1M at 2011 Chicago Autoshow. First shots of full undercarriage.

[bogart]

what is with the headlights? looks horrible.

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Hmmm, not to turn this into another MT vs DCT debate... But ...

I've corrected your statement. No quotes are needed in the speeds because the speeds of the transmissions are not in question and it is clear that the speeds refer to the trannies not the cars. The "Most people" part is the totally false part that really struck me.

Thanks... the quotes were because the faster lap time would come from the slower transmission not the faster transmission. Yes the transmission in and of itself is faster (excluding all other variables), but MOST people with that faster tranny could not outlap a good driver on a track.

Go to a track day and see how many numb skulls show up who cant drive then factor in all the terrible drivers that dont even have the balls or interest to be on a track. I think it easily outnumbers the drivers that are "good".

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by M3crazy

My preference isn't about trackin a car. Daily drivers have to be just that, daily drivers. I'd be curious to know how old the guys that want to use these cars as a track runner vs the ones that want the car to be a fun daily driver. Not that you can't be one or both, but I think it would prove my point.

My point was only to "why someone would want a slower car". The difference is negligible on the street or track, especially when you factor in the "boring" aspect.

How much faster does it make you in your daily driving? Is that a difference a big enough factor?

Point being the appeal of DCT shouldnt be because its faster. That "faster" doesnt come into play for an average joe.

Convenient? Sure! More desirable because one cant drive manual? Definitely!! Marketing brainwash for the younger generation? Possibly?

[1M Fan]

Originally Posted by My E90

I'm going to assume that you never enjoyed driving a manual transmission car.

DCT may be faster in drag race to 60, but time to speed never won any race. It's time to distance and reaction time that matters. A true manual offers flexibility that an automatic can't match.

[skyphab]

DCT is great technology and its fast, but I also prefer the manual transmission.
Somewhere I read that men prefer manual transmission because they identify the gear laver with their penis. Well, it's bad the 1M has such a short one

[ben14142001]

I was at the show last night and looked/sat in the car for a while. Looks nice in person, very wide, I would never buy the orange though. I wasn't really impressed with the interior, they changed the climate control knobs to much cheaper looking dials (compared to my 08). I forgot to snap a picture, but I didn't like the look of them. Wheels look great in person too.

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by 1M Fan

DCT may be faster in drag race to 60, but time to speed never won any race. It's time to distance and reaction time that matters. A true manual offers flexibility that an automatic can't match.

Honestly... just cut it if you don't know what you're talking about! My M3 has a DCT and it's NOT a friggin automatic! That is bs, technically. Neither was the SMG in the M3 before that. Possible that half the DCT drivers may view it as an automatic. Wouldn't surprise me, if my car never went faster than 100mp/h, maybe I would too. But drive either a DCT or an SMG car on a track and you'll know where the advantages are. If you can drive. a.) yes it shifts faster (and a hell of a lot at that, especially if you have to shift coming out of a corner), b.) it will prevent shifting errors and c.) you can leave your hands where they belong. Naturally for someone shifting manually in slowmo your chances of killing engine, box or both (i.e. because you hit third instead of fifth) are minimal. But if you talk about racing (which you are doing), then automated clutches have big advantages. That's why in any race series that allows them, you'll see paddles.

If you're the type still using a mechanical typewriter today, then your logic is correct and feasible. If you realize, that we have advanced slightly past that point, then you should try riding next to someone in a DCT car that knows how to max that cars performance... and after that... start rethinking.

[skyphab]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

But if you talk about racing (which you are doing), then automated clutches have big advantages. That's why in any race series that allows them, you'll see paddles.

But there comes the difference, DCT is not race technology because of the paddles. Race cars mostly have sequential transmissions, and just up and down paddles make perfect sense here.

And the hand on the wheel is also only right if you're talking of real race cars. Look at the steering lock at a real race car. The driver really NEVER takes his hands off it, even through sharp corners. But drive through a hairpin with a street car, you will have to make some turns (revolution, or whatever it is called, sorry).

Yes, paddles are fast and makes perfect sense in a real race car. But that doesn't mean its the only way to go in a street car.

[Sedan_Clan]

Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by skyphab

But there comes the difference, DCT is not race technology because of the paddles. Race cars mostly have sequential transmissions, and just up and down paddles make perfect sense here.

I didn't write, that that was the advantage. I wrote, that the automated clutch (plus the software that goes with it) is the advantage. The common denominator will be the paddles though, because if someone automates the clutch, they'll normally get rid of the stick too.

BTW: Sequential gearboxes are primarily used because they are lighter and not because you only shift up and down!

PS: Then maybe you should try driving an M3... you don't need to "turn the wheel" in it, in the sense you are refering to. Are you honestly suggesting the CSL and the GTS don't qualify in the sports car league? Or a Stradale? Or an R8, Gallardo, etc?
And I didn't say "only way to go" either! I am saying "best way to go for performance reasons".

[techthentic]

Originally Posted by EmmDrei

Honestly... just cut it if you don't know what you're talking about! My M3 has a DCT and it's NOT a friggin automatic! That is bs, technically. Neither was the SMG in the M3 before that. Possible that half the DCT drivers may view it as an automatic. Wouldn't surprise me, if my car never went faster than 100mp/h, maybe I would too. But drive either a DCT or an SMG car on a track and you'll know where the advantages are. If you can drive. a.) yes it shifts faster (and a hell of a lot at that, especially if you have to shift coming out of a corner), b.) it will prevent shifting errors and c.) you can leave your hands where they belong. Naturally for someone shifting manually in slowmo your chances of killing engine, box or both (i.e. because you hit third instead of fifth) are minimal. But if you talk about racing (which you are doing), then automated clutches have big advantages. That's why in any race series that allows them, you'll see paddles.

If you're the type still using a mechanical typewriter today, then your logic is correct and feasible. If you realize, that we have advanced slightly past that point, then you should try riding next to someone in a DCT car that knows how to max that cars performance... and after that... start rethinking.

Yes, it IS a automatic. Does it change gears for you? And paddle shifting doesn't count because you're the one telling your car to change the gears. With a dct, your transmission engages the clutch and changes the gear. Hence you are not MANUALy doing anything, your car is AUTOMATICally doing everything.

Your hands do not belong at the wheel because you are not piloting a F1 vehicle, where not holding onto the wheel could result in flying off the track.

Unless your job is turning in the fastest lap time, or you're driving a supercar with more power than most people could handle operating a clutch with; no reason not to get a manual. If you don't want to immerse yourself in the joy of FULLY driving a sports car, go buy a sedan with a really big engine.

Typewriter vs computer keyboard is not a good comparison as those are two different technologies. Try membrane/dome keyboards (majority of keyboards) vs mechanical keyboards. And while it takes longer to type each letter, mechanical keyboards offer a distinct tactile feedback regular keyboards can't match.

But you seem like the type who would go fishing with a fishing rod that hooked its on bait, cast itself out, and self reeled the line back whenever you caught something. Cause all you want to do is hold and position the rod right? (Driving dct is the same thing)

The NUMBER 1 reason I want a 1M so badly is that no one driving my car will be a poseur with dct.

Dct is very advanced. But it'll be in my next sedan, why kid yourself that your driving a sports car, when its not so powerful that you can't have a manual and you've stripped half the work away from driving. Why don't we start playing basketball, but remove the running and replace that with powered wheel chairs and solely shoot the balls.

[T1T2GRE]

...just got my boarding pass to head to Chicago!

Woohoo! Quality time with my VO girlfriend and some pan pizza. AND...a free alcoholic beverage on Southwest.

[blueshark]

Try not to get pizza grease all over the steering wheel.

[EmmDrei]

Originally Posted by techthentic

Yes, it IS a automatic.

If you compare the 335s DCT with that of the M3, then you are comparing two different boxes. We are talking about an M here and so I am refering to the M DCT and not the stuff they are sticking in the 335 etc. My job btw is to stay on the road and not to play with tons of entertainment junk because driving gets too boring otherwise. Yes, that is why my hands stay on the wheel. And no, my M3 doesn't change gears for me. Simply because it has never been driven in the auto mode. How are you going to use a DC gearbox manually anyway? Do you grow a third foot?

The problem is, you don't get the point... I've ordered a mt 1M. My racecar is mt. All my cars before the M346 and M392 were mt. Yet and still I say that the DCT is the better and more performant concept. Because I've actually driven it on the limit. It has nothing to do with me being to stupid or lazy to change gears manually. Actually chances are, I can probably do that faster and more effective than you can.

[TunedM2C]

Originally Posted by T1T2GRE

...just got my boarding pass to head to Chicago!

Woohoo! Quality time with my VO girlfriend and some pan pizza. AND...a free alcoholic beverage on Southwest.

Deep dish, not pan is the way to go.

Food coma in a box:

(enlarged to show texture lol)

[skyphab]

What the heck is that??

Looks fantastic though! I'm hungry!!

[TunedM2C]

^ Chicago deep dish pizza from Giordano's Pizza. They ship anywhere in the U.S.

Sorry for the OT btw but it is lunch time and I'm jonesing for this right now!

[skyphab]

It's funny what is called "pizza" in the US
It looks like an inside out pizza. But definitely tasty!!

Yeah, sorry for OT! *hmm* =)

[MUFCbmwbear]

I will see this car Tuesday at the auto show. Can't wait. As with a lot of cars, I think the flared fenders and little nuances of the car have to be seen in person to get a feel of how different it appears than a 135i
Most of my friends who I show the 1M to say, "looks just like your car man!" Amateurs.

Chicago style deep dish!! I have mine from Lou Malnati's bi-weekly.. NO BIG DEAL!

[natmad]

Interesting DCT versus manual discussion here.

Car and Driver 2009 Lightning Lap M3 text:

"The M3 was invited back for a second Lightning Lap because of complaints last time regarding its seven-speed, dual-clutch M DCT gearbox not following commands, particularly on downshifts. And this time, the M3 was riding on the available Michelin Pilot Sport Cup + tires.

"Although the hot-rod Bimmer is always an impressive ride, with decidedly sports-car-like agility in a class of mostly heavyweight bruisers, the M3's lap time improved by just 0.2 second. As we found with our recently concluded long-term M3, the Sport Cup + tires don't seem to shave a whole lot off lap times, and the dual-clutch gearbox was still occasionally reluctant to grant downshifts under braking. So drivers had to keep an eye on the dash display - never a good thing for lap times - to verify which gear was in play."

I wonder if they would have lapped faster with the six speed?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by natmad

Interesting DCT versus manual discussion here.

Car and Driver 2009 Lightning Lap M3 text:

"The M3 was invited back for a second Lightning Lap because of complaints last time regarding its seven-speed, dual-clutch M DCT gearbox not following commands, particularly on downshifts. And this time, the M3 was riding on the available Michelin Pilot Sport Cup + tires.

"Although the hot-rod Bimmer is always an impressive ride, with decidedly sports-car-like agility in a class of mostly heavyweight bruisers, the M3's lap time improved by just 0.2 second. As we found with our recently concluded long-term M3, the Sport Cup + tires don't seem to shave a whole lot off lap times, and the dual-clutch gearbox was still occasionally reluctant to grant downshifts under braking. So drivers had to keep an eye on the dash display - never a good thing for lap times - to verify which gear was in play."

I wonder if they would have lapped faster with the six speed?

Good question! Have any mags posted back-to-back lap times between the DCT and 6-Speed?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tuned1

Deep dish, not pan is the way to go.

Food coma in a box:

(enlarged to show texture lol)

I love pizza. In fact, I devour a whole semi-thin crust pizza every Friday (..a treat to myself because I maintain a relatively strict diet in order to stay fit).....

...but that pizza gave me a heart attack on sight.