BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      07-03-2007, 03:32 PM   #1
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does the 1 coupe have the z4 or 3 series steering?

I was wondering if it would feel more like the 3 series or the z4. The z4 feels a bit artificial to me.
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      07-03-2007, 03:35 PM   #2
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It has its own unique electric power steering system which is similar to the one found in the Z4.
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      07-03-2007, 03:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocHoliday View Post
I was wondering if it would feel more like the 3 series or the z4. The z4 feels a bit artificial to me.
You say tomehto, I say tomahto.
I love the Z4 steering and hope the 1er has the same.:headbang:
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      07-03-2007, 04:26 PM   #4
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Yup, electric steering ala Z4 and MINI Cooper & Cooper S. Die hard BMW enthusiasts will not be happy.
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      07-03-2007, 04:37 PM   #5
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Huh? Is that for the 'Active Steer' equipped or is the regular rack electric assist also? The Mazda RX-8 uses an electrically powered hydraulic rack with decent feel. The old Acura NSX used an electric assist rack (and felt like it had had a shot of novacaine - besides having a bit of a quirky turn-in feel). I claim that GM's magnasteer has all the effort and none of the feel of a manual rack.

Steering feel is one of the things that endears a car to me, if there is too little feedback or too artificial a feel I won't consider it. The test drive will be important.
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      07-03-2007, 04:47 PM   #6
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Most of the reviews of the new 1er 3-Door, which uses a newly revised EPS system, have been quite positive. According to them, the old hydraulic setup was too heavy at low speed and that this more manageable while still providing good feedback. Im quite fond of the EPS in the Z4 but would like it with more feel which is what the 1 Coupe should be providing.
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      07-03-2007, 04:50 PM   #7
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A test drive is a must - but I've yet to drive an electric only assisted rack that provides even barely decent steering feel.
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      07-03-2007, 04:57 PM   #8
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Houston - we have a problem. Here's a link to an article regarding BMW's EPSand the need to provide a hydraulic rack for the Z4 M. Here's the Wiki link to power steering. The part that galls me is the removal of the path from the tires to the hands. This'll shoot down this car in my mind. Bummer.

Artificial feel - no purchase - plain and simple.
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      07-03-2007, 05:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Houston - we have a problem. Here's a link to an article regarding BMW's EPSand the need to provide a hydraulic rack for the Z4 M. Here's the Wiki link to power steering. The part that galls me is the removal of the path from the tires to the hands. This'll shoot down this car in my mind. Bummer.

Artificial feel - no purchase - plain and simple.
Sort of judgmental to ditch the car based on a wikipedia entry on power steering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
A test drive is a must - but I've yet to drive an electric only assisted rack that provides even barely decent steering feel.
And that list includes what?
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      07-03-2007, 05:14 PM   #10
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See my earlier post above. I've driven about every current GM car with magnasteer, plus the Acura NSX (a couple of years ago - had a press car for a few days - odd steering feel).

Yes a test drive is required - but based on my experience with electric steering it doesn't sound good - given that BMW decided that they needed to put a hydraulic rack in the Z4 M because of steering feel.
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      07-03-2007, 05:38 PM   #11
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Ah - Karl Bauer at Edmunds.com found it to be about as good as the Porsche Boxster (link here) - that's a bit of a relief - again if I can feel what the tires are doing in the wheel I'll be fine. (I subbed for an auto journalist pal at a Porsche long lead for the Boxster '02 model year. We got instruction with 'real' drivers at Mont Tremblant - GREAT race track!!)

With the original Pilots on the Miata I could feel the sidewalls transition over lane striping - that's what I really want in steering feel - again it's dependent on how well the the info from the tread can be transmitted through steel to the wheel and into your hands - but it's very important in an enthusiasts car. For instance the Infiniti M45 (latest model) uses a hydraulic rack and is as numb as sin - artifical as all get out.
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      07-03-2007, 07:32 PM   #12
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Talking

Okey dokey - here's a bit of what I've learned on Electric/Electronic Power Steering. It would appear that there are three common approaches to implementing EPS. 1) Place the electronic assist between the steering wheel and the pinion shaft - 2) Place the electronic assist on the pinion shaft - 3) place the electronic assist on the rack. Of the three #3 promises to have the best feel (since the assist does not interrupt the link between the hands and the rack itself - unlike option #1).

I'm a member of the SAE, so I rumaged around their website looking for info. Everything (of any value) they have on EPS they want to charge for (sheesh - where's the membership benefit).

I also ran into an odd tidbit that may have explained the turn-in quirk of the NSX steering unit - it uses a recirculating ball assist unit!

Here's an article that mentions the ZF steering system, but better yet a picture (showing the type of electronic assist) is included. The picture is attached and it's a type #3.

Here's some light bedtime reading also.
Attached Images
 
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      07-03-2007, 08:02 PM   #13
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Hmmm - maybe not #3 - the link here claims that BMW implements the assist on the steering column.

Well here is a *.pdf file that may show the difference between types 2 & 3 . The picture shows how the assist is implemented. It drives the pinion shaft it would appear.

And here is the ZF Lenksysteme site in English.
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      07-03-2007, 09:02 PM   #14
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atr-hugo, glad to see such a tech-oriented member!

But I have to say, that Edmunds review you quoted is a minority opinion. Most of the reviews I've read criticized the Z4 for the lack of steering feel. Above all, the fact that M division replaced it with the old M3 rack for the M roadster/coupe strongly suggests that the ESP unit in the Z4 is not the best choice for a serious performance car.

Having said that, I doubt you will find a car, regardless of the brand, with the kind of steering feel you described unless you can go exotic.
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      07-03-2007, 09:16 PM   #15
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It should be very interesting to see how the 1 Coupe will steer. Keep in mind a couple of things however: 1) the implementation of the EPS is not same on every vehicle and the Z4's setup most likely wont apply to the 1er; 2) The 1 3-Door has received the EPS system and all of the reviews have been complementary (pick up the June issue of evo which compares the 130i against the Audi S3, Alfa Romeo Brera, and Mazda3 MPS) of that steering rack; 3) The 1 Coupe will receive a modified steering rack from the 1 hatchback. This from Car Magazine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Magazine
It also promises to be a scalpel sharp drive. Dr Dieter Konik, head of vehicle dynamics on the 135i project completely overhauled the 135i to put the driver first. “We achieved a perfect fifty-fifty weight distribution by having a heavier rear end and using lighter metals up front,” he told CAR. “We also introduced new spring and dampers, redesigned the front anti-roll bar for sharper turn-in and widened the rear track by 20mm. And we worked hard on the electric steering to heighten feel and response, improved the brakes and recalibrated the traction and stability controls, so the driver can have a lot more …” he opposite locks an imaginary steering wheel “… fun.” Both 135i and 123d get a version of BMW Motorsport’s electronically controlled limited slip diff.
It should be interesting to see how it turns out but Im not too concerned. I think that you (atr-hugo) should bomb down to the BMW dealer and test drive a Z4 (with the sport button on) to get an idea for what it might be like. I would say that the 1 Coupe will get a rack no worse than the Z4 when it comes to feel.
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      07-03-2007, 11:15 PM   #16
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I have a good feeling about the steering feel BMW will put into the 1-series coupe. They've made so much noise about it being a return to BMW's of the past that I can't help but think they're going to really put their best foot forward on this one. It's just consistent with the marketing direction for the car. With so many other models, even M cars, they have to compromise more toward a civilized nature to capture the big $$$$$ buyers. This time that shouldn't be a driver. I'm also basing this on language in the press release indicating that they've turned down the electronic nanny in the DSC. It's going to be a modern driver's car. That's what we want, and this time they're going to give it to us.
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      07-04-2007, 07:36 AM   #17
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Good deal - sounds like they're aware (which is all I can ask). BTW - the lack of hydaulic power steering means more horsies to the ground - and I'm all for that!! ; -)
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      07-04-2007, 07:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower View Post
This from Car Magazine:

...It should be interesting to see how it turns out but Im not too concerned.
THANK YOU, MPower, for that find. I, like atr_hugo, am more concerned with driving dynamics than power or outright speed. I guess I was sorta taking for granted that the 1er would at least match the 3er's level of communicative steering. This thread had really started to get me down, but your post helped a lot.
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      07-04-2007, 07:54 AM   #19
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Hey MPower - is there a link to the Car Magazine article you could share? Thanks for finding that BTW.

(And the Evo article will be interesting - I have some experience with the Mazda3 so that may be good.)
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      07-04-2007, 08:22 AM   #20
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Warning Thread Hijack!! - Evo car tests

Ha - went over to the Evo site and looked at their "10 Worst Cars Tested" - I have driven three of them!
1) The 'hot rod' Beetle was a "Huh?" - I kept hearing a clunk from behind me when I'd get on it - wondered if the last journalist had left something in the trunk - turns out it was the stinking auto-deploying spoiler making the racket. :mad:
2) The Saab 9-3 Viggen - I was coming through a blind uphill (very tight) corner sawing away at the wheel trying to keep the dam thing in the lane when some 'Blue Hair' in a Buick comes around the corner - man did her eyes get WIDE !!
3) The Lexus SC430 (posuer mobile) - .
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      07-04-2007, 10:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Hey MPower - is there a link to the Car Magazine article you could share? Thanks for finding that BTW.

(And the Evo article will be interesting - I have some experience with the Mazda3 so that may be good.)
The Car magazine article is here:
New BMW 135i

If you wish, I could scan you the evo article.
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      07-04-2007, 10:41 AM   #22
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[quote=MPower;5117]The Car magazine article is here:
New BMW 135i

If you wish, I could scan you the evo article.[/quote]

I'll try to be sensitive to copyright issues - the pointer to the Car article is more than adequate, thanks!!

Again, thanks for taking the time to expound on this subject.
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