BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-05-2018, 11:31 AM   #111
houtan
Colonel
houtan's Avatar
700
Rep
2,430
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: socal

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2011 135i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
The Misumi washers I used for the upper shock mounts came to $23.79 shipped. Not too bad. I couldn't justify an extra $500 for the DAs as I was only going for a "fast road" build.

The Misumi washers are a Shore 90, ether based polyurethane. Currently $8.19 each and ship in 7 days.
where were you at 3 years ago!! LOL. I have no idea how you figured out and located that bushing, but it's awesome you did and others can benefit. When I called TC on the issue, the response was basically "never had the issue before".
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2018, 11:33 AM   #112
houtan
Colonel
houtan's Avatar
700
Rep
2,430
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: socal

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2011 135i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Fantastic. Thank you for working out how to install the shorter shaft Mtype SA damper.



Looks like HPA sells the level sensor bracket a-la-carte now for ~$50. Is there any reason to buy their lower camber link kit? The OE 1M/M3 link is cheaper.

Think the Misumi washer can be installed with the remaining pieces of the Dinan RSM?
Nice. Its a lot of money for that piece, and you could probably make it yourself by bending some metal. I don't have the time so I would just buy it.

Link to kit? I bought my arms used from ebay for much less than new, so that is one advantage to piece the parts together yourself. I should have a table with all of the bolt part numbers. let me know if you need it.
Appreciate 1
fast1eddy269.50
      06-05-2018, 11:47 AM   #113
Suprgnat
Слава Украине!
Suprgnat's Avatar
Ukraine
2281
Rep
2,425
Posts

Drives: 2013 128i LMB 6MT ZMP Slicktop
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2013 128i  [9.58]
Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan View Post
where were you at 3 years ago!! LOL. I have no idea how you figured out and located that bushing, but it's awesome you did and others can benefit. When I called TC on the issue, the response was basically "never had the issue before".
Sorry, though my original post was in 2014...
__________________
Inertia is the enemy!
My car's photo history: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1570551
Appreciate 1
houtan700.00
      06-05-2018, 12:31 PM   #114
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3197
Rep
7,859
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
As much as Iike HPA it was far less expensive to order from TheBMWPartStore.
Only thing I would order from HPA would be the sensor bracket. Unless you're saying a part from thebmwpartstore does the trick.
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2018, 12:41 PM   #115
Suprgnat
Слава Украине!
Suprgnat's Avatar
Ukraine
2281
Rep
2,425
Posts

Drives: 2013 128i LMB 6MT ZMP Slicktop
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2013 128i  [9.58]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Only thing I would order from HPA would be the sensor bracket. Unless you're saying a part from thebmwpartstore does the trick.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the whole HPA kit. Yeah, the only thing I'd get from HPA it the bracket.

As a halogen owner, it's unclear why the stock 1M bracket wouldn't work.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/37142283617/
__________________
Inertia is the enemy!
My car's photo history: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1570551
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2018, 01:19 PM   #116
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3197
Rep
7,859
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the whole HPA kit. Yeah, the only thing I'd get from HPA it the bracket.

As a halogen owner, it's unclear why the stock 1M bracket wouldn't work.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/37142283617/
I'd guess that the attachment point on the M subframe is different.
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2018, 02:07 PM   #117
Suprgnat
Слава Украине!
Suprgnat's Avatar
Ukraine
2281
Rep
2,425
Posts

Drives: 2013 128i LMB 6MT ZMP Slicktop
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2013 128i  [9.58]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
I'd guess that the attachment point on the M subframe is different.
Ah.
__________________
Inertia is the enemy!
My car's photo history: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1570551
Appreciate 0
      06-06-2018, 10:12 AM   #118
houtan
Colonel
houtan's Avatar
700
Rep
2,430
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: socal

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2011 135i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
I'd guess that the attachment point on the M subframe is different.
Yeah it is. I had the M3 part and it didn't line up.
Appreciate 0
      06-06-2018, 01:08 PM   #119
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3197
Rep
7,859
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan View Post
I bought my arms used from ebay for much less than new, so that is one advantage to piece the parts together yourself. I should have a table with all of the bolt part numbers. let me know if you need it.
You inspired me and I found a set of used arms shipped for substantially less than even one of the arms would have been new. So now I gotta figure out bushings/bolts/etc.
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2018, 07:45 PM   #120
houtan
Colonel
houtan's Avatar
700
Rep
2,430
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: socal

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2011 135i  [9.80]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
You inspired me and I found a set of used arms shipped for substantially less than even one of the arms would have been new. So now I gotta figure out bushings/bolts/etc.
Awesome. I have a spreadsheet with part numbers. Let me know if you need it.
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2018, 08:12 PM   #121
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3197
Rep
7,859
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan View Post
Awesome. I have a spreadsheet with part numbers. Let me know if you need it.
Attach it/send it homie!
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2018, 09:31 PM   #122
Suprgnat
Слава Украине!
Suprgnat's Avatar
Ukraine
2281
Rep
2,425
Posts

Drives: 2013 128i LMB 6MT ZMP Slicktop
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2013 128i  [9.58]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Attach it/send it homie!
The picture I attached has 'em...
__________________
Inertia is the enemy!
My car's photo history: https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1570551
Appreciate 0
      06-08-2018, 05:48 AM   #123
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3197
Rep
7,859
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
The picture I attached has 'em...
Went back and looked! You da bomb man.
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      09-18-2018, 08:31 AM   #124
ornicar
Second Lieutenant
ornicar's Avatar
No_Country
133
Rep
261
Posts

Drives: 125i
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
Ah.


The 1M ; M3 Alloy Camber Lower Arms are differents, that is why, IMHO, this bracket is different & specific to these cars.
Appreciate 0
      12-12-2018, 09:41 AM   #125
tree233
Private
15
Rep
82
Posts

Drives: 2006 130i hotrod
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl View Post
The width of the bushing is identical to the toe arm but the diameter is slightly larger. If I remember correctly it was around 45.50mm. The diamter of the toe arm bushing is approximately 44mm, but needed to be slightly oversize to press in snugly. As I have a lathe, machining off a mm is not a big deal and can be done pretty easily. These bushings will not work unless theyre machined down.
Hey vtl, I'm scared.

I dropped off my ball joints to my machinist today to get them lathed down to 44.30mm dia. However tonight I've taken out the old bushings and measured the hole in the toe arm and it reads 44.50 - 44.90mm diameter depending which side I measure from...







FYI, I also plan to use these ball joints on the trailing arms. I've found that the standard toe arms actually use the same part number bushing as the trailing arms. So I though that measuring hole in the wheel carrier might give me some clarity. It turns out to be exactly 45mm dia.







So does the spring effect of the split bushing account for the difference in toe arm vs trailing arm/wheel carrier hole size? And therefore should these ball joints be lathed to different diameters for each?

I feel like I need an engineer to tell me what tolerance I need for an interference/press fit. But I don't know if it's different based on the material it's being pressed into...

fe1rx did you document the diameter of the camber arm hole that this ball joint was originally designed for? Or do you still have the camber arm available? Could you please measure the diameter?

Any advice asap from anyone knowledgeable would be heaps appreciated!
I know I haven't contributed much here yet but I'm just getting started with my 130i journey and plan to share my findings

And thank you SOOO much for your posts fe1rx!!
Appreciate 0
      12-12-2018, 03:43 PM   #126
vtl
Brigadier General
vtl's Avatar
Australia
1492
Rep
3,148
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 135i MT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tree233 View Post
Hey vtl, I'm scared.

I dropped off my ball joints to my machinist today to get them lathed down to 44.30mm dia. However tonight I've taken out the old bushings and measured the hole in the toe arm and it reads 44.50 - 44.90mm diameter depending which side I measure from...


FYI, I also plan to use these ball joints on the trailing arms. I've found that the standard toe arms actually use the same part number bushing as the trailing arms. So I though that measuring hole in the wheel carrier might give me some clarity. It turns out to be exactly 45mm dia.







So does the spring effect of the split bushing account for the difference in toe arm vs trailing arm/wheel carrier hole size? And therefore should these ball joints be lathed to different diameters for each?

I feel like I need an engineer to tell me what tolerance I need for an interference/press fit. But I don't know if it's different based on the material it's being pressed into...

fe1rx did you document the diameter of the camber arm hole that this ball joint was originally designed for? Or do you still have the camber arm available? Could you please measure the diameter?

Any advice asap from anyone knowledgeable would be heaps appreciated!
I know I haven't contributed much here yet but I'm just getting started with my 130i journey and plan to share my findings

And thank you SOOO much for your posts fe1rx!!
In my case I machined the parts down until they fit, and on average it was around 44.30. But this ended up being a wasted endeavour, the Febest bushings ended up lasting a month before they crapped out. Would probably have been ok if I purchased lemforder bushings and didn't weld them. You also need to put a bunch of washers in to make sure the boot doesn't rub on the subframe, ended up not being a great solution. Ended up buying a set of Hardrace toe arms instead.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2018, 01:31 AM   #127
tree233
Private
15
Rep
82
Posts

Drives: 2006 130i hotrod
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl View Post
Would probably have been ok if I purchased lemforder bushings and didn't weld them. You also need to put a bunch of washers in to make sure the boot doesn't rub on the subframe, ended up not being a great solution.
Thanks for the quick response vtl!

I figured out the reason for the difference is that you bought new arms whereas I've pressed the old bushings out of my existing arms, who's holes must have expanded slightly over time.

I'm hoping I have better luck with the Meyle bushings I'm installing with (hopefully) no need to tack weld. One of the reasons I went this option over the aftermarket options was for the long service life after all.

Do you think the washers affect the range of motion or effectiveness of controlling toe?

I'm feeling optimistic that this could still be a good option for the toe arms, along with the trailing arms.

I'll report back the results & longevity.
Appreciate 1
ornicar133.00
      12-13-2018, 03:47 PM   #128
vtl
Brigadier General
vtl's Avatar
Australia
1492
Rep
3,148
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 135i MT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tree233 View Post
Thanks for the quick response vtl!

I figured out the reason for the difference is that you bought new arms whereas I've pressed the old bushings out of my existing arms, who's holes must have expanded slightly over time.

I'm hoping I have better luck with the Meyle bushings I'm installing with (hopefully) no need to tack weld. One of the reasons I went this option over the aftermarket options was for the long service life after all.

Do you think the washers affect the range of motion or effectiveness of controlling toe?

I'm feeling optimistic that this could still be a good option for the toe arms, along with the trailing arms.

I'll report back the results & longevity.
In my case I also did not use brand new toe arms, I had a spare set of arms I worked on before fitting them. The washers shouldnt alter the range of motion, I actually found the performance of the custom toe arms was identical to the hardrace units I have in my car now.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2018, 08:34 PM   #129
fe1rx
Captain
1390
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: 135i, 328i, Cayman S
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tree233 View Post
fe1rx did you document the diameter of the camber arm hole that this ball joint was originally designed for? Or do you still have the camber arm available? Could you please measure the diameter?

Any advice asap from anyone knowledgeable would be heaps appreciated!
I know I haven't contributed much here yet but I'm just getting started with my 130i journey and plan to share my findings

And thank you SOOO much for your posts fe1rx!!
Both the trailing arm bushings and the toe link bushings can be replaced with Leforder p/n 3067901 or equivalent. (I believe Meyle 314 710 0005 is equivalent.) These bearings have an OD of 45.15 to 45.20 mm. (12 mm ID and 48 mm wide). This is not the camber arm spherical which is 47.3 mm OD, 14 mm ID and 55 mm wide. 3067901 is used in the OE rear upper arm (wishbone) but BMW does not identify this as a separate part in their parts catalog. (Google search 33326777980 and all will become clear.)

This OD sounds big for the toe arms but actually isn't. Because of the folded sheet metal construction it easily accomodates the bearing but is tight enought to be completely secure. I had an OE toe arm lying around so I pressed out the bushing and pressed in the outer race of one of these bearings. I didn't want to waste a good bearing so I tried it with the outer race of one I had disassembled.

Name:  Bushing Removed.jpg
Views: 1852
Size:  250.3 KB

It should be obvious that you must press the bearings in from the top of the arm as viewed in these photographs. Support the arm with a tube that nests into the formed radius, not on the thin formed edge, when both pressing in and pressing out and things will go much better than if you try to press against the thin formed edge.

Name:  Spherical Outer Race Installed.jpg
Views: 1786
Size:  232.1 KB

Bimmerworld sells a spherical bearing kit for the trailing arms, which I have recently installed. They provide no installation instructions with this particular kit so my instructions are based on my experience.

Name:  BimmerWorld E8X-E9X Trailing Link Bearing Set.jpg
Views: 1748
Size:  59.9 KB

The parts supplied were not Lemforder but were equivalent and measured 45.15 mm OD. The corresponding mounting holes are 45.00 mm, and this is a good hard interference fit. I recommend using 12 mm high tensile threaded rod to pull the bearings in if you are doing it on the car. 3/8" garden variety threaded rod will snap. 3/8" high tensile threaded rod or a 3/8" grade 8 bolt might work, but only just. Lubricate the threads ...

I strongly recommend grinding a short 45.00 mm diameter lead in onto the sphericals before you try to press them into the upright. I chucked them in a lathe and did it with a file. Very little material removal is needed.

Name:  Lead In.JPG
Views: 1843
Size:  214.7 KB

This might seem like splitting hairs, but it is one of those tricks that really makes a difference in terms of getting the bearing started straight. If it doesn't start straight, more pulling will not sort out your problem. Your tooling needs to be good for this job because, as I have said, it is a good hard pull to get the bushings into the upright in particular. Of course you must push on the outer race, not the inner or you willd destroy the bearings.

Name:  Pressed In.JPG
Views: 1828
Size:  263.9 KB

If you look carefully at the OE bushing installation into both the subframe and upright you will see that it is not exactly centred into the lug. The official BMW tool installs the bushings to a stop in the tooling. If you want to get your bearings installed just so, measure the depth of the original installation before you dismount the bushings. Then install the sphericals to the same depth, compensating for the slightly different width of the bushing outer shell and bearing outer race.

The same process works for the subrame end of the trailing arm. Again grinding a 45.00 mm diameter lead in really helps.

Name:  Subframe.JPG
Views: 1757
Size:  279.2 KB

Buying 4 of the sphericals yourself is quite a bit cheaper than getting the Bimmerworld kit but I needed to buy their kit to see what they were using.
Appreciate 3
vtl1492.00
Traf94.50
ornicar133.00
      12-13-2018, 09:59 PM   #130
vtl
Brigadier General
vtl's Avatar
Australia
1492
Rep
3,148
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW 135i MT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
really good post
Ah nice, so with this info we can just buy 4x Lemforder p/n 3067901 and press them into the subframe and knuckle.

I found I could not get the ball joints pressed into the toe arms, but this is before I had a hydraulic press to play with.

What are you thoughts on the upgrade? Any improvement?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2018, 12:39 PM   #131
fe1rx
Captain
1390
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: 135i, 328i, Cayman S
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl View Post
Ah nice, so with this info we can just buy 4x Lemforder p/n 3067901 and press them into the subframe and knuckle.

I found I could not get the ball joints pressed into the toe arms, but this is before I had a hydraulic press to play with.

What are you thoughts on the upgrade? Any improvement?
For me, this is part of a change to spherical bearings on every suspension arm joint front and back and is part of this Winter's science project. It will be Spring before I get to try it all out. My car is track only now so I am looking to get rid of suspension compliance everywhere I can.
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2018, 04:35 AM   #132
135
Captain
Australia
113
Rep
682
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
For me, this is part of a change to spherical bearings on every suspension arm joint front and back and is part of this Winter's science project. It will be Spring before I get to try it all out. My car is track only now so I am looking to get rid of suspension compliance everywhere I can.
+1 for another fe1rx science project! Looking forward to it.

Are you also going with solid engine, trans and diff mounts? I saw you already have the TMS solid RSFBs but they don't really add any additional NVH (well, not in my opinion).

When did your car become track only?
And how far are you going to take it? Aero and slicks?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST