Fifth Gear 135i vs. Cayman

[moff]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

The fact that the 135 beat the Cayman is great but what I really want to see is 135 vs STI vs EVO.

The video tells us that Porsche has to bring a 'sports' car twice the value to beat the 135. With a few inexpensive mods the 135 will be an animal on the track.

Not quite twice the value.

In the UK the Cayman is £6k more expensive. Given the estimated depreciation of a 135i versus the Cayman, the Cayman is not really that much more expensive over 2-3 years.

I would like to see Top Gear do 135i vs 350Z vs Audi S3

[Numb3rs]

:w00t:
Thanks for the email and link!


I find that video review subdued. Does anyone else feel they let-up the 135? Almost like BMW beat the Porsche so badly, that when doing the filming they had to let up on the bimm.

Why throw in a drift review into the mix? Was Porsche/Cayman evar known for their drifting? Then they score the Cayman higher. Anyone else feel like this was done just so the Cayman could beat the 135 at something?

Or is this 135i that good..?

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by moff

Not quite twice the value.

In the UK the Cayman is £6k more expensive. Given the estimated depreciation of a 135i versus the Cayman, the Cayman is not really that much more expensive over 2-3 years.

I would like to see Top Gear do 135i vs 350Z vs Audi S3

My point was that Porsche would have to bring the Cayman S to beat the 135. In Canada the CS is 80k, the 135 is 40.

[pumaknight]

Originally Posted by edge350

It was complete gibberish. I was just trying to get a rise out of these guys while they were trying upload the video. Had to pass the time. "If you can't help them, confuse them"....no, that's not it...
That's enough from me...Don't want to interfere with the serious discussion talking place on this thread...

Bloody marvelous - now that is an approach I like

[imported_Dodgy]

Originally Posted by larryn

Awesome episode. I expected that outcome, but boy those guys were throwing lots of seconds away by late apexing, 2 wheels in the grass, etc. If they were only 1 second apart (by a stopwatch no less - margin of error is >1second between 2 different people), I think it could be a toss up.

I'd like to see clean runs and actual timers.

Thanks for putting these up!!

Agree, but having another look at the vid, I am sure they did multiple runs, in each car, and the final times were either best or average of the runs. You can pick up in the dialogue that they probably did more than one lap, and the missed apices / off-roading ediited in for entertainment value. I reckon it plays better the second or third time through, as long as you don't take it too seriously. they would've given both cars a good going over, and just presented us with their overall thoughts.:smile:

[WAY]

Dodgy, I completely agree with you. I got the impression watching it too. And these are two very highly professional racing drivers, surely they are not going to take a lap that is full of oversteering hooliganism as their timed lap!

[BMWeber]

that was quite exciting for me. I don't care if the test were not spot on but it basically show the two cars are pretty close. the fact the 135i is in the ball park of handling with the cayman is awesome. the BMW is made to be a daily driver somewhat practical car the cayman is a pure sports car.

people that complain about the under steer and body roll make me laugh. your talking about something that can be cured for less than $1000. This car looks like it is going to be a great platform. put half of the price difference between the 135i and cayman(not cayman S) into mods and you'll have a beast.

Oh ya I love 5th gear just as much as top gear maybe more. less comedy and more car.

[colonel1961]

That's just waaay too cool!

Thanks!

[Mike Roberts]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

people that complain about the under steer and body roll make me laugh. your talking about something that can be cured for less than $1000.

You're also talking about a car that has to have enough travel to allow for the weight of 4 adults and luggage...I'm not surprised it rolls!
What I was impressed with is the way it controls the roll with the quick weight transfers and forces being asked of it. It just seemed to roll, settle and grip like hell.

These tests were hardly scientific, but they were edited in such a way as to make them entertaining and a change from the carbon copy reviews we've been reading for the past few months. I believe the lap times for example will have been a real attempt and the fun element added in will have been from practice ones.

[moff]

Originally Posted by BMWeber

people that complain about the under steer and body roll make me laugh. your talking about something that can be cured for less than $1000. This car looks like it is going to be a great platform. put half of the price difference between the 135i and cayman(not cayman S) into mods and you'll have a beast.

Oh ya I love 5th gear just as much as top gear maybe more. less comedy and more car.

Why should we have to pay $1000 to fix negative aspects of the car? Would it not have made more sense for BMW to have rectified these two issues during the build process?

Many people will argue that when they are already spending a lot of money on what is essentially a small car that these 'problems' should not be there.

5th Gear as good as Top Gear !!!! Seriously? Did you watch the whole of last nights episode or just the 135i highlights? It was terminally dull last night, painful to watch the first 50 minutes until the 135i section.

It's no surprise that 5th Gear has a tiny television audience in the UK compared to Top Gear, and no surprise again that it won't be exported to the US as Top Gear is.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by TheAnhDy

Yay for 135i now give it to the STIG!!!

+1

[TazioNYC]

Originally Posted by moff

How do you know what 'the stig' has won or not won?

The Stig I was Perry McCarthy. The Stig II is Ben Collins.

[MrRoboto]

Are their any Nurburgring times for the 135 yet?

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by moff

Why should we have to pay $1000 to fix negative aspects of the car? Would it not have made more sense for BMW to have rectified these two issues during the build process?

Many people will argue that when they are already spending a lot of money on what is essentially a small car that these 'problems' should not be there.

5th Gear as good as Top Gear !!!! Seriously? Did you watch the whole of last nights episode or just the 135i highlights? It was terminally dull last night, painful to watch the first 50 minutes until the 135i section.

It's no surprise that 5th Gear has a tiny television audience in the UK compared to Top Gear, and no surprise again that it won't be exported to the US as Top Gear is.

first of all when you make a car there has to be compromises. understeer AT THE LIMIT is not a negative aspect nor a problem. it is safe and it is there because they compromised to make the car ride somewhat nicely witch is what 90% of consumers will enjoy. yet it still beat up on a cayman. and those 90% will never experience the understeer. if you want a car that handle perfectly on the track at the limit from the factory get a lotus, 911 GT3 etc. and as I stated for a lot less than anything comparable you can mod this car to your own liking.

and as for the top gear/5th gear there is called a thing called personal prefrence.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Are their any Nurburgring times for the 135 yet?

My money is on somewhere in the 7:12 range.




^Joke

[ARES45]

Originally Posted by moff

Why should we have to pay $1000 to fix negative aspects of the car? Would it not have made more sense for BMW to have rectified these two issues during the build process?

I think BMW has made this car so that anyone can drive it on a daily basis and enjoy it, and for relatively cheap those with know-how can turn it into a track monster. I won't mind the body roll/understeer for 99% of the use I get out of my 135. BMW isn't selling this as a track car, just a more nimble BMW.

[ChrisK]

You guys are making me laugh!

Forget the 135i's understeer! They are comparing a 4 passenger BMW coupe to a Porsche sports car. I am amazed that BMW was able to get that kind of performance from the 135i.

[1ForAll]

Originally Posted by moff

Why should we have to pay $1000 to fix negative aspects of the car? Would it not have made more sense for BMW to have rectified these two issues during the build process?

Many people will argue that when they are already spending a lot of money on what is essentially a small car that these 'problems' should not be there.

5th Gear as good as Top Gear !!!! Seriously? Did you watch the whole of last nights episode or just the 135i highlights? It was terminally dull last night, painful to watch the first 50 minutes until the 135i section.

It's no surprise that 5th Gear has a tiny television audience in the UK compared to Top Gear, and no surprise again that it won't be exported to the US as Top Gear is.

Opinions are like belly buttons.:drinking:

[moff]

I think my point is that it could have better. I have ordered the car so obviously I like it, I just wish it came from the factory 'perfect' e.g. no understeer and weighing 1400kg, not 1540kg.

All the UK reviews summarise the car as good but not as 'exciting' as they would have hoped for, something that I can agree with having driven the car.

This in part is due to the front end breaking away quite early in corners due to the narrow tyres. This has nothing to do with the car not being 'track focused'.

I for one was hoping the car was going to be closer to the original E30 M3, but it is also heavier than I expected.

I fully agree that understeer is generally 'dialled' into most cars handling from the factory, but this has not been a criticism of the 335i Coupe by the same motoring press.

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by E82TT6

My money is on somewhere in the 7:12 range.




^Joke

i was thinking it would be the first to break the -7 min mark..

[grant]

Originally Posted by TrojanBMW

It seems most reviews I've read are amazed how fast the 135i is despite its handling shortcomings.

Does it make sense then, that once the tuners get a hold of the 135 that it would completely smoke a car like the Cayman and even a Cayman S, even if the Porsches had some tuner bits on it.

I absolutely think that a tuned 135i will smoke a Cayman S in objective performance measurements, but I don't think it will ever deliver as involving a driving experience (subjective feel from the superior steering feel, lighter weight and mid-engined layout).

[Naradanoir]

Thank you! Loved the video. I would have liked to see Tiff take the 135 out for a spin. He is an excellent driver - his behind the wheel commentary is great. Top Gear bring on The Stig - He'll really push it to its limits!