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      12-29-2009, 06:02 PM   #1
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Buyers Beware: Do NOT Buy from OnGreenPerformance.com!!!

So a few days ago, I was in the market to buy an OEM piece I needed to replace in my car. My AC Module Screen was going wack for a while and realized I had some spare cash to do a little maintenance work. Went on Ebay to buy and found a vendor called ongreenperformance. The item was shipped swiftly and I must commend them on that. Unfortunately though, it was just buttons and not the screen I needed. And from there, it went downhill.

See how this came about via Ebay's messaging system:

From me:


"Hello, I had received the item just recently. Unfortunately I was under the impression that this also included the pixel screen. May I get the complete module? Thank you."


From ongreenperformance:


"The Pixel screen is built into the control module, unfortunately we don't sell that, your only two options there is either to find one used, or buy a new one from BMW. Let us know if we can help you further.
On Green Performance"

From me:


"If that is the case, I would like to place a return for this item since it is pertinent that I get the screen. Thats what is needed to be replaced. How do I go about in placing the return? The item has not been installed."

From ongreenperformance:


"As long as the item is brand new in the packaging and unused unopened you can return it. Its a 20% restock fee. Return the item along with a copy of your original invoice and a note as to reason for return-ordered wrong item to:
On Green Performance-Returns
PO Box 70128
Rosedale MD 21237

On Green Performance"

From me:


"Wow, 20%. I guess that should cover the return shipping cost and your profit margin quite well. For future reference, you should indicate that in your ads due to its significant high percentage value. Anyway as mentioned in the previous email, it's never installed. I didn't even take it out of the plastic bag it came with. I do hope I don't get penalized for ripping up the USPS packaging since that's the only way to open it up. Before sending this item out, I wanted to be certain that return shipping is under your tab due to the high restocking fee. Please advise, thank you."

From ongreenperformance:


"The Shipping box is of no concern to us as long as the plastic sleve is still intatced and sealed, and none of the buttons have been removed. Return policy as listed-
-Item must be Brand new in original unopened packaging
-20% Restocking fee on all Returns
-No Returns on Electrical items
-No Returns on Used Parts
-Buyer responsible for all S&H fees

We do not pay for return shipping and we don't refund the orginal shipping cost. Have a Good New Years
On Green Performance"

From me:


"I understand that I will not be refunded the shipping cost to me, but I will not tolerate the fact that you're expecting me to cover the shipping back to you when it would only cost less than $5 which still gives u a decent profit margin from your restocking fee. I'm trying to be fair here. But if you insist on these terms, you leave me no choice but to file a dispute with the basis that your ad did not indicate such a return policy and that the ad was not clear on the item's specifics. It's your call to lose on all of your restocking fee. Happy Holidays as well."

AND THIS IS WHERE IT GETS HORRENDOUS: THEY DARE GIVE ME A LESSON READING AND PHONICS, BUT CAN'T EVEN SPELL RIGHT


From ongreenperformance:


"Its not our fault that reading comprehesnion is not a skill you have. Read the damn listing it could not be more clear that is only a button set copied exactly from our listing-"You are bidding on a Brand New from BMW in BMW Packaging Climate Control Button Set for the below listed applications. These are BMW OEM Buttons, BMW knew the digital climate control buttons where prone to breaking so they released this button set, this is NOT a climate control unit, but just a front panel with buttons, its designed to take the buttons off you need to replace your old, worn out and cracked buttons on your unit"

It clearly states this is NOT a Climate control unit, and the set is to take off the buttons you need and put it on your unit. It can't be more clear, we have sold hundreads of these and your the first person ever to have reading comprehesnion probleam. Also our Refund policy is clearly stated on the Shipping and payment tab on the listing. Go to the listing and click the shipping in payment tab its right there to read. And lastly for gods sake look at the frigen picture on the listing theres no way it could be a module or have a screen in it, its white were the screen would be is your screen white-no its not. I mean I know the average IQ in Califonia is 100 pionts lower but seriously."

I guess I just became another victim of Ebay. I guess it was my mistake for not closely reading into the fine print nor did I click on all the tabs. I guess I've just been spoiled by the higher level customer service that vendors in our forums commit too. But that last response from them, definitely left a sour taste in my mouth. I've already went ahead and filed a dispute with Ebay and Paypal. At this point, I don't really care if I get the money back. But what I do know is I won't let this business be given another chance to conduct business with any of my BMW Brethren without a proper "heads up" to you. So let this be a warning to you guys.

Lesson Learned: Beauty is not skin deep. Read the fine print.
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      12-29-2009, 07:28 PM   #2
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Could you post the auction URL, to help us decide what transpired?
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      12-29-2009, 08:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Could you post the auction URL, to help us decide what transpired?

maybe this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...1225&viewitem=
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      12-29-2009, 08:48 PM   #4
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Could very well be, and thanks for making the effort for possibly finding it.

If that is the auction, I hate to say it, but it's fairly clear as to what each of the 6 should receive. Buttons, and not much more.

I will say that the OP was apparently hit with a grammar lesson by a 1st grader, which is more than wrong, though.
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      12-29-2009, 09:25 PM   #5
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Hmm, I have to admit. The item picture and description are quite clear to me.
Seems more like 415Banker got hit with the Buy-it-Now bug where we end up with an item we didn't actually want.
We've all done it.
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      12-29-2009, 09:25 PM   #6
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why didnt you ask the seller if it had a screen, could have made the life easier.
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      12-30-2009, 12:02 AM   #7
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I mean, sure, the guy was a douche, but he was right....
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      12-30-2009, 09:53 AM   #8
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So let me get this right... this guy buys from a merchant (either doesn't read or doesn't care about their return policy), is sent the part that was advertisted, then gets pissed off and threatens to take action against the merchant when it enforces its return policy? Sounds to me like the lesson from this post is vendors shouldn't do business with 415Banker.
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      12-30-2009, 12:44 PM   #9
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As mentioned on my previous post, I now know I was at fault at a certain degree. I was willing to compromise, but when I read this on their contact page on their website:

"-Call Us

410-682-6744
Please Observe Business hours--What does that mean-it means if its 6PM on the west coast --thats you Cali, please don't call 17 times leaving 6 messages about how we never answer our phone-when we have been closed for a few hours. Nothing starts the next business day off better then 6 angry messages."

and also after reading that last response from them, I got on the defensive side.

I was mislead because of the fact that the AC module tends to break as whole and not just buttons...It's a commonly known E39 flaw. So when I clicked on it, and saw that the deal was $50 cheaper than the competition. I made a run for it...but sadly, ran with the wrong item...and later on, learned i ran with the wrong vendor...

and being in the retail automotive business, I personally would never do such a thing: Attacking the issue and worse insulting the customer's background.
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      12-30-2009, 01:50 PM   #10
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Yeah the seller was 100% in the right on this one.
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      12-30-2009, 01:53 PM   #11
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Ha Ha Ha I just read their response to his bad feedback on ebay. Misleading item? Honestly it couldnt be any more crystal clear that you are only buying buttons.

"Lousy and rude post customer service after sending a misleading item!!! bavarianconcepts ( 218) Dec-29-09 15:23
Reply by ongreenperformance (Dec-29-09 19:22):
Stupidest Customer Ever, Can’t read and comprehend, We hope he does not breed

BMW E39 Climate Control Buttons 540 528 M5 540i X5 AC (#380168101225) "
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      12-30-2009, 02:06 PM   #12
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Just got off the phone with Ebay =)...

Here's how their response went:

"We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. Please send back the item with the return label that we will be emailing you."

"We grant you a full refund of $118 for grounds that the seller is a complete misrepresentation of how an Ebay vendor should be. He may have been been factual and may have listed the return policy in hindsight while you were in error for not reading the whole ad, but because of the lack of professionalism he portrayed we honor you the full refund. We will also take recourse action in penalizing the vendor further as we don't see this fit with our mission statement."

All I can say now is I'm happy, and definitely learned from this experience as a consumer and as a seller. One, be careful of what you buy. Two, never bite the hand that feeds you.

This dispute could have been won by the vendor easily, but since he went way out of line, the customer was right on this one.
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      12-30-2009, 03:12 PM   #13
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Sounds to me like just another case of not accepting responsibility for ones' own actions.
Nobody wants to admit that they were wrong and wants some else to pay for their mistake.
The OP made an error and then pushed it to the point that the seller got so aggravated that they became unprofessional.
The OP should admit his error, pay the restocking fee and shipping fee and learn from his mistake.
And people wonder why the world is so F'd up.
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      12-30-2009, 03:13 PM   #14
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Glad it worked out for you, but the auction was pretty clear as to what you were getting. Had you read the description, yours (and the seller's) aggravation would never have occurred.

It seems the seller finally snapped, after you pushed his (or her) buttons trying to circumvent their policies, when they did nothing wrong up to that point.
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      12-30-2009, 03:55 PM   #15
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Now here's my question to you guys, lets just say you were in my shoes after being dished an insult of that level...would you kept quiet still? Wouldn't have you escalated this to the governing body of Ebay? Even a little mouse cornered in the kitchen by a cat would try to fight back.

I would've gone off quietly and sucked up the fees if this was handled by them professionally. I would know because being on the other side as a vendor, I do this on a day to day basis when I deal with RMAs all day long. In fact, we don't even have restocking fees. We even take in returns when we knowingly see damage done by the customer's negligence. We do this to avoid erupting customers. They chose to not get off the high horse, and I charged back. Cardinal rule amongst retailers, NEVER insult customers. It can be used as grounds for harassment in court. Obviously, I didn't take that route with them as a customer, but I was just not going to let them go that easily either.
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      12-30-2009, 04:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TP 135i View Post
Sounds to me like just another case of not accepting responsibility for ones' own actions.
Nobody wants to admit that they were wrong and wants some else to pay for their mistake.
The OP made an error and then pushed it to the point that the seller got so aggravated that they became unprofessional.
The OP should admit his error, pay the restocking fee and shipping fee and learn from his mistake.
And people wonder why the world is so F'd up.
agreed. he wasted the seller's time and they finally got fed up and blew a gasket. He then wasted ebay's time and resources. Even after all of the replies he comes back and posts as if he were in the right and happy with his decisions. One word comes to mind - clueless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawshank772 View Post
Ha Ha Ha I just read their response to his bad feedback on ebay. Misleading item? Honestly it couldnt be any more crystal clear that you are only buying buttons.

"Lousy and rude post customer service after sending a misleading item!!! bavarianconcepts ( 218) Dec-29-09 15:23
Reply by ongreenperformance (Dec-29-09 19:22):
Stupidest Customer Ever, Canít read and comprehend, We hope he does not breed


BMW E39 Climate Control Buttons 540 528 M5 540i X5 AC (#380168101225) "
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      12-30-2009, 04:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415Banker View Post
I would've gone off quietly and sucked up the fees if this was handled by them professionally.
This is very untrue.

They did handle the auction professionally, and delivered exactly what they said they would. When you asked about returning, they reiterated their return policy, and you pushed back twice before they lost it on you.

Returns for ebay items are not the norm, and they have a 20% restock fee for their troubles. I cannot fathom how you thought you could get them to pay for return shipping or waive the restocking fees because you F'ed up.

It wasn't until you were a whiny **** that they acted unprofessionally.
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      12-30-2009, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415Banker View Post
Just got off the phone with Ebay =)...

Here's how their response went:

"We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. Please send back the item with the return label that we will be emailing you."

"We grant you a full refund of $118 for grounds that the seller is a complete misrepresentation of how an Ebay vendor should be. He may have been been factual and may have listed the return policy in hindsight while you were in error for not reading the whole ad, but because of the lack of professionalism he portrayed we honor you the full refund. We will also take recourse action in penalizing the vendor further as we don't see this fit with our mission statement."

All I can say now is I'm happy, and definitely learned from this experience as a consumer and as a seller. One, be careful of what you buy. Two, never bite the hand that feeds you.

This dispute could have been won by the vendor easily, but since he went way out of line, the customer was right on this one.
Wow you got the fastest e-bay refund in history, did the seller agree to the refund? or are you saying e-bay refunded you the money?
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      12-30-2009, 04:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
This is very untrue.

They did handle the auction professionally, and delivered exactly what they said they would. When you asked about returning, they reiterated their return policy, and you pushed back twice before they lost it on you.
Like you said, they lost it in the end which anyone in the business should NEVER do. I've dealt with more strenuous situations in our arena, and never would I try to personally attack a customer. As I mentioned earlier, the vendor could have easily won this, but I went for the charge after the attack. Because of that slip up, that is why Ebay sided with me on this one. So to say that is very untrue falters with their personal attack.

I've spoken with other vendors today who are forum sponsors. We all agreed. I was initially at fault, but the final outcome was that the cardinal rule was broken. As one of the sponsors said, "how dumb do you have to be to go after a guy and tell him his IQ is low." Unfortunate for this vendor that he didn't know I know how to play with the rules. Because he already insulted my son (in a response he made to my negative feedback to him by saying we hope he does not breed), all the more I will not tolerate anyone talking $h!t about my family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Returns for ebay items are not the norm, and they have a 20% restock fee for their troubles. I cannot fathom how you thought you could get them to pay for return shipping or waive the restocking fees because you F'ed up.

It wasn't until you were a whiny **** that they acted unprofessionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415Banker View Post
I guess I've just been spoiled by the higher level customer service that vendors in our forums commit too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415Banker View Post
I would know because being on the other side as a vendor, I do this on a day to day basis when I deal with RMAs all day long. In fact, we don't even have restocking fees. We even take in returns when we knowingly see damage done by the customer's negligence. We do this to avoid erupting customers.
With the quotes I've mentioned, this is why I know a vendor like them can cover a $5 cost. It's not impossible especially having a restocking fee that high. As a power seller, he has the volume to cover certain incidentals like this. The company I work for has a medium level volume on retail and high level volume on wholesale. Day in and day out, we get returns. We don't charge restocking fees, but we manage to stay in the black all the time. So to say that $5 is trouble for them is a load of crap. My compromise was to pay for the restocking fee, but not for the return shipping cost knowing its feeble for them to begin with. Now because he insulted not only me but my family, Ebay went ahead and given me a full refund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Username135 View Post
Wow you got the fastest e-bay refund in history, did the seller agree to the refund? or are you saying e-bay refunded you the money?
It was Ebay who refunded it. I showed them all the insults this guy posted, and they said it was a no brainer to close the case with me winning the final outcome. The rep even said, you got lucky. Normally, they would've sided with the vendor in these situations. But because he became "unbecoming," he left us no choice.
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      12-30-2009, 05:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415Banker View Post
Like you said, they lost it in the end which anyone in the business should NEVER do. I've dealt with more strenuous situations in our arena, and never would I try to personally attack a customer. As I mentioned earlier, the vendor could have easily won this, but I went for the charge after the attack. Because of that slip up, that is why Ebay sided with me on this one. So to say that is very untrue falters with their personal attack.

I've spoken with other vendors today who are forum sponsors. We all agreed. I was initially at fault, but the final outcome was that the cardinal rule was broken. As one of the sponsors said, "how dumb do you have to be to go after a guy and tell him his IQ is low." Unfortunate for this vendor that he didn't know I know how to play with the rules. Because he already insulted my son (in a response he made to my negative feedback to him by saying we hope he does not breed), all the more I will not tolerate anyone talking $h!t about my family.







With the quotes I've mentioned, this is why I know a vendor like them can cover a $5 cost. It's not impossible especially having a restocking fee that high. As a power seller, he has the volume to cover certain incidentals like this. The company I work for has a medium level volume on retail and high level volume on wholesale. Day in and day out, we get returns. We don't charge restocking fees, but we manage to stay in the black all the time. So to say that $5 is trouble for them is a load of crap. My compromise was to pay for the restocking fee, but not for the return shipping cost knowing its feeble for them to begin with. Now because he insulted not only me but my family, Ebay went ahead and given me a full refund.



It was Ebay who refunded it. I showed them all the insults this guy posted, and they said it was a no brainer to close the case with me winning the final outcome. The rep even said, you got lucky. Normally, they would've sided with the vendor in these situations. But because he became "unbecoming," he left us no choice.
So E-Bay is sending you a return mailing label? The item will be returned to the seller?
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      12-30-2009, 05:16 PM   #21
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There's absolutely no excuse for being unprofessional in a sales/customer service environment, no matter what the customer does or says.

As it is, while 415Banker was at fault for apparently not reading the descriptions thoroughly, there is nothing inherently unreasonable with asking that he not have to pay for shipping. (Does everyone here always pay full retail price for everything they purchase? Does no one here try to negotiate?) The seller could have politely but firmly declined. Instead, he demonstrated a high degree of immaturity.

Thanks for the warning on this vendor. eBay made the right judgment.
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      12-30-2009, 05:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Username135 View Post
So E-Bay is sending you a return mailing label? The item will be returned to the seller?
Yup, waiting on the label from Ebay and I'll be definitely returning it to them in its original packaging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp1187 View Post
There's absolutely no excuse for being unprofessional in a sales/customer service environment, no matter what the customer does or says.

As it is, while 415Banker was at fault for apparently not reading the descriptions thoroughly, there is nothing inherently unreasonable with asking that he not have to pay for shipping. (Does everyone here always pay full retail price for everything they purchase? Does no one here try to negotiate?) The seller could have politely but firmly declined. Instead, he demonstrated a high degree of immaturity.

Thanks for the warning on this vendor. eBay made the right judgment.
Thank you sir!
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