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      06-21-2009, 01:28 PM   #1
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1 Series and the M

Lord knows there have been quite a few threads on the M setup coming to the 1. Questions on when the SuperSports model will come out, if/when a "M1" will come, questions on its engine.

They are doing a national tour of the M cars. Certain people got the invites to go drive the M. I got my hands on one and so I went. It was in FLL at the Antique Auto Museum. I got to talk one-on-one with the BMW NA M Division bigwig who ran the demonstration. Got a quick dose of info. As for the 1 Series being changed, it won't happen in this revision. They like to come out with the M in the beginning of the model series. The one has been out for 3 years here, but longer in Europe. In the next model, there could be a 1. No guarantee. As for the supersport model, still in works for this model.

As for the E92, they still are planning to move away from normal aspiration. With the new turbo design, they keep pushing hard to reduce the turbo lag. The demonstration gave good info on that.

They give us a solo test drive. I will have to admit that the only other BMW I would ever consider past the 135 would be only an M3. It is a beast. Switch on M-Power, turn off DSC, and just that alone gives it a hell of a punch. I also found the DSG interesting. Not perfect, it definitely has some operational annoyances, but the shifting of gears, how it keeps two gears on at all times and the dual clutch just bounces between them, that is pretty darn impressive.

I am still a 1 Addict, I still love my 1, and the price tag on the M still keeps it away for me. But if they actually came out with a true M1, I don't know how I could resist.

Here's some pics, enjoy!
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      06-21-2009, 05:33 PM   #2
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Cool pictures, but the 1er has only been here in the US for a little over a year.
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      06-21-2009, 05:44 PM   #3
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I thought they always released an M after the regular versions of a chassy were on sale
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      06-21-2009, 05:57 PM   #4
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AGGGGGGG, dont get me started! BMW is waisting time slapping M badges on these X5,X6 dinosaurs, but they couldn't slap the M on the 135 that deserves it?!?!?!? Nonsense i say!
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      06-21-2009, 06:23 PM   #5
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I was invited to M-tour as well I am going on 6/28 in Terrytown NY looking forward to it.
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      06-21-2009, 07:54 PM   #6
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Cool, thanks for sharing!
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      06-21-2009, 08:24 PM   #7
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So, they said nothing about changes for MY2010 yeah? As someone who has a deposit on a 2010 I'd be interested
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      06-21-2009, 09:00 PM   #8
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M plan for 1 series has been discussed as early as prelaunch of 1 in America. I have always stood by the fact that because Bmw is merely extending the product market in middle of the product life cycle they would not build a m1 lasting 3 years. I am really curious about the z2m or new m coupe based from z2 platform. The z vetison of m has always appear more exotic and definitely more purebred against it's 3 series cousin. If it's priced right I may be in another Bmw sober than planned
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      06-21-2009, 09:48 PM   #9
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Imagine an M1 "a la 135"

2950lbs
375hp - 3.4L bored S54 block - single turbo - closed deck - inline 6
Large core Radiator and intercooler
Dual oil coolers
DCT
LSD
Real "M" suspension
Slotted/drilled rotors with 6 piston in front, 4 piston in rear
18x8.5 with 255's, 18x9.5 with 275's
Racing bucket seats

$45k ....
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      06-22-2009, 09:25 AM   #10
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thanks for the photos, tbird
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      06-22-2009, 09:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmunro View Post
Imagine an M1 "a la 135"

2950lbs
375hp - 3.4L bored S54 block - single turbo - closed deck - inline 6
Large core Radiator and intercooler
Dual oil coolers
DCT
LSD
Real "M" suspension
Slotted/drilled rotors with 6 piston in front, 4 piston in rear
18x8.5 with 255's, 18x9.5 with 275's
Racing bucket seats

$45k ....
and no god awful runflats please
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      06-22-2009, 10:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmunro View Post
Imagine an M1 "a la 135"

2950lbs
375hp - 3.4L bored S54 block - single turbo - closed deck - inline 6
Large core Radiator and intercooler
Dual oil coolers
DCT
LSD
Real "M" suspension
Slotted/drilled rotors with 6 piston in front, 4 piston in rear
18x8.5 with 255's, 18x9.5 with 275's
Racing bucket seats

$45k ....
There's no way they can drop 400lbs from this chassis. I'd bet we wouldn't even see 200lbs of weight reduction from an M version of the 1 Series.
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      06-22-2009, 10:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
There's no way they can drop 400lbs from this chassis. I'd bet we wouldn't even see 200lbs of weight reduction from an M version of the 1 Series.
to start, un necicary electronics you know, the alarm, sirus, all the junk that the car is prewired for, half the audio components ie too many speakers, big heavy amp, sound deadening, sunroof, the heavy seats
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      06-22-2009, 10:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
There's no way they can drop 400lbs from this chassis. I'd bet we wouldn't even see 200lbs of weight reduction from an M version of the 1 Series.
That would be ok if they could get 440 HP from it with a 4 year warranty.
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      06-22-2009, 10:28 AM   #15
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jeremyc74 -- Can you elaborate why?
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      06-22-2009, 10:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
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jeremyc74 -- Can you elaborate why?

There's just no way to remove it. People like to blame electronics for the weight, but that's not where the weight comes from. You could dump the entire stereo system - wiring, Nav, amps, speakers, everything, and you'd probably have a grand whopping total of 30-40lbs. Electroncis just aren't that heavy.

BMW isnt' going to sell the car with no stereo because very few people would buy it, so that's not going to happen.

Now, they can probably pick up 20 or 30lbs with lightweight seats, but they've still got to have airbags in them, and they've still got to be comfortable, so I wouldn't count on much more than that. They'll throw on a CF roof, and that will get them about 20lbs..maybe, and another 20 from the hood if they can get away with it from a crash test point of view, so we're up to a little over 100lbs. Maybe they can gain another 30-40lbs with lighter wheels.

The bottom line is that cars today are heavy because of crash standards. The overall structure HAS to be heavy to pass, and they have to have multiple airbags, and the associated sensors, and that stuff isn't going to go away on an M Version. A 400lbs weight reduction on an existing chassis just isn't realistic.
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      06-22-2009, 10:39 AM   #17
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I think your under estimating the weight of the subwoofers and all that wiring for stuff cars dont come with, ie alarm, sirus

and those sunroofs are really heavy

bmw cut almost 400 pounds off the e46 with the csl version
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      06-22-2009, 10:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_mega View Post
I think your under estimating the weight of the subwoofers and all that wiring for stuff cars dont come with, ie alarm, sirus

and those sunroofs are really heavy

bmw cut almost 400 pounds off the e46 with the csl version

We're not talking about a CSL version though, we're talking about an M version. The CSL takes it to another level, and it's not meant for mass consumption. It's a track package and people would bitch endlessly about the things they did to reduce weight on that car.

The woofers in this car weight a couple of lbs each. Same goes for the amp. They're tiny. The entire system isn't going away in an M car, and even if it did it's not worth even 50lbs.
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      06-22-2009, 11:35 AM   #19
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I discussed the weight issue with the BMW M guy (who by the way is a member of Bimmerpost.com, but requested that I not give his username. Out of courtesy, I will keep it to myself). We both agreed.

What Jeremy is saying is true, about weight being more for frame and crash. Yes, you could start doing the CF for items, and weight saving batteries, and all of that. But let me tell you, doing a "tiny" bit of thrashing on the M3 Coupe, you know what, the extra weight doesn't mean a thing.

If you drive a E92 M3 and you complain that it is not fast enough, then you truly TRULY fall into the category of "Spoiled Rotten Never-Earned-Anything-In-Your-Life Brat" and you truly are wasting the oxygen out of the atmosphere we breathe. If you can't live with 4.1 seconds and you just desperately need to move from $75K price to $300K+ price to have a car that will do 3.6, you are a greedy little POS!

The weight is insignificant. If anything, it makes for a smoother highway ride, more stability in unstable conditions (rain, following 18-wheelers, etc). The M3 has plenty power to handle the weight.
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      06-22-2009, 11:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
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If you drive a E92 M3 and you complain that it is not fast enough, then you truly TRULY fall into the category of "Spoiled Rotten Never-Earned-Anything-In-Your-Life Brat" and you truly are wasting the oxygen out of the atmosphere we breathe. If you can't live with 4.1 seconds and you just desperately need to move from $75K price to $300K+ price to have a car that will do 3.6, you are a greedy little POS!

The weight is insignificant. If anything, it makes for a smoother highway ride, more stability in unstable conditions (rain, following 18-wheelers, etc). The M3 has plenty power to handle the weight.

I don't agree with anything you said there at all. Wanting a faster car doesn't make a lazy brat, or greedy, and the notion that you can pass judgemnt one someone because of it is just absurd.

Also, weight is the enemy of performance and efficiency in a car. It's NOT insignificant, and it doesn't add anything to stability or ride quality. It's a neccesary evil that has to be delt with, and lighter will always perform better, with all else being equal. You can't overcome the downsides of additional weight by just adding more power. If that were the case the Veyron would be the fastest street car in the world around a track, but it's far from it because it weighs so much.
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      06-22-2009, 11:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I am really curious about the z2m or new m coupe based from z2 platform. The z vetison of m has always appear more exotic and definitely more purebred against it's 3 series cousin. If it's priced right I may be in another Bmw sober than planned
Same here. From what I've read, the Z2 sounds pretty intriguing.
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      06-22-2009, 01:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
I don't agree with anything you said there at all. Wanting a faster car doesn't make a lazy brat, or greedy, and the notion that you can pass judgemnt one someone because of it is just absurd.

Also, weight is the enemy of performance and efficiency in a car. It's NOT insignificant, and it doesn't add anything to stability or ride quality. It's a neccesary evil that has to be delt with, and lighter will always perform better, with all else being equal. You can't overcome the downsides of additional weight by just adding more power. If that were the case the Veyron would be the fastest street car in the world around a track, but it's far from it because it weighs so much.
Ok, to elaborate, I meant weight "to the M3".

Yes, "in general", weight is a big issue. I totally agree. The two biggest performance gains, IMHO, come from "better breathing" (intake/exhaust), and reduction of weight. My point, which I didn't elaborate enough on, was that on the E92 M3, weight is not an issue.

Weight does add stability, as it makes for a smoother ride, and the vehicle is less reactive to outside influence. When I am behind an 18-wheeler in my 1, I feel a little shaking, but minimal. Behind one in my mother's 5 Series, it barely even moves. In my little Focus, I am chucked around like a bilge rat. Suspension helps (getting it replaced soon), but weight adds for a more stable ride.

As for my point of "brat", I still stand behind that for the M3, and here's why. The M Division was built to make a car that will be ultra fast and perform ultra well for regular daily driving. When discussing the M3 with the BMW M Division guy, we both agreed on the point of engine vs car, as the Lotus Exige is only a 1.8 4cyl, but the car is super quick. His specific comment on that was "You can't drive that to the market though. The M3 was made to do your regular driving, that is our goal, to enhance your regular driving".

If you are headed out to work, or to the gym, or to the market, and you say to yourself "Golly gee, 4.1 seconds isn't good enough! I need a Lambo to go to the market." then yes, my point holds water. On a racetrack, yes, get a Lambo LP560-4 over the M3. For regular driving, if the M3 isn't good enough for you, then yes, you are a brat, and I stand behind that.

I have my 135 vert, and while if I won the Lottery I would be out getting a M3 vert in a heartbeat, and while I loved driving the M3, I do not feel like I am less for not having the M3. I love my 135, it is quick, responsive, and I am happy with what I have and I am thankful for what I have.

Signed-The 1Addict!!
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