this was just a hobby as you
state you would not be making these unfounded claims for royalties or
be concerned with our prices.

And for the record I agree with many posters that it's important to
recognize innovation. And if anyone really believes "pickeater334" has
invented the clutch stop I would encourage them to pay a little more
for his product vs. the numerous other vendors offering them. But in
the same regard I would also encourage "pickeater334" to step up as a
legitimate vendor. We've been sponsoring community forums, websites,
meets, and charity events since 2007.

If you have any further concerns feel free to email me.

Best,
Terry
BMS
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      10-16-2012, 03:15 PM   #40
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To recap since the BMS's response is banned. They basically are not admitting fault. And he keeps gong off on a tangent saying that I think I invented the clutch stop when I clearly never said that. What I did invent was the first “easy to install adjustable E90 clutch stop”.

With regards to the use of my photos, he claims that it was his webmasters fault. Why would a webmaster post pictures of my clutch stop when you swear you created it on your own. If you did make it one day at home depot, wouldn't you give pictures to the webmaster to post? Afterall....how can a webmaster post pictures of something that didn't exist until you just put it together? Makes no sense to me....but I guess it does to some.

For those who love BMS, more power to you. Keep at it.

I've informed the public of my situation and they can judge for themselves. The pictures are worth a thousand words.

Like I have said and updated in my original post, they've taken down my pictures. There's nothing else I expect from a Company like that.

I'm happy to be a part of such a good BMW community. Thanks for the support and understanding.
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      10-17-2012, 12:29 AM   #41
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I think your point would be more effective if you didn't try to make yourself out to be a martyr.

By trying to appeal to the community that you are trying to do them a favor by doing "months of R&D" on their behalf(c'mon, really?), thanking your supporters (to rally the troups), and promoting it as a hobby but then charging them a 300% mark up while bashing your competition...in my opinion it undermines your point. If you're out to make a buck, that's cool.

HOWEVER, you have some valid points, BMS screwed up by using your photos, that's on par with the crap the oversees sellers are doing. To which you have every right to call them out on it. Demanding royalties when claiming to be doing the community a favor...not so much.

Also, if I sold a similar product to yours and heard you were bashing my product, I may or may not choose to make modifications to my product to make my customers happy. I see the arguments on both sides of that debate. After that, it became a pissing match and you decided to take yours public. Not only that but you clearly went for the throat by posting on every forum possible...also undermines your point a bit IMHO.

Also, I think you're gonna have a hard time convicing people how ruthless Terry is (I'm truly impartial). I've seen a thread where somebody had an idea for an improved PCV, presented it to Terry and he told them to run with it. They did and sell it on Terry's forum.

Either way, best of luck in your venture, if nothing else write it off as a learning experience.

Last edited by SteveAZ; 10-17-2012 at 12:49 AM..
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      10-17-2012, 03:14 AM   #42
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Terry @ BMS:

1.) I hope you don't "wander" to Home Depot for supplies for all your products.

2.) Your long strung out apology was the worst attempt by a vendor to apologize for using someone else's picture(s).

3.) You have a valid point about the clutch stop royalties situation.

4.) Rubber over time does decay and break down. Thanks to oxygen if I remember correctly.


I don't understand everyone jumping all over this guy, if he is simply sharing his experience. Is that not what this area of the forum is about?
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      10-17-2012, 07:03 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
promoting it as a hobby but then charging them a 300% mark up
Apropos of nothing - I don't think anyone is getting rich on these.
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