BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-10-2018, 11:49 PM   #1
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2136
Rep
6,411
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Tesla’s ‘Bioweapon Defense Mode’ invaluable to owners in CA wildfires

I admit I wondered WTF when it was announced. Obviously I was not thinking of Natural Disasters.

But it actually works and has a legitimate use based on reports of owners in California

When Elon Musk initially talked about the Model X’s “Bioweapon Defense Mode,” the company’s skeptics dismissed the feature as a simple gimmick. For owners of the company’s electric cars currently affected by the raging wildfires in CA, though, Bioweapon Defense Mode has become a welcome blessing, allowing them and their passengers to breathe clean air despite the worsening air quality outside.

https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-...wildfires/amp/
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 2
obert559.00
Dackelone8115.00

      11-11-2018, 02:43 PM   #2
Questofthetune
Captain
Questofthetune's Avatar
408
Rep
739
Posts

Drives: 14 AW M235i
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: SFL

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2014 BMW 235i  [0.00]
Definitely pretty cool
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 03:38 PM   #3
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
977
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

As far as I can tell this is just the result of using a HEPA cabin air filter like most cars have (or optionally available).
What is so special about Tesla's system? (technically speaking I mean).
Do they use an exeptionally large filter? (I know certain mercedes cars also have used large filters for a long time now; since the 90s or so, sometimes using 2 fairly large pads near the windscreen wiper cowling)
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch

Last edited by GuidoK; 11-11-2018 at 03:48 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 03:42 PM   #4
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2136
Rep
6,411
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
As far as I can tell this is just the result of using a HEPA cabin air filter like most cars have (or optionally available).
What is so special about Tesla's system? (technically speaking I mean)
"Naming the feature as 'Bioweapon Defense Mode' was seen as a marketing move, but after releasing those results(in link below),Tesla argued: "Bioweapon Defense Mode is not a marketing statement. You can literally survive a military grade bio attack by sitting in your car."

Not sure that a standard HEPA filter can make that claim.

https://electrek.co/2018/06/01/elon-...de-air-filter/
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 03:55 PM   #5
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
977
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post

Not sure that a standard HEPA filter can make that claim.

https://electrek.co/2018/06/01/elon-...de-air-filter/
Depends on the HEPA filter, there are lots of classes of hepa filters.
But all nonsense aside, I dont see a particular need to survive a 'military grade bio attack'. I see more use in the filtration power when driving behind a truck or so; on that level it has to perform.

But I do see a particulary large filter in Elon's hand. How expensive is that? Interior filters need to be changed every 6-12 months to stay clean and effective. I mean a normal Hepa/carbon cabin air filter costs about 15 bucks.If this one costs 10 times that I wonder how good of a deal that is.
Once the filter is dirty it looses its effectiveness and can spread dirt. Especially when fungi start to grow in them and spread their spores, so replacing them on that regular interval is pretty important.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 04:34 PM   #6
obert
Colonel
obert's Avatar
United_States
559
Rep
2,738
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seattle Wa

iTrader: (30)

Why does everything have to turn into a pissing match? It was a good article and the vehicle helped keep people safe.
Appreciate 1
m5james282.00

      11-11-2018, 04:41 PM   #7
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
977
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Its not a pissing match, its a discussion whether this is a useful and viable add on to a car.

As I pointed out, these filters have to be changed at intervals so cost may be an issue. Not changing them allows fungi etc to accumulate in there, spreading their spores.
So having it as an add on and not doing its maintenance is not an option.
Changing cabin filters at regular intervals is important.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 04:46 PM   #8
obert
Colonel
obert's Avatar
United_States
559
Rep
2,738
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Seattle Wa

iTrader: (30)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Its not a pissing match, its a discussion whether this is a useful and viable add on to a car.

As I pointed out, these filters have to be changed at intervals so cost may be an issue. Not changing them allows fungi etc to accumulate in there, spreading their spores.
So having it as an add on and not doing its maintenance is not an option.
Changing cabin filters at regular intervals is important.
If the person bought a car like this and the filtration system is beneficial to them and their health I would assume they change it as recommended. Just like people change normal filter on their cars as recommended.

Good for Tesla to keep pushing the envelope.
Appreciate 1
IK6SPEED2135.50

      11-11-2018, 05:27 PM   #9
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2136
Rep
6,411
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Its not a pissing match, its a discussion whether this is a useful and viable add on to a car.

As I pointed out, these filters have to be changed at intervals so cost may be an issue. Not changing them allows fungi etc to accumulate in there, spreading their spores.
So having it as an add on and not doing its maintenance is not an option.
Changing cabin filters at regular intervals is important.
Considering 5 vehicles driving out of Paradise, CA have dead bodies in them, I bet they would have found it useful.

Which is exactly what the link is about...and I even stated I thought like you until I read about this actually working in California right this minute.

I doubt any of those filters have been changed.

It also appears that you are not reading links, just posting.

Musk credited Google co-founder Larry Page for turning him onto the idea and with the Model X in 2015, Tesla introduced a brand new HEPA air filter system.

The automaker claims that it is about 10 times larger than a normal car filter (pictured above) and it is “100 times more effective than premium automotive filters” as it removes “at least 99.97% of fine particulate matter and gaseous pollutants, as well as bacteria, viruses, pollen and mold spores.”


Notice difference in size between the filter in left and right hand, which you would have seen if you looked at link.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is

Last edited by IK6SPEED; 11-11-2018 at 05:35 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 06:32 PM   #10
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
977
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Notice difference in size between the filter in left and right hand, which you would have seen if you looked at link.
Yes I didnt read all the links in the link.
However I did read the 2nd link, where I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post

But I do see a particulary large filter in Elon's hand.
So I have no idea what your point is...


Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Considering 5 vehicles driving out of Paradise, CA have dead bodies in them, I bet they would have found it useful.
And this would have protected them? I understood that those people were in torched cars?
Or did these people die by inhaling small particle matter?

In case of these extreme situations you have to set your venting system to internal recirculation and not draw air in from the outside. Besides particle matter also lots of poisonous gasses are created like CO, NO2 and SO2, and a Hepa filter does nothing against that.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch

Last edited by GuidoK; 11-11-2018 at 06:48 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 07:13 PM   #11
JamesNoBrakes
Major
641
Rep
1,498
Posts

Drives: 428i xdrive GC
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

Many military vehicle NBC systems work on over-pressurization concept, with the filters being an integral part of it.
__________________
Dinan Shockware, Dinan F3x Swaybars, ACS Springs
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 07:16 PM   #12
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2136
Rep
6,411
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Notice difference in size between the filter in left and right hand, which you would have seen if you looked at link.
Yes I didnt read all the links in the link.
However I did read the 2nd link, where I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post

But I do see a particulary large filter in Elon's hand.
So I have no idea what your point is...


Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Considering 5 vehicles driving out of Paradise, CA have dead bodies in them, I bet they would have found it useful.
And this would have protected them? I understood that those people were in torched cars?
Or did these people die by inhaling small particle matter?

In case of these extreme situations you have to set your venting system to internal recirculation and not draw air in from the outside. Besides particle matter also lots of poisonous gasses are created like CO, NO2 and SO2, and a Hepa filter does nothing against that.
Again, you chose to ignore all the first hand accounts out of California.

We get it. You hate Tesla. As his Tesla Roadster smokes your Z4.
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2018, 08:06 PM   #13
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
977
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Too bad that you cant participate in this discussion with in depth arguments anymore and have to resort to personal attacks.

I guess you dont get 'it' at all....
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 0
      Today, 03:04 PM   #14
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
977
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

I did some research.
This is an interesting article about the 'bioweapon defense mode' with in depth opinions from experts (Michael J. Buchmeier, deputy director of the Pacific Southwest Regional Center for Biodefense and Emerging Diseases at the University of California, Irvine and Colonel Randall Larsen, retired U.S. Air Force and now the director of the Institute for Homeland Security), and they conclude that it wont do any good in a bioweapon attack situation. First argument is that you have to know if an attack has happened. At the time that people start to get the symptoms its too late, and further more, the Hepa standard that it is claimed to meet, is effective against bacteria and pollen but not against a lot of viruses that can be used in bioweapon scenario's.
So as an anallergic device and against smelly odors the filter is useful but thats where its use and effectiveness apparently ends

https://gizmodo.com/bioweapon-expert...owe-1733909293

Also the effectiveness Musk claims (99.97% of 0.3 micrometer particles from the air) is the HEPA ASTM D2986 spec. Bosch has had filters in that spec for ages for a number of cars like I already wrote about:
https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/au...-cabin-filters
These filters have the same filter capability spec as Musk claims, but are available for certain mercedes cars, Subaru's Lexus, or even your honda Civic or toyota Yaris. So nothing special, just ordinairy cars where you can have the same filtration spec against pollen, odors and other allergenic particles by means of a drop in replacement.
But without Musk's marketing flair (or cost); maybe thats why it attracts a certain kind of buyer.

Then there is of course the claim that its 100 times better. The filtration degree is already debunked above, now about the filter capacity.
This article goes into depth about comparing the Tesla filter against a test on an ordinairy Mazda interior filter by a clean air afficionada:
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/tesla-mazda/

And the results are quite astonishing:


Yes the tesla's filter is better. But is it 100 times better as claimed? Absolutely not.
What the tesla filter does in 1 minute, a stock filter does in about 2 minutes according to the measurements. Thats what it comes down to.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/tesla-mazda/
Also ordinairy interior filters are also available in versions with a carbon interweve mainly to filter out odors (based on sulphur based chemical gasses or ammonia based chemical gasses). This is actually standard on most interior filters, just like the tesla filter has. Most people who do their own maintenance on cars know this because it usually says so right on the filter (I guess thats the benefit of 'hands on experience ).

So Musk creates a hype with false information and claims. I'm sure its a very good interior filter and in some aspects better than normal interior cabin filters but apparantly it needs lies to sell it. You need a salesman like Musk to do that, and you'll attract a large crowd of a certain kind of people that are jumping to spend. He is truely a marketing genious that knows how to attract people that do have the money but dont have the brains to decipher what he says.


As for the costs its not quite clear. Those Bosch ASTM D2986 spec. Hepa filters go for about 19 bucks on amazon.
The things I can find on the cost of the Tesla filter range from 200 bucks to a magnitude of that:
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch

Last edited by GuidoK; Today at 03:21 PM.
Appreciate 1
Viffermike1550.50

      Today, 03:14 PM   #15
SFCM3
Captain
United_States
492
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: 2011.75 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Alotta good that will do on Model 3 where the window seals are all popped out from poor fitment....
__________________
I am never able to post pictures on forums, all my pics are on IG @baye30 https://www.instagram.com/baye30/
Appreciate 0
      Today, 10:59 PM   #16
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2136
Rep
6,411
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Yes I didnt read all the links in the link.
However I did read the 2nd link, where I said


So I have no idea what your point is...



And this would have protected them? I understood that those people were in torched cars?
Or did these people die by inhaling small particle matter?

In case of these extreme situations you have to set your venting system to internal recirculation and not draw air in from the outside. Besides particle matter also lots of poisonous gasses are created like CO, NO2 and SO2, and a Hepa filter does nothing against that.
Too bad you did not watch ABC World News on Monday Evening 11.12.2018 which had the interview with the woman attempting to drive out when the smoke got so bad in her car, she bailed out, with her clothing catching on fire as she fled without the vehicles protection.
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
      Today, 11:16 PM   #17
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
977
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

There's no real proof that tesla's filter could have prevented that (or what the state of her current car was for that matter). I think thats the point you're trying to make but your post is really vague on that (except that something is 'too bad' for me'). Read my previous post about the effectiveness issue. The data speaks for itself.
Switching the climate control to internal recirculation is the best action you can take in that scenario. Thats usually also in the manual. That recycles the internal air, I think even through the cabin air filter.
Hell, if a blaze is that bad you could even think about if its wise to extract air from outside, containing smoldering dust and debris, getting sucked into a filter like material with a forced stream of air....
Usually thats a good way to start a fire. Thats how I light my bbq.

What that women did do right imho is run towards the firefighters. I assume we talk about the same woman; the nurse, is that correct? BTW she said in that interview: "the car is on fire, its filling up with smoke". So a little bit different than how you put it.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch

Last edited by GuidoK; Today at 11:44 PM.
Appreciate 0
      Today, 11:20 PM   #18
IK6SPEED
Major General
IK6SPEED's Avatar
United_States
2136
Rep
6,411
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 / AH3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
There's no real proof that tesla's filter could have prevented that.
Unless you read the numerous first hand accounts online posted in the last week.

Unfortunately you are too busy searching HEPA Filters to search for real life experiences.
__________________
Stable: F80 / AH3
Past: F80 ZCP / F22 M235i / E89 35is
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:47 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST