Running with no Tire Pressure Sensors

[hollysmac]

Originally Posted by pinmagic

But it does affect other people. If your tire is low, and suddenly comes off, you could easily cause an accident.

Out of the 53 years I have driven since I was 14 , I made it just fine 52 years without sensors. Nothing can replace checking your tire pressure manually. Prevention is the best way to operate. The few times I have had a flat on the highway you can tell something is wrong soon enough to pull over and investigate.

Holly
Yes in the late 50s and 60s in texas you could get a license at 14. I can't believe my father turned me loose in a twin cam MGA at 16. I did some very bad things with that car.

[hollysmac]

Originally Posted by pinmagic

But it does affect other people. If your tire is low, and suddenly comes off, you could easily cause an accident.

Out of the 53 years I have driven since I was 14 , I made it just fine 52 years without sensors. Nothing can replace checking your tire pressure manually. Prevention is the best way to operate. The few times I have had a flat on the highway you can tell something is wrong soon enough to pull over and investigate.

Holly
Yes in the late 50s and 60s in texas you could get a license at 14. I can't believe my father turned me loose in a twin cam MGA at 16. I did some very bad things with that car.

[ozinaldo]

hollysmac! It gives me pride to have the same car's ownership and to feel the same enthusiasm Love the way you put things in perspective.

There can't be any gas station stop that I skip checking my tires and sometimes I do fill my tank earlier than necessary just because of the need I feel to check tires. Listening the car and making things manually yourself is the key, more so for the 1M.

I always felt like TPS systems which do not monitor the pressure constantly and give you an accurate/reliable idea of what pressure your individual tires have at any given time but instead basically tells you that you must be on the wheels instead of tires already are the most hypocrite safety devices in our modern cars. They themselves can cause accidents.

[Oaktree]

Just so we have no confusion, the US 1M has sensors in the stock rims/tires and the light will go off if you change to a winter set without them...ask me how I know.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Oaktree

Just so we have no confusion, all US cars built from around 2007 has sensors in the stock rims/tires and the light will go off if you change to a winter set without them...ask me how I know.

fixed for accuracy.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MPBK

^^ People like to throw the word "safety" as a justification for anything.
Go to an elementary school and try to ask why they mandate a certain dress code and they will use the safety card promptly, to shut you up.
Safety justifies all the stupidity we see in this country.
Take a step back and look at other countries. They don't mandate TPMS and they are still alive. Of course they don't have the litigious society that we have here. :mad:

You might say Electronic Traction Control (DSC) is a safety feature as well. I'd argue it's much more so than TPMS. Yet, it's not mandated. What gives?
Hint: safety be damned. It's all about the industry lobbyists.

Wow. That is a REALLY dumb and insensitive statement.

maybe you should put these words together.

Firestone, rollover, ford.


Maybe we need to introduce you to some of the people who lost family members ?

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by MPBK

You might say Electronic Traction Control (DSC) is a safety feature as well. I'd argue it's much more so than TPMS. Yet, it's not mandated. What gives?
Hint: safety be damned. It's all about the industry lobbyists.

Fact check: Stability control is mandated on all 2012 passenger cars sold in the US.

Sure, regulation sucks, and every time I drive I turn DSC off first. However remember that every new safety improvement has been resisted by opponents of regulation, the automotive industry, etc. This goes back to seat-belts, airbags, side impact protection... However the roads are dramatically safer today than they have ever been, and that is a direct result of ignoring those opponents:


The TPMS saves lives of hundreds of people a year not to mention huge amounts of gas, it doesn't wrinkle your cloths like a seatbelt, and the only impact to you is the cost a couple tanks of gas if you buy aftermarket rims. And you're seriously complaining? It's called progress- deal.

BTW, if you ever have a puncture and deflation at speed, you'll quickly learn that the sensors are not so bad after all...

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Wow. That is a REALLY dumb and insensitive statement.

maybe you should put these words together.

Firestone, rollover, ford.


Maybe we need to introduce you to some of the people who lost family members ?

If you're trying to oversimplify the Ford/Firestone fiasco as a lack-of-electronic-nanny-in-the-car incident, you're the dumb one.
Not to negate the tragedy of the incidents, but for every one Ford/Firestone incident, there are 1000 others that drove just fine. Let's restrict the freedom of the majority for the errors of a few.
The claim in the law suit wasn't that Ford didn't provide a flat tire alarm. The heart of the claim was that Firestone tires were faulty, that Ford knew that but decided to do nothing about it.
Having castigated the culprits (Ford/Firestone) politicos were pressured by lobbyists to "do something about it". That's how they came up with TPMS.
The argument was that... if the tire pressure wasn't low the bad glue used in the tire thread wouldn't have failed, so lets do something about tire pressures.
This kind of logic only make sense in the minds of paranoid people that think like you and want to create a bubble to protect us from ourselves.
If those people weren't driving at all, that wouldn't have happen neither. Let's ban driving.

Given your ultra sensitivity, extreme paranoia and political correctness crap, riddle me this... how come in TX motorcycle riders aren't required to wear helmets, like in the rest of the country? Shall I introduce you to the families of some of those who lost their lives riding without helmets?

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by MPBK

Not to negate the tragedy of the incidents, but for every one Ford/Firestone incident, there are 1000 others that drove just fine. Let's restrict the freedom of the majority for the errors of a few.

Seriously?? So for every person that gets murdered in his bed there are 10,000 others that don't; let's not burden the public with pesky and expensive police. Because they crimp your style... That's your argument??

Originally Posted by MPBK

The claim in the law suit wasn't that Ford didn't provide a flat tire alarm.

Do not misdirect with what the lawsuit said. The fact is that a tire pressure monitoring system, which is now mandated, would have save the vast majority of those lives lost. Period.

Now, given the chance to do it over, what would you prefer:
A) Those 250+ people dead (and 3000+ injured) and one less law that annoys you on the books, or
B) Those people alive and you dealing with being annoyed...

I certainly know which I prefer.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Seriously?? So for every person that gets murdered in his bed there are 10,000 others that don't; let's not burden the public with pesky and expensive police. Because they crimp your style... That's your argument??

No. Not by a long shot.
You don't seem to understand the difference between judicial and executive branches. One makes the law, the other enforces it.
I'm saying don't make unnecessary laws. Once it's make, we must enforce them.
And no, your example is ridiculous had you put it in the right context. Not having a "you must not kill" law would not work, that is why it's there.
But not having a TPMS in my wheels... doh, nobody had them since the invention of cars. The one incident that spawn the paranoia could have been addressed better... and we already have laws for that. Just need to enforce them.

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Do not misdirect with what the lawsuit said. The fact is that a tire pressure monitoring system, which is now mandated, would have save the vast majority of those lives lost. Period.

Not true. If you ignored the TPMS warning, you'd still die.
What it does is to deflect blame. You now can't sue Firestone.
If Ford where to follow proper procedures and taken action of not installing defective Firestones in their cars, none of those people would have died either.
Get the difference?

[chachacha28]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Wow. That is a REALLY dumb and insensitive statement.

maybe you should put these words together.

Firestone, rollover, ford.


Maybe we need to introduce you to some of the people who lost family members ?

Maybe i should introduce myself as a former ford explorer owner, the first gen explorer, the ones that rolled over. SUV's were still fairly new at the time, and people thought they should ride more like cars than trucks, so they were complaining about the rough ride, and ford was telling them to lower the air pressure in the tires. That's what caused the rollovers, not accidental low inflation. I had my explorer lifted 3", with 33 inch tires (stock was about 30", no sway bars, and i drove it like the teenager i was. It survived fine for 3 years.

The problem was nothing the TPMS would help, it was people not knowing enough about the 2 ton weapon they employ on a daily basis, it was ford not having the balls to tell people they drove a truck with a longer roof, it was people not realizing their SUV didn't handle like a lotus.

That being said, TPMS is mandatory to be installed, not mandatory to be maintained. If you dont want it, take them off! its as simple as that. sell them on the forum to someone who wants the extra piece of mind.

the previous owner took the tpms off my car, and if i can get a set cheap, i will. Im not super worried about it though, i check my tires at least weekly, and i can feel when one is low.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by MPBK

Not true. If you ignored the TPMS warning, you'd still die.

This is the type of "logic" that gets you these completely off the wall conclusions.

Are you are assuming 100% of people ignore the big orange light on the dash? Even you don't really believe that. Percentage wise, please estimate how many people you think ignore that light? So multiply (1- your estimate) x 3000 people injured. OK, that's how many people it saved from injury. Still more that enough for me to feel quite happy that you are inconvenienced...

Originally Posted by MPBK

I'm saying don't make unnecessary laws.

This goes back to my first point. There were no laws requiring cars to have seatbelts in the 50s. Your exact arguments were made suggesting that they were not needed, etc. Luckily, everyone else was smart enough to ignore those arguments, we got seatbelts mandated (and airbags, and safety glass, and bumpers, and plenty more "unnecessary" safety systems) and now less than 1/4 the number people die per mile despite higher speeds, more traffic, etc.

Not one of these things was "necessary". All of them add up to massive safety improvements. You are suggesting stopping this process, because what, we're good enough? Please explain which laws we've already enacted you'd repeal, and we can do some quick math on how many more people would be dead if the DOT listened to people like you... Back to my example, many more people would be dead than have been murdered in the same time period. Yet you're suggesting that while a law against murder in "necessary", these laws are not.

[ESC OFF]

By the time this pissing match is over the snow will have all melted....

[Jet Mech]

Originally Posted by ESC OFF

By the time this pissing match is over the snow will have all melted....

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

This is the type of "logic" that gets you these completely off the wall conclusions.

Are you are assuming 100% of people ignore the big orange light on the dash? Even you don't really believe that. Percentage wise, please estimate how many people you think ignore that light? So multiply (1- your estimate) x 3000 people injured. OK, that's how many people it saved from injury. Still more that enough for me to feel quite happy that you are inconvenienced...

Your argument technique is well known (even if you don't realize what you're doing) and even has a name: straw man.
You make a statement based on taking things I said out of context and spinning it - your straw man. Then you beat it to a pulp.

I was replying to your previous post. In that context, if every single one of the cars that were involved in fatal accidents had TPMS, and if the people in those cars ignored it, they'd still die. My point was to offer a counter to your statement that having TPMS would have automatically saved their lives. Not necessarily true.
But it's true that having TPMS, none of those people could have sued the manufacturers.
You tell me who the lobbyists worked for. Not the safety patrol.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Fact check: Stability control is mandated on all 2012 passenger cars sold in the US.

Sure, regulation sucks, and every time I drive I turn DSC off first. However remember that every new safety improvement has been resisted by opponents of regulation, the automotive industry, etc. This goes back to seat-belts, airbags, side impact protection... However the roads are dramatically safer today than they have ever been, and that is a direct result of ignoring those opponents:


The TPMS saves lives of hundreds of people a year not to mention huge amounts of gas, it doesn't wrinkle your cloths like a seatbelt, and the only impact to you is the cost a couple tanks of gas if you buy aftermarket rims. And you're seriously complaining? It's called progress- deal.

BTW, if you ever have a puncture and deflation at speed, you'll quickly learn that the sensors are not so bad after all...

What Pete said...

It's called progress- deal. you others can still stay old school...
If you need some electrical tape for your dash... Call Ace Hardware.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

What Pete said...

It's called progress- deal. you others can still stay old school...
If you need some electrical tape for your dash... Call Ace Hardware.

That is the whole point... I would turn it off, but they made it MANDATORY.
I have nothing against introducing the feature as optional.