1M's available

[Smiley1175]

Originally Posted by sharkatron

I really want to! But can't decide whether to spend the dollars on a 1m or just mod my current drive. Yeah I know, an 'm' car will always be different and special... But I've never hit the modding scene much till now.

I was in the exact same position. I resisted the urge to look at the 1M and I don't have the patients to wait. Every time I'd see a new one here I'd reconsider.

On Sunday I decided I'm modding the vert and sinking whatever it takes to make it how I want it.
On Monday I test drove a 1M, deposit that afternoon, drove a new one home Thursday.

The test drive opened my eyes and I realised I'd never get the 135i be like a 1M. The difference is chalk and cheese. The 1M was the car for me.

[Zuzu]

Originally Posted by Smiley1175

The test drive opened my eyes and I realised I'd never get the 135i be like a 1M. The difference is chalk and cheese. The 1M was the car for me.

Agree 1000%.... Except never got to test drive before purchase due to paying deposit in 2010 on initial release.

Dont understand how posters who have never owned/driven a 1M can even compare..

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

I disagree. it is easily worth more... no comparison. People who have not driven shouldn't compare the cars. call me biased, but its just a fact!

Ian I think you misunderstand, we're talking about new vs second had, not 135 vs 1M.

[david.orr]

Congrats guys! Good to have such passionate discussion towards the end of a e82 model life. Most other forums would just slow down to a quiet death.

Now we need to continue the discussion over a cuppa at Alexandria?!

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

True
I just find it amusing that people who haven't even driven both cars feel free to pass opinions that there can't be much difference.

I think you are missing my point. What I am trying to say is if you put the M bits on a 135 then they would be the same.

[Ausfredy]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

True
I just find it amusing that people who haven't even driven both cars feel free to pass opinions that there can't be much difference.

thanks Ian and to many off them here

[Alpine*]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

I think if you added ALL the M bits it would cost a bit more than $10k ... Many aftermarket products are far superior to M bits. Widening the track, dual mass flywheel, LSD, full M3 suspension, cooling, steering rack, etc.... lots to change.

I agree that for $15-20k you could make a 135i a better track car than a stock 1M, but it wouldnt make a very nice DD. Bringing a 335 to M3 levels probably cost more as you need a S65 too.

AND, as I keep saying, put the cash in the 135 and loose most of the money you just put in when you look at resale. Buy a 1M and get all the performance 'most' will need for the road and NOT loose the value of the mods. Better still, the car can be a tax deduction if purchased as is, aka a1M, versus net out of pocket cash on a 135.

[VGR00]

Originally Posted by sharkatron

Hmmmm... My new car came with 8kms on it - did I get rolled or what? :

I got ripped!!!! Mine had 10klms....... Just spoiled my weekend

[BBK]

Ian, I don't think you are getting it... Sure the M bits may cost more than 10k. But do all those bits add up to extra time on the track? After first hand experience, no, it doesn't. The driver has the biggest effect on it.

If I can beat a 1M on my first track day, with only a tune, DP's and swaybar? And might I add, crappy tyres at the front and super sticky tyres at the rear? Understeering more than a FWD car... Let's not forget no LSD! Then IMO, a modified 135i can be just as good, if not better on the track. Tim, absolutely we were going faster than the Ferrari's but we all know we'd take one of those over ours!

As a daily, the 1M would be better, no question. Purely because it has the looks, otherwise it's a very similar car to a modded 135i. Although the steering in the 1M is definitely better than the 135i. And yes, I've driven both, back to back...

There's no need to get all upset over this. We all know we'd take a 1M over a 135i any day of the week. It's the better platform, but purely talking track times for a modified 135i v a stock 1M, the 135i can be made to be quicker. Simple. And probably without spending much.

[sparoz]

Interesting new discussion. I am afraid I am not qualify to contribute to comparing the 1m and moded 135i on track as I have never driven the 1M or the 135i on track. I believe there is only 1 active member here who has owned and driven both a modded 135i and 1M on track. Unfortunately, his was a N55 so it is still not quite a direct comparison.

As for stock vs stock in DD, 1M win hands down. Many of us took the leap of faith jumping from a 135i to a 1M without even seeing the car. Is it 20k better, I guess each to their own. Depends on how you appreciate driving, then how much it is worth is going to be different.

Just like the manual vs auto debate, there will always be disagreement. How you see this is really personal. Just like second hand vs brand new, or how much you are willing to spend on mods... it is all personal. At the end, what seems illogical to one person could be very logical to another.

If we all want to make logic out of this - we should all be driving a second hand Toyota.

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by sharkatron

I really want to! But can't decide whether to spend the dollars on a 1m or just mod my current drive. Yeah I know, an 'm' car will always be different and special... But I've never hit the modding scene much till now.

There are plenty of them in Melbourne, and I am sure one of the members here are quite happy to let you have a drive. If you can't get anyone who would let you, you are quite happy to fly up here and drive mine.

Originally Posted by pavo335

tbh aside from the Aesthetics of flared guards and interior, i.e if you are only looking at the 'drive' i would suggest you'd be better served buying a good low k n54 and spending 10k on performance mods (tune, suspension etc) and you'd be lookign at roughly half the cost of a 1m for 99.9% of the driving pleasure. Oh and you wouldn't be scared to take it to the track either like most of the 1m boys

Law of diminishing return applies to everything . What the utility is worth to one person is completely different to another.

Originally Posted by Ian///M

Sorry, but that is BS.... I played that modding game with my 135i.... tune, LSD, suspension. No comparison to the 1M (which does go to the track )

I agree that if you aren't tracking then really no point in getting a M, the 135i is an awesome street car.... better still pick up a E92 M3 for $85k and it is a win-win

Or a 996 is around 60k now? Only problem with M3 is the fun starts at 5-6k revs which is 100km in 2nd.

Originally Posted by BBK

I've driven a 135 and 1M back to back... no comment in case I start a war :-p

You have already done.

Originally Posted by pavo335

Ian, any comparison times from tuned 135 and stock 1m?

Don't have to tell us the real time, just the delta. .

Originally Posted by BBK

Haha yeah Zuzu chilling out for a bit :-D

Although, I will say at a track day I went to I was as fast or faster than a 1M whilst running possibly the worst tyre combo ever and only just tune, downpipes and a swaybar. I guess there are many factors, putting the same driver in both cars should yield different results, but just because you have the better car on paper doesn't mean it will be better on the road/track.

+1, driver's training is the cheapest mod to decrease lap times. Then it is the tyres.

Originally Posted by pavo335

um..... actually.... i was taking the piss about the track thing wasn't I, forgot about that

dont get me wrong, I just see a 135/1m as a pile of parts and i figure (rightly or not) that if i take the 1m parts and shove them on a 135 then i got a 1m, simple.

I am curious though of those who had a 135 and upgraded to a 1m did you notice any improvements in track times?

Closest mod 1M in Australia was Way's with the wider track and better brakes etc. In his own words, the modded 135i was no way near the 1M. That is not on track though I believe and he didn't have long in the car. Yes, his lap time improve. I think taka if he's still around would be able to make more comment because he's driven the highly modified 135i and now owns the 1M. Not sure if he's taken the 1M on track yet.

Originally Posted by Ian///M

That's like saying a M3 is a 335i with a different engine and suspension. The 'difference' is the key here!

I have drive a 335i and M3 on the same day... completely different cars...equally different to the 135i & 1M.

+1. Even with the same engine I would say the difference between 1M and 135i (in stock form) is close to as big as the M3 and 335i despite the different engine. The gripe with the E92 M3 for me has always been to enjoy the engine, you will need to take it to track. M3 in DD form is all about its chasis, like the 1M and 135i.

Originally Posted by pavo335

the reason i didn't pick the m3 and 335 to compare is the engine is different BUT and N54 135 and 1m is a much closer starting point.

Ian i'm not trolling but would be interested if you took both to the track or just the 1m? How about a trip to wakefield on the 28th?

He has.

Originally Posted by pavo335

I brought this up for those who may not be able to afford a 1m, Or are looking for a cheap track capable/nice daily drive car. the n54 is the piss easy part been tuning them for a while and its shit cheap. thats why i said for 10k you can buy a whole lot of M suspension parts and I'd say your gonna get real close to 1m handling

If that doesn't make sense let me know

It would be close, but different. I think the wider track adds a lot to the 1M in terms of performance. I am modding the 1M and those parts we took are for the 135i.

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Of course the 1M is a better car, no question about it. I'm just not paying new car price for anything ever again.

Looking forward to next year when you become one of us .

Originally Posted by sharkatron

Was just speaking my thoughts - didn't think this was going to be so hotly debated - my bad!

In any case, with regards to second hand car - yes, savings to be had. But I dunno, something special about being the first one to drive it. Yeah I know I know - is it worth $15-20k? I guess that's personal. Not to mention you don't know how the car has been treated prior to you getting in it. Wasn't there this vid of a new white 1m being hooliganised by some techs (burnouts, wheelies) a little while ago? Massive rage about it not being able to be sold (I'm sure it eventually did) - would you buy that car? Having said that though, you could look at the flip side and just thank them for 'breaking in' the car for you I guess it comes down to how think a new car should be 'broken in'.

Not necessary, depending on the second hand deal by the time you put into tax considerations it is not 15-20k. If you start including the time to find the right second hand and to buy it new, it would even be less. The difference in BMWs is not that great. As a comparison, the 120D used 12 months old I had for 2 years cost 22k at changeover. The 125i was 30k. The 120D if new would be 1/3 less to start with so if you are talking about the same car it could be close. By the time you add in the EPP as John said, it would swing the other way.

Originally Posted by pavo335

I think you are missing my point. What I am trying to say is if you put the M bits on a 135 then they would be the same.

If you replace 335i with all the M3 bits it would be the same... If you replace all the Hyundai parts with a Ferrari's - it would be the same...

Originally Posted by BM_125

I got ripped!!!! Mine had 10klms....... Just spoiled my weekend

Mine had 23km - if that makes you feel better. .

[BBK]

I think you are upset... Every time there is a discussion like this you get pretty uptight about it. I would be too if I spent money modding a 135i, lost money on selling it, then paid more money for a similar car? You just need to justify to yourself that you made the right decision, and that's fine! Because everyone does it.

You are quite biased, as I mentioned before, everytime someone says VO is not the best colour you defend it like we are idiots... I'm not the one that needs to sleep better at night. Everyone has their own opinions and preferences. Just because you bought something you like, doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you.

All I know is, the 1M is a great car, it beats the 135i in stock form in every way. But once you mod the 135i and keep the 1M stock, the differences become smaller and smaller. Take it to the track, and if driven by the same driver I don't think there would be much in it. I've seen it first hand. And my car was not modded very much, and in case of the tyres, it was modded worse than stock. Fact is, if we are talking purely about numbers, I would put money on a properly modded 135i being just as quick, or quicker than a 1M.

[sparoz]

Just want to mention Ian is the only person who has taken a modded 135i and a 1M on track. He would be the only person who is actively in the forums who is qualify to make a comparison between the two cars on track.

[sparoz]

Just saw the the supercharged M3 on the front page, may be I should shop for a second hand one and let the 1M go. All my major mods will just bolt straight in. .

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by BBK

All I know is, the 1M is a great car, it beats the 135i in stock form in every way. But once you mod the 135i and keep the 1M stock, the differences become smaller and smaller. Take it to the track, and if driven by the same driver I don't think there would be much in it. I've seen it first hand. And my car was not modded very much, and in case of the tyres, it was modded worse than stock. Fact is, if we are talking purely about numbers, I would put money on a properly modded 135i being just as quick, or quicker than a 1M.

Hey Richard, What about adrian's (dontask) car vs a 1M around a track. That would be fun to see.

[Drawn05]

I am sure a sticked thread such as "1 Series Track Times/standings" like the drag racing thread would be a good way of making this more than just a fanboi argument.

That said, I am not sure which tracks offer standardised timing so maybe it isnt possible

[1q2w3e4r]

Too many variables IMO with circuit racing/times to judge. Only really consistent way would be timing the same driver in both cars on the same day with control tyres. But that's just my 2c. I reckon just enjoy what you have

[Alpine*]

Go create a new "p1ssing contest thread" if there is this need to have the last word, dyno wars all over FFS.


Back OT

Originally Posted by AlpineM3E92

The new Australian Record!

8 Cars

[BBK]

How am I being a troll? Do you know what a troll is?

Stupid comparisons? How was it stupid? Lack of knowledge? I'm just saying what happened. Facts. Not bias. The driver of the 1M was experienced, been to track days before and had the 1M for a while. I had never been to a track. I think it's as a fair as a comparison available. Has anyone else been to a track day with both cars there?

I never once said the 1M was crap. I repeatedly said I'd take the 1M any day of the week. It's a great car, and better than the 135i in every aspect. But like I said, and you conveniently ignored, once you mod the 135i, the numbers speak for themselves...


Edwin, Adrian's car was there, and it was similar to the other 135's there. So as quick, or quicker than the 1M. Again, it's all in the driver. I think the only driver that was clearly better than us was Vinney.

[pavo335]

Perhaps I'm missing something but wouldn't this kit http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-E8X-E9X-to-M3-Supension-conversion-kit-bmw-M3conversion.htm

Give you 1m suspension plus 2k for a diff and 1k for a tune and for under 7k your 90% there :

Sure a 1m has lots of other bits but for a cheap track car, sounds like a winner to me

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

I doubt Edwin's car would manage a track day in summer without overheating

True Ian. Maybe if i put the top down it will help with the cooling.

Richard was just addressing me in the post Ian. He wasn't refering to my car on the track.

BTW it's interesting how most magazines refer to the BMW convertibles as a better track car/handling than the coupes in stock form. My car is braced quite heavily and after my recent track day at Wakefield the flex wasn't too bad but the understeer was horrible.

[510135]

I know a forum member with a modded 135i who has a 5 second quicker lap time over a stock 1M driver at QR. The 1M driver also has plenty of experience on track.
Stock on stock the 1M would always win. At the end of the day there all nuts and bolts..