I say BRING IT BMW.

[BForbes]

As I read the "Ugly Betty" thread two things pop into my head. I've stayed clear of the diesel talk threads because I really didnt care. I just couldnt see it helping BMW's image. After reading the ''ugly betty'' review I changed my mind. :biggrin: Forgive me if they have been discussed before as I have found no luck.

Ugly Betty: http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...cle2744771.ece

First Issue: Would it be possible for them to bring the 123d over to the U.S. without any major problems? I mean it seems like a no-brainer but there has to be something stopping them right? I know that Honda is bringing a diesel accord next year.

Second Issue: The diesel seems to yield a whopping 55mpg!!! Would it be possible for them to integrate that motor into a Mini Cooper? I mean could u imagine it? The current base Mini is said to get up to 40mpg.


Let us discuss!! That 123d would be amazing if the mpg could translate the same results in the U.S. And whats great about it is it isnt SLOW. VW has their diesels but boy are they slugs. 11seconds to 60? No thanks.

[spudw]

The lineup will change/evolve over the next few years. I'm sure BMW is being extra careful landing this one on US soil. So the 135i/128i is a careful first step to allow the 1er to establish cred as a premium model.

Once everybody realizes how good the car is, I'm sure diesels (and maybe even hatchbacks, and Tiis or M1s, etc.) will follow.

I'll also reiterate my belief that the 128i will be around for 2008 and 2009, then to be replaced by a 130i coupe.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by spudwest

The lineup will change/evolve over the next few years. I'm sure BMW is being extra careful landing this one on US soil. So the 135i/128i is a careful first step to allow the 1er to establish cred as a premium model.

Once everybody realizes how good the car is, I'm sure diesels (and maybe even hatchbacks, and Tiis or M1s, etc.) will follow.

I'll also reiterate my belief that the 128i will be around for 2008 and 2009, then to be replaced by a 130i coupe.

I dont know spud. I'm sure they will replace the 128i engine but I doubt with the exact same motor from the 330i/Z4/X3. I dont think they would put such an old motor into a new car.

[darknightohio]

First off its not really 55mpg, its more like 34.18mpg converted.

Second diesel is quite expensive here, over $3.00 a gallon.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by darknightohio

First off its not really 55mpg, its more like 34.18mpg converted.

Second diesel is quite expensive here, over $3.00 a gallon.

These guys seem to differ. They says its 45mpg if its converted to U.S. which is still amazing since they were dogging the hell out the car.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11...l-cant-get-it/

[darknightohio]

I made a mistake it is 45mpg, oops used the wrong conversion.

[spudw]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

I dont know spud. I'm sure they will replace the 128i engine but I doubt with the exact same motor from the 330i/Z4/X3. I dont think they would put such an old motor into a new car.

You're probably right, but it'll be 130i-ish. You know, around 260bhp. I'm sure it'll have a lot of efficient dynamics stuff in it...

[spudw]

Originally Posted by darknightohio

First off its not really 55mpg, its more like 34.18mpg converted.

Second diesel is quite expensive here, over $3.00 a gallon.

Even at $3.00+/gallon, wouldn't the increased efficiency mean cost savings overall. 45mpg is impressive enough...

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by spudwest

You're probably right, but it'll be 130i-ish. You know, around 260bhp. I'm sure it'll have a lot of efficient dynamics stuff in it...

Yup 260ish sounds like the magic number. 45mpg IS impressive enough for me too.

[hellrotm]

Americans perception of diesels engines are about to change.

The heavy, smelly, smoke-generating diesels of old are long gone.

The new diesels are light, don't smell, no smoke, get great fuel mileage and best of all they create massive amounts of torque.

Its the future.

[Khobin~]

Originally Posted by slickone

The new diesels are light, don't smell, no smoke, get great gas mileage and best of all they create massive amounts of torque.

Its the future.

How does a diesel get "gas mileage"?:biggrin:

Originally Posted by darknightohio

Second diesel is quite expensive here, over $3.00 a gallon.

...Isn't gas over $3.00/gallon too??... I was just in NY(Buffalo area) and it was $3.22-3.25/gallon for Regular(87 Octane) :iono:

[mlevere1988]

Have they solved the issue with diesels starting in really cold weather without needing to be plugged into a heating core?

[sectos]

diesel is satan's fuel :biggrin:

[Nixon]

The question of how to translate the British MPG numbers into numbers that we can compare to numbers that we are used to is a difficult one.

Converting from Imperial gallons to US gallons is just the start. The British and the EPA tests aren't conducted the same way, so the Brits don't even measure the same thing as the EPA. And the EPA doesn't even measure the same thing for 2008 models as the EPA used to measure for 2007 and older models.

Here's my best crack at making sense of the British numbers, and converting them into something that we are used to:

Step 1: Straight conversion of all 3 British measures in imperial gallons to US gallons:
http://www.convertworld.com/en/fuel_...er+gallon.html

123d
Urban: 43.5 miles per Imp. gallon = 36.2 miles per US gallon
Extra-Urban: 64.2 miles per Imp. gallon = 53.5 miles per US gallon
Combined: 54.3 miles per Imp. gallon = 45.2 miles per US gallon

So if you just run the British test in US gallons instead of Imperial gallons, you would get 36/45/53 mpg.

Step 2: But how does the British tests compare to the EPA tests? I compared the 335i and 550i numbers between the British tests and the 2008 EPA US tests. (I've already converted all British numbers to US gallons):


335i (manual sedan)
Urban: 17.8 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA city of 17 mpg
Extra-Urban: 35.1 mpg(US) = no similar EPA measure
Combined: 25.6 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA highway of 26 mpg

550i (manual sedan)
Urban: 14.2 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA city of 15 mpg
Extra-Urban: 31.0 mpg(US) = no similar EPA measure
Combined: 21.6 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA highway of 22 mpg

So in terms of the NEW EPA standard starting with 2008 models, a good estimate based upon how the 335i and 550i compare, the 123d will get about 36 mpg city/45 mpg highway. (That's using the new EPA 2008 test where all the hybrids are getting downgraded to get mid-40's MPG's.) So about in line with what the hybrid's are getting, but with a bias towards highway efficiency, while the hybrids show better city efficiency. Oh, and you get the kind of performance and acceleration that hybrid owners can only dream of.


Step 3: So how does the new 2008 EPA standard compare to the old system we've been using all these years? Luckily www.fueleconomy.gov provides a calculator for estimating the change between old and new EPA standards. The new 2008 EPA estimate of 36 city/45 highway converts back to 43 city/50 highway under the old EPA tests.

So to sum up, if you are trying to figure out how good the gas mileage of the 123d will measure up next to the EPA numbers you are used to seeing, I think the best estimate to use would be 43 mpg city and 50 mpg highway.

43 city/50 highway would mean for me cutting my current fuel bill roughly in half.

For me, it would have the same affect as if I pulled up to the gas station, and they had a special pump marked for "Nixon Only" and it charged $1.50/gal while everyone else payed $3.00/gal.

I want one.

[Khobin~]

Nixon: you're method makes sense...damn now I'm starting to want a diesel too...

...but then I'd have to worry about ALWAYS plugging it in in winter, vs waiting till it get below -20 Celcius...and then there's the distinct lack of that sweet song that gas produces...and the fact that deisels tend to be more $$ then gas to buy initally...

Oh well, BMW's already made the choice for me ...sticking with the 128 :biggrin:

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by darknightohio

diesel is quite expensive here, over $3.00 a gallon.

We've seen pretty wide swings in diesel prices where I live. It has been less than regular, and it has been more than regular. But key for folks like most of us that are used to driving premium level cars with premium level performance, while running premium gas, the comparison should be how does the price of diesel compare to the price of Premium gas.

I haven't seen average diesel prices go above the price of Premium here, so it is still cheaper per/gallon than the price of Premium that most of us on this board are used to paying.

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by Khobin~

Nixon: you're method makes sense...damn now I'm starting to want a diesel too...

...but then I'd have to worry about ALWAYS plugging it in in winter, vs waiting till it get below -20 Celcius...and then there's the distinct lack of that sweet song that gas produces...and the fact that deisels tend to be more $$ then gas to buy initally...

Oh well, BMW's already made the choice for me ...sticking with the 128 :biggrin:

If you have to face cold weather in the mornings, you might find your mornings much more pleasant if you buy a diesel instead of a 128i/or 135i. I haven't been able to confirm that this is in the 123d yet, but take a look at what can be done with BMW's that have the Webasto Thermo Top C fuel-burning heaters installed as a standard feature:


Subject: Re: Aux Heater E39 530 diesel
Please find a copy of an email I received from Rod Gascoyne the Sales Services Manager for Webasto GB

Dear Sir

Thank you for your valued enquiry regarding the above.

As you are aware, the BMW 5 Series Diesel is fitted with the Webasto Thermo Top C fuel-burning heater as standard, which is used as a supplementary heater. In this application, the Webasto heater only operates when the engine is running and the outside temperature is below 5°C. In conjunction with BMW GB, we have developed a simple upgrade, which includes the addition of a simple electrical interface harness, which will switch the heater on independently.

The parked car heater is started by a remote control device and warms the coolant independently from the vehicle's engine. The vehicle's blower system takes the warm air into the cabin and, at the same time, pre-heats the engine.
Once this upgrade has been installed, it will provide pre-heating for your vehicle prior to commencing your journey.

Some of the benefits associated with such a system are as follows:

· Warmth and comfort of a pre-heated interior - a centrally heated interior.
· Screen defrost and demist - increase safety with a safer clearer vision through the windscreen at the start of your journey.
· Pre-heated engine - no more cold starts/easier starting.
· A pre-warmed engine - a better engine response from cold.
· Reduced engine wear
· Reduced engine emissions - lower emissions from a preheated engine.
· "Just drive off straight away and enjoy your journey."

The standard installation includes full system integration with the parking heater controlled by a Telestart Remote Control. This allows switching on and off of the system by a remote control handset with a range of 600 metres.

In the UK, this accessory is exclusively offered by official BMW Dealerships under the following BMW Part Number: 95.06.0.000.008 or 95.06.0.000.009 (dependent upon model year), therefore you should contact your local BMW Dealer, quoting either of these part numbers in order to obtain the full technical and product support expected within the BMW programme.

So, it seems as though all BMW 530D's have one, but it's a BMW part only to get it going remotely. Hmmm, may look into that.

Cheers,

Gwaredd.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...72&h=&t=219171


I would love to be able to click my remote from inside the house before I leave, and without ever starting the engine, being able to get into a nice warm car!

Oh - and you would never ever have to plug it in with this option either, no matter where you are.

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

First Issue: Would it be possible for them to bring the 123d over to the U.S. without any major problems? I mean it seems like a no-brainer but there has to be something stopping them right? I know that Honda is bringing a diesel accord next year.

I've heard that all of BMW's diesel models will meet even the strict California emissions standards, but BMW hasn't published any testing results for US emissions tests. So it's hard to know for sure. Some people think it is 100% marketing decisions that has kept BMW diesels out of the US until now. What seems like a no-brainer to us might not be a no-brainer to BMW executives. The BMW marketing folks might not think comparisons between a 123d and Prius Hybrids is good for BMW's image.

[AwesomeBMW]

I say BRING THE 123d:headbang::headbang:

[EINSER M]

how about the 135d? wouldnt that be awesome too???? either engine would be a great car to add to the line up. if bmw does bring the 335d here, i think the 123d or 135d will follow...

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Nixon

The question of how to translate the British MPG numbers into numbers that we can compare to numbers that we are used to is a difficult one.

Converting from Imperial gallons to US gallons is just the start. The British and the EPA tests aren't conducted the same way, so the Brits don't even measure the same thing as the EPA. And the EPA doesn't even measure the same thing for 2008 models as the EPA used to measure for 2007 and older models.

Here's my best crack at making sense of the British numbers, and converting them into something that we are used to:

Step 1: Straight conversion of all 3 British measures in imperial gallons to US gallons:
http://www.convertworld.com/en/fuel_...er+gallon.html

123d
Urban: 43.5 miles per Imp. gallon = 36.2 miles per US gallon
Extra-Urban: 64.2 miles per Imp. gallon = 53.5 miles per US gallon
Combined: 54.3 miles per Imp. gallon = 45.2 miles per US gallon

So if you just run the British test in US gallons instead of Imperial gallons, you would get 36/45/53 mpg.

Step 2: But how does the British tests compare to the EPA tests? I compared the 335i and 550i numbers between the British tests and the 2008 EPA US tests. (I've already converted all British numbers to US gallons):


335i (manual sedan)
Urban: 17.8 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA city of 17 mpg
Extra-Urban: 35.1 mpg(US) = no similar EPA measure
Combined: 25.6 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA highway of 26 mpg

550i (manual sedan)
Urban: 14.2 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA city of 15 mpg
Extra-Urban: 31.0 mpg(US) = no similar EPA measure
Combined: 21.6 mpg(US) = to the 2008 EPA highway of 22 mpg

So in terms of the NEW EPA standard starting with 2008 models, a good estimate based upon how the 335i and 550i compare, the 123d will get about 36 mpg city/45 mpg highway. (That's using the new EPA 2008 test where all the hybrids are getting downgraded to get mid-40's MPG's.) So about in line with what the hybrid's are getting, but with a bias towards highway efficiency, while the hybrids show better city efficiency. Oh, and you get the kind of performance and acceleration that hybrid owners can only dream of.


Step 3: So how does the new 2008 EPA standard compare to the old system we've been using all these years? Luckily www.fueleconomy.gov provides a calculator for estimating the change between old and new EPA standards. The new 2008 EPA estimate of 36 city/45 highway converts back to 43 city/50 highway under the old EPA tests.

So to sum up, if you are trying to figure out how good the gas mileage of the 123d will measure up next to the EPA numbers you are used to seeing, I think the best estimate to use would be 43 mpg city and 50 mpg highway.

43 city/50 highway would mean for me cutting my current fuel bill roughly in half.

For me, it would have the same affect as if I pulled up to the gas station, and they had a special pump marked for "Nixon Only" and it charged $1.50/gal while everyone else payed $3.00/gal.

I want one.

Nixon, you are officially the man. I think we need to create the Bring the Diesel badges for the site!!! I want one too. :biggrin:

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by Khobin~

...and the fact that deisels tend to be more $$ then gas to buy initally...

Oh no! Not the price estimate threads all over again for the 123d!!!!


We all know how hard it is to translate European prices to US prices, but I did some math on the difference in prices between the 135i and the 123d in Germany and in the UK.

Germany:
123d -- 27.310 euro
135i -- 32.731 euro

UK:
123d SE -- 24,855 pounds
135i M-sport -- 29,745 pounds

When you calculate the difference between the price of the 123d and the 135i in both countries, the 123d comes out to be just over 83% of the price of a 135i. When you multiply the US MSRP price of the 135i ($34,900) by 83%, you get around $29,000 dollars. So about a $500 dollar premium over the 128i MSRP price of $28,600. I personally would pay a $500 dollar premium for the diesel over the gas engine.

$29,000 might be high compared to $22,600 for a Honda Civic Hybrid (40 city/ 45 highway), or $23,220 for a Toyota Prius Touring (48 city/45 highway), or $23,000 for a 2009 VW Jetta TDI (approx 45 mpg projected). But you would get SO much more for your money! Buy it though ED, and the price gap shrinks even more.

BTW-Over 1 million units have been sold in the Civic Hybrid/Prius/VW TDI market sector now. Cashing in on just 5% of that market sector would mean moving 50,000 units for BMW.