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      03-12-2018, 09:57 AM   #1
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First One in the Books

Hello All!

This past weekend I finally went out in my first event with the 1M. I had already done a couple events in other vehicles, and a single autocross event in the 1M - so had some familiarity with the basics. As you'll see, still a lot to learn, but happy with my progress given the first real event! I already knew I would be hooked, and this certainly helped to confirm that

I will say, given the strong market and these crazy auctions recently, I have been second guessing hanging onto the 1M. Financially, it still probably makes the most sense for me to sell, but for now - I'll continue to enjoy what it was made to do.

A few thoughts I had:

-The PFC08's were LOUD. Admittedly I had a hard time overcoming this mentally as I felt I was being annoying and inherently doing something wrong with long extended squeeking!

-A lot of factors probably went into this, but the Tire/Brake combo didn't give me any confidence. It seemed to be wildly inconsistent and felt as if I was engaging ABS, even if I wasn't. Some things we thought could be the issue: Older Tires - probably time to replace. Cold day, so they were rock hard. Brakes out performing the tires. Maybe rotors. And certainly, user error. I was able to apply the brakes better later in the sessions, which helped, but didnt solve the issues.

-Need to work on shifting. Even though I know how to heel/toe, the combination of lack of confidence in brakes, and my inconsistencies in brake pressure when I do heel/toe made me avoid this. I felt I was trying to do too much here and probably should have left it in 3rd for a majority of the small track

-General Novice mistakes; Better vision, smoother steering inputs, too much body/head movement when turning, smoother Gas/Brake application, etc. Really awesome to have the GoPro so I can visualize these errors.

Overall I had a blast and learned a lot. Already searching for time and money for the next one

Special Thanks to PCA-Potomac Region for an awesome event.

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      03-12-2018, 01:07 PM   #2
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What kind of tires are you running? With PFC08s you are likely overbraked if you are on street tires. Throw on some AD08Rs/RE71/RS4/NT01 and it will completely change your confidence in the brakes -- except for the squealing!
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      03-12-2018, 04:54 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ayao View Post
What kind of tires are you running? With PFC08s you are likely overbraked if you are on street tires. Throw on some AD08Rs/RE71/RS4/NT01 and it will completely change your confidence in the brakes -- except for the squealing!
Ya, street tires (pilot super sports). They’re on the way out anyways, and from what I hear don’t do well after sitting in the cold for some time. Hopefully that’s all it is and won’t require more investigation.
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      03-12-2018, 08:38 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by griz31 View Post
Ya, street tires (pilot super sports). They’re on the way out anyways, and from what I hear don’t do well after sitting in the cold for some time. Hopefully that’s all it is and won’t require more investigation.
Agree with @ayao

Track pads will allow the vehicle to overbrake the chassis with stock tires.


The squeal from the track pads you heard was rather normal. The lighter the braking application.. the more they squeal.. so being gentle with the pedal because of the noise... usually results in.. more noise!

a FIRM application of the brake pedal can often, but not always eliminate the squeal. Learn to love the squeal and consider it proof that your track pads are working..

With regards to the general feeling that the car is doing " weird things".

if you were driving in regular or even MDM mode... keep in mind two things

1- if you brake to enter a corner and are going too fast.. the computers and nannies WILL brake a wheel or two (typically the rear wheels) to keep the car in line.

2- the electronic diff can cause some

3- part of the traction control system that CANNOT be defeated on a 1M without coding is CORNER BRAKE CONTROL. Under REALLY hard braking in a straight line (very easy to do with track pads) the car will brake and release the rear wheels while you are slowing down. This is designed to prevent the brakes from locking up.. but can cause the rear end to feel like it's wiggling. This sensation is exacerbated by the following

- Different brake pads on front vs rear - especially when more aggressive pads are on the front and stock pads on the rear
- track pads employed with street tires causing the braking force to be higher than the OEM pad forces and causing the rear tires to lock up under weight transfer forward

The corner brake control can only be CODED out. Otherwise.. maintaining the same type of pads front and rear is the best way to reduce this effect.

.. if running street pads.. use street tires. and if you are running track pads.. use track (or autocross specific ) tires that have more grip.
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      03-13-2018, 04:19 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
.. if running street pads.. use street tires. and if you are running track pads.. use track (or autocross specific ) tires that have more grip.
Appreciate the in depth response. A lot of what you are saying makes sense as to what I was feeling. I ran the same pads front and back and left all nannies on. I’m sure a lot of it had to do with lack of seat time, and would have been able to control them better with more experience.

Tires were next on the list anyways, so hopefully that will even things out.
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      03-13-2018, 11:20 AM   #6
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The stability control system interferes a ton on-track, not much fun to be had, and it'll eat through an entire set of pads (or rotors with race pads) in one weekend (I drove home with metal-on-metal braking in the rear, it was miserable). It also can make the car feel uncomfortable, weird, or just downright awful in certain situations when left on. I don't really know the extent of MDM, but I'm sure it's similar to DTC in the non-M 1'ers, in that it allows total traction slippage, but will cut power if the slip angle becomes too great. I run with all systems off, but I don't have the power and go-kart-like snappy nature that the 1M seems to be known for...

I recently coded all of the braking nannies out of my car (engine power reduction from overheating brakes, maximum brake support, brake pressure mapping for sport brakes, etc.) and the brakes feel a good bit better. I'm running giant (you saw them) F30 335i brakes, and riding on tiny little 225-section tires, so over-braking is a well-known phenomenon to me, but the fade doesn't exist, even with OEM pads...

Pilot Sports aren't really good track tires (I've done some looking), they have a tendency to get very greasy when hot (unpredictablility), and don't like cold weather. Bridgestone Potenza RE71Rs are highly reputable, but are more geared towards short, autocross runs. The Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 (say that ten times really, really fast) has some awesome reviews on Tire Rack, and seem to be a good track/performance tire for newbies (like ourselves). I had an instructor who recommended against R-comps until you really know your car, as they aren't particularly forgiving or communicative tires at-the-limit, and are really sensitive to temperatures (they can crack in the cold).

I hate heel-toeing, it also doesn't help that my car has fairly long pedal travel, which means I really can't heel-toe at the threshold. Also, it isn't really necessary, our cars have synchro's which takes care of synching-up transmission speeds, and then with a smooth enough release of the clutch, you won't upset the car.

Glad you had an awesome time, I've got my first day next month, and a lot of new things on the car to enjoy (camber plates, better alignment, oil cooler, 135i cluster, and maybe a race seat). I still can't believe I got a picture of my car next to a 1M
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      03-14-2018, 03:48 AM   #7
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Driving our 1Ms with even just mdm traction control on will overheat the brakes if you are pushing hard on track and then when u go to lean on tgem they do not feel like they used to. If you have proper tyres i would reccomend turning everything off in order to regain consistent braking feel. On the road mdm is a great mode for giving you confidence that you wont get into any major trouble but on track it creates too much heat and wear.
It is great that you are using your car and enjoying it.
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      03-14-2018, 06:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
Glad you had an awesome time, I've got my first day next month, and a lot of new things on the car to enjoy (camber plates, better alignment, oil cooler, 135i cluster, and maybe a race seat). I still can't believe I got a picture of my car next to a 1M
I think a combo of the full nannies and tires led to some weird behavior, but it was awesome nonetheless. Let me know your next event, always more fun to go with friends!

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Originally Posted by godzilla-1 View Post
It is great that you are using your car and enjoying it.
Agreed
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      03-14-2018, 01:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Agree with @ayao

Track pads will allow the vehicle to overbrake the chassis with stock tires.


The squeal from the track pads you heard was rather normal. The lighter the braking application.. the more they squeal.. so being gentle with the pedal because of the noise... usually results in.. more noise!

a FIRM application of the brake pedal can often, but not always eliminate the squeal. Learn to love the squeal and consider it proof that your track pads are working..

With regards to the general feeling that the car is doing " weird things".

if you were driving in regular or even MDM mode... keep in mind two things

1- if you brake to enter a corner and are going too fast.. the computers and nannies WILL brake a wheel or two (typically the rear wheels) to keep the car in line.

2- the electronic diff can cause some

3- part of the traction control system that CANNOT be defeated on a 1M without coding is CORNER BRAKE CONTROL. Under REALLY hard braking in a straight line (very easy to do with track pads) the car will brake and release the rear wheels while you are slowing down. This is designed to prevent the brakes from locking up.. but can cause the rear end to feel like it's wiggling. This sensation is exacerbated by the following

- Different brake pads on front vs rear - especially when more aggressive pads are on the front and stock pads on the rear
- track pads employed with street tires causing the braking force to be higher than the OEM pad forces and causing the rear tires to lock up under weight transfer forward

The corner brake control can only be CODED out. Otherwise.. maintaining the same type of pads front and rear is the best way to reduce this effect.

.. if running street pads.. use street tires. and if you are running track pads.. use track (or autocross specific ) tires that have more grip.
My car exhibits this exact behavior - hard straight line braking (DS1.11 on a BBK up front and DS2500 on stock calipers in the rear, square NT01s all around, euro MDM) leads to an -extremely- disconcerting wiggling in the rear -- I hate it. I run this setup to simplify track day prep and have tried to change both coilover and alignment settings to dial this out - no success.

I may need to go back to putting more aggressive compound in the rear for HPDEs.
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      03-14-2018, 06:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayao View Post
My car exhibits this exact behavior - hard straight line braking (DS1.11 on a BBK up front and DS2500 on stock calipers in the rear, square NT01s all around, euro MDM) leads to an -extremely- disconcerting wiggling in the rear -- I hate it. I run this setup to simplify track day prep and have tried to change both coilover and alignment settings to dial this out - no success.

I may need to go back to putting more aggressive compound in the rear for HPDEs.
My car does the same, so I guess maybe it's a quirk of the 1. Could be something to do with the short wheelbase and forward-biased weight distribution. There's also a nanny that will force the brakes to the threshold, which makes the car feel unstable and unpredictable. See this: http://www.onelapx1.com/blog/how-to-...w-actually-fun
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      03-14-2018, 06:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griz31 View Post
I think a combo of the full nannies and tires led to some weird behavior, but it was awesome nonetheless. Let me know your next event, always more fun to go with friends!
It's April 21-22 at Summit Point Main with NASA Mid-Atlantic. I also am looking into driving at HyperFest at VIR May 18-20, and they have everything going on! Drifting, barbie jeep races, rallying, HPDE, HyperDrives, racing, etc. Looks like a great time!
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      03-14-2018, 06:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
My car does the same, so I guess maybe it's a quirk of the 1. Could be something to do with the short wheelbase and forward-biased weight distribution. There's also a nanny that will force the brakes to the threshold, which makes the car feel unstable and unpredictable. See this: http://www.onelapx1.com/blog/how-to-...w-actually-fun
thanks! Sheesh.. I had no idea how many of these there are..

I have definitely experienced Engine Power Reduction to Prevent Brake Disc Overheating (FLR).

here is a thread on CBC guys.. or at least how owners began to discover it...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...&highlight=CBC

Mike Benvo was one of the people that first began coding out some of these.. but was charging $500 to do so..... a tremendous amount for a few features to be turned off.. Now that coding is much more accessible.. I might need to schedule another coding session!

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 03-14-2018 at 06:44 PM..
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      03-15-2018, 08:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
thanks! Sheesh.. I had no idea how many of these there are..

I have definitely experienced Engine Power Reduction to Prevent Brake Disc Overheating (FLR).

here is a thread on CBC guys.. or at least how owners began to discover it...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...&highlight=CBC

Mike Benvo was one of the people that first began coding out some of these.. but was charging $500 to do so..... a tremendous amount for a few features to be turned off.. Now that coding is much more accessible.. I might need to schedule another coding session!
You could probably do it yourself (and gain considerable access to your car's systems ). The learning curve is steep to begin with (mostly terminology), but once you get how it works, it's really quite easy! You can pick up a K+DCAN cable on Amazon for around $30, and there are lots of ways to get the BMW Standard Tools suite for free, which is nice. $500 is ridiculous, but I guess it could cover him for liabilities (computers control everything, and if one breaks, they all want to break). A cool thing I did was change the brake assist mapping to reflect my brake mods (F30 335i calipers up front), and it made the pedal feel much better, IMO.

I'm waiting for my car to get back from the collision shop (got hit twice in <2 weeks, other guys' faults), but then I'm going to see what else I can tinker with...

EDIT: Just looked at that thread you linked; really cool stuff, but I don't think I've ever experienced those effects, but I'll dive into the DSC module again and see...
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      03-15-2018, 01:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_flies View Post
You could probably do it yourself (and gain considerable access to your car's systems ). The learning curve is steep to begin with (mostly terminology), but once you get how it works, it's really quite easy! You can pick up a K+DCAN cable on Amazon for around $30, and there are lots of ways to get the BMW Standard Tools suite for free, which is nice. $500 is ridiculous, but I guess it could cover him for liabilities (computers control everything, and if one breaks, they all want to break). A cool thing I did was change the brake assist mapping to reflect my brake mods (F30 335i calipers up front), and it made the pedal feel much better, IMO.

I'm waiting for my car to get back from the collision shop (got hit twice in <2 weeks, other guys' faults), but then I'm going to see what else I can tinker with...

EDIT: Just looked at that thread you linked; really cool stuff, but I don't think I've ever experienced those effects, but I'll dive into the DSC module again and see...
Damnit.. I need to learn the digital screwdriver.. you are correct. I moved into a new home about 18 months ago and been too busy with home projects to do a lot of my own auto work but as the house gets to being " done" more I need to get in the garage and spend some time learning....

Especially since it doesn't seem that I will be trading my 1M for an M2 anytime soon... I just have NOT been impressed with the ever increasing nannies... With all the nannies we have.. the M2 ADDS... auto rev match nannies... an EPS system that still needs work, much more intrusive tire pressure system nannies.. collision avoidance nannies... more boost nannies. etc etc etc..
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      03-15-2018, 06:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Damnit.. I need to learn the digital screwdriver.. you are correct. I moved into a new home about 18 months ago and been too busy with home projects to do a lot of my own auto work but as the house gets to being " done" more I need to get in the garage and spend some time learning....

Especially since it doesn't seem that I will be trading my 1M for an M2 anytime soon... I just have NOT been impressed with the ever increasing nannies... With all the nannies we have.. the M2 ADDS... auto rev match nannies... an EPS system that still needs work, much more intrusive tire pressure system nannies.. collision avoidance nannies... more boost nannies. etc etc etc..
The better I get as a driver, the more these nannies intrude on progress, last time I noticed the braking instability, next time I'll find something else...
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      03-15-2018, 08:06 PM   #16
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I ran PFC-08's with RE71R's last year and they worked really well. They are loud as hell on the way to and from the track, but I did not get any squeeling on track after the first lap. Then again, I brake as late as possible.

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