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      07-14-2018, 11:02 AM   #1
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The timing of the Russian indictments...

Clearly the White House could have delayed until after the kleptocratic conclave in Helsinki. But this could cast shade on Trump's affirmation of Russia's control of Crimea and the consequent rollback of sanctions. No need: Trump has complete control over the Republican party and his base. NATO has been fatally weakened, the G7 is in tatters. Yes Vlad, we can do this.
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      07-14-2018, 11:11 AM   #2
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Molotov- Ribbentrop reenactment coming to city near me.
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      07-14-2018, 11:22 AM   #3
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good historical reference Lups...

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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Molotov- Ribbentrop reenactment coming to city near me.
Except that there were clear ideological differences between the two sides in 1939.
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      07-14-2018, 11:23 AM   #4
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Right right. Yet alll these little rich NATO countries expect us to defend them if and when shit hits the fan but also foot the bill. Yeah fuck that, 2% is not much to ask for.
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      07-14-2018, 11:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Except that there were clear ideological differences between the two sides in 1939.
True Boomie, but think how white America would get by accepting all Finns, swedes and Norwegians as refugees!
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You're still a little new here, so I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever Lups types gibberish, this is an opportunity for you to imagine it to be whatever you'd like it to be.
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      07-14-2018, 11:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Right right. Yet alll these little rich NATO countries expect us to defend them if and when shit hits the fan but also foot the bill. Yeah fuck that, 2% is not much to ask for.
While I agree that the other member countries need to adhere to the agreement of reaching 2% by 2024, let's take a quick peek at some numbers:


...As to 2017, NATO’s military budget is 1.29 billion euro ($1.38 billion), the civilian budget is 234.4 million euro ($252 million). Member countries should contribute based on Gross National Income. Under that formula, the U.S. contributes 22.144 % of the NATO budget, followed by Germany (14.65 %), France (10.63 % and Britain (9.84 %)...

Let's round that out to $2B USD total for the sake of easy math.

So the US contributes 22% of $2B USD = $440M USD. Our total defense spending in 2017 = $686B USD.

In other words, we spend ~0.064% of our total military budget "on NATO".

I know what you're going to say: "If those nations spent more on their own defense, we could reallocate our overseas resources elsewhere." and, in theory, you'd be right.

The reality is that those bases/installations are where they are because it benefits US, not the host nations. All of the NATO countries could increase their spending to 10% of GDP and it wouldn't register so much as a blip on our Federal military spending. We wouldn't move a single service member because of it, let alone an entire military installation.

This is a tempest in a teapot.
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      07-14-2018, 11:58 AM   #7
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deplorable ignorance...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Right right. Yet alll these little rich NATO countries expect us to defend them if and when shit hits the fan but also foot the bill. Yeah fuck that, 2% is not much to ask for.
2% by 2024 was the goal and still is; nothing to do with Trump's posturing. The U.S. spends well less than 2% of GDP on the defence of Europe, so it is actually a good deal.
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      07-14-2018, 02:02 PM   #8
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Have NATO member nations ever come to the assistance of another member country when it was attacked?
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      07-14-2018, 02:35 PM   #9
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Have NATO member nations ever come to the assistance of another member country when it was attacked?
Once, yes.

Guess who it was....
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      07-14-2018, 02:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Once, yes.

Guess who it was....
Iceland?
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      07-14-2018, 03:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
While I agree that the other member countries need to adhere to the agreement of reaching 2% by 2024, let's take a quick peek at some numbers:


...As to 2017, NATOís military budget is 1.29 billion euro ($1.38 billion), the civilian budget is 234.4 million euro ($252 million). Member countries should contribute based on Gross National Income. Under that formula, the U.S. contributes 22.144 % of the NATO budget, followed by Germany (14.65 %), France (10.63 % and Britain (9.84 %)...

Let's round that out to $2B USD total for the sake of easy math.

So the US contributes 22% of $2B USD = $440M USD. Our total defense spending in 2017 = $686B USD.

In other words, we spend ~0.064% of our total military budget "on NATO".

I know what you're going to say: "If those nations spent more on their own defense, we could reallocate our overseas resources elsewhere." and, in theory, you'd be right.

The reality is that those bases/installations are where they are because it benefits US, not the host nations. All of the NATO countries could increase their spending to 10% of GDP and it wouldn't register so much as a blip on our Federal military spending. We wouldn't move a single service member because of it, let alone an entire military installation.

This is a tempest in a teapot.
excellent research!
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      07-14-2018, 03:02 PM   #12
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I believe it was for the US after 9/11-afganistan?
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      07-14-2018, 03:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
I believe it was for the US after 9/11-afganistan?
Give that man a cigar!
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      07-14-2018, 03:23 PM   #14
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Thanks-tryin' to quit those, haha!
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      07-14-2018, 03:26 PM   #15
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Thanks-tryin' to quit those, haha!
Not until we meet up and have one!! Nope...not allowed!!
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      07-14-2018, 05:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Give that man a cigar!
Exactly. Only one country in the history of NATO has actually taken advantage of the "You attack one you attack all" policy and it was us. The rest of the members came to our defense and got their young men and women killed for us in Iraq and Afghanistan on our behalf. Yeah, we pay a little more, but we've also used the service. Seems pretty low-rent of us to be trashing the other NATO members.
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      07-14-2018, 05:32 PM   #17
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Trashing allies and promoting russia is a disgrace. I've served with our allies and they have saved american lives.
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      07-14-2018, 05:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Right right. Yet alll these little rich NATO countries expect us to defend them if and when shit hits the fan but also foot the bill. Yeah fuck that, 2% is not much to ask for.
The NATO countries aren't the ones who need defending.
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      07-14-2018, 07:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Have NATO member nations ever come to the assistance of another member country when it was attacked?
Haven't Greece and Turkey caught a walk? In the 70s?
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      07-14-2018, 09:55 PM   #20
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Haven't Greece and Turkey caught a walk? In the 70s?
My understanding is that article 5 has only been invoked once, shortly after 9-11. I'm certainly no historian though. If anyone has info to the contrary, regarding Article 5, I'd love to see it.
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      07-15-2018, 11:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Clearly the White House could have delayed until after the kleptocratic conclave in Helsinki.
Are you suggesting the White House controlled the timing of Friday's indictments? If yes; how does that sync with the next sentence in your post (quoted below) that implies the indictments "cast shade" on President Trump's goals?

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Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
But this could cast shade on Trump's affirmation of Russia's control of Crimea and the consequent rollback of sanctions.
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      07-15-2018, 11:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Have NATO member nations ever come to the assistance of another member country when it was attacked?
Haven't Greece and Turkey caught a walk? In the 70s?
Omg....Siri can really suck.

Fought a war.
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