Looking for an upgrade...advice please!

komitao · 01-24-2010, 03:02 PM

I currently have an 09 135i with the standard HiFi audio...I have upgraded the amp to a PDX 4.150 to power the underseats and front components leaving the the rear to be powered off the factory amp.

What I'm looking for now is a speaker upgrade...I'm considering earthquakes underseats and a set of rainbow slx 4" components.

Will a processor like audio control or cleansweep benefit me a lot for this set up?

edit: is there a better alternative?

Also for gurus out there..what is the ideal xover setting for my curren set up? I currently have stock underseats and stock components with my pdx 4.150...I have my underseats pointed to 40hz and max gain and a little under 160hz for the components with no gain...I have no idea how this xover stuff works but it seems to sound pretty good to me. Any advice would be much appreciated!

mineo77 · 01-24-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitao

I currently have an 09 135i with the standard HiFi audio...I have upgraded the amp to a PDX 4.150 to power the underseats and front components leaving the the rear to be powered off the factory amp.

What I'm looking for now is a speaker upgrade...I'm considering earthquakes underseats and a set of rainbow slx 4" components.

Will a processor like audio control or cleansweep benefit me a lot for this set up?

edit: is there a better alternative?

Also for gurus out there..what is the ideal xover setting for my curren set up? I currently have stock underseats and stock components with my pdx 4.150...I have my underseats pointed to 40hz and max gain and a little under 160hz for the components with no gain...I have no idea how this xover stuff works but it seems to sound pretty good to me. Any advice would be much appreciated!

signal coming from the hifi system should be flat, shouldnt need a processor

VP Electricity · 01-25-2010, 11:17 AM

As mineo says, if you have the outputs of your HU driving the PDX, the signal it's getting from the HU is nice and flat.

The way crossovers work is.. (the way it works is, the train moves, and not the station : )

They are filters which operate at a given rate.

So Hertz means cycles per second that air is vibrating, and we consider the audible spectrum to be 20 to 20K cycles per second. But not all cycles are created equal!

An octave in this case should be thought of as a doubling or a halving. So, for example, your xover is set at 40. One octave lower than 40 is 20. One octave higher than 40 is 80. The human ear perceives the difference between 20 and 40, and the difference between 40 and 80, as seemingly equal.

So it's not the numerical difference, it's the multiple difference.

If you think of a crossover as a filter, you get the picture.

If a crossover has a slope at 12dB/octave, that means that for a low-pass crossover set to 40, at 80 (one octave higher) the signal has been attenuated 12dB.

You can hear 12dB quieter. It's not magic. Speakers will still play that 12db quieter signal (sometimes loudly, if the signal is louder at that note than at the crossover frequency).

So setting crossovers in your case, the LP should start at 100 or 120 and the HP should start at 150 or so. Gapping is OK, because the stopbands (the filtered notes) still get played, and acoustically sum together. But start there and turn it until it sounds good.

justbe · 03-27-2010, 04:58 AM

komitao, I am brand new here, just got a 2009 135 convertible with the standard Hi Fi audio and wondered how easy it was to put the PDX 4.150 in. Did it immediately improve the sound quality with the stock speakers? I am looking to do the easiest upgrade with most bang for the buck and appreciate any info.

komitao · 03-28-2010, 01:15 PM

if you have the standard HiFi, it's really easy to put in the amp as long as you got the diagram to figure out where the speaker in/out puts are located. pretty much straight forward like any other car

it's actually even easier because the battery is in the trunk as well.

the improvement was dramatic for me, i'm still running a 4.150 pdx for the front stage...i've got my stock components crossed at 150~ ish highpass with the gain turned all the way down...or else there will be a lot of ground noise

and i have my low pass for the underseats around 40~50 i think...don't remember and i have this gain turned all the way up

VP, do you have any advice on removing ground noise? although it's not super loud, it's really annoying. especially when the CD player is on, i can hear the cd spinning and similar activities through the speakers

Technic · 03-28-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitao

I currently have an 09 135i with the standard HiFi audio...I have upgraded the amp to a PDX 4.150 to power the underseats and front components leaving the the rear to be powered off the factory amp.

What I'm looking for now is a speaker upgrade...I'm considering earthquakes underseats and a set of rainbow slx 4" components.

Will a processor like audio control or cleansweep benefit me a lot for this set up?

edit: is there a better alternative?

Also for gurus out there..what is the ideal xover setting for my curren set up? I currently have stock underseats and stock components with my pdx 4.150...I have my underseats pointed to 40hz and max gain and a little under 160hz for the components with no gain...I have no idea how this xover stuff works but it seems to sound pretty good to me. Any advice would be much appreciated!

Something is not quite right with that "max gain" in the PDX 4.150 for the OEM woofers outputs. Max gain means that your input signal is way less than 0.5V at nominal volume... the OEM HU/iDrive outputs in the HiFi system are around 5V balanced.

Your wiring is wrong somewhere.

komitao · 03-28-2010, 07:03 PM

currently i just have the underseats wiring taken out from the harness and directly to the pdx...is there another way of doing so?

mangotangoe · 03-28-2010, 08:39 PM

Where do you have the PDX mounted and how did you ground the amp?
I had a similar setup. Mounted amp in same position as stock amp (left rear) and used the existing ground lug. I was able to get a completely quiet signal. However, I don't think I ever had the gains turned more than half way. Also, think I had my sws8 lowpassed at 150hz, with the stock fronts highpassed around 175hz.

Technic · 03-28-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitao

currently i just have the underseats wiring taken out from the harness and directly to the pdx...is there another way of doing so?

You should be using at least two outputs of the OEM HU/iDrive -as inputs to the PDX and nothing else.

komitao · 03-29-2010, 09:30 AM

Hmm according to this diagram

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865

I have the yellow/black wire output going to the pdx, and the brown/orange going to the pdx...and then to the woofers

is this incorrect?

actually, i don't even know how the shop did it anymore lols...i'm gonna rip it apart and take a look at this...

what would be the correct wires i should be using? thanks a lot technic...

Technic · 03-29-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitao

Hmm according to this diagram

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865

I have the yellow/black wire output going to the pdx, and the brown/orange going to the pdx...and then to the woofers

is this incorrect?

actually, i don't even know how the shop did it anymore lols...i'm gonna rip it apart and take a look at this...

what would be the correct wires i should be using? thanks a lot technic...

Based on that diagram the inputs to the PDX should be:

- Yellow/Red = Left front +
- Brown/Orange = Left front -
- Blue/Red = Right front +
- Brown/Orange = Right front -

Those are the wires between the OEM HU and the OEM amp. You should not be using any of the OEM amp outputs.

mineo77 · 03-29-2010, 10:25 PM

hows the upgrade going? did you get rid of the noise yet

justbe · 04-03-2010, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitao

if you have the standard HiFi, it's really easy to put in the amp as long as you got the diagram to figure out where the speaker in/out puts are located. pretty much straight forward like any other car

it's actually even easier because the battery is in the trunk as well.

the improvement was dramatic for me, i'm still running a 4.150 pdx for the front stage...i've got my stock components crossed at 150~ ish highpass with the gain turned all the way down...or else there will be a lot of ground noise

and i have my low pass for the underseats around 40~50 i think...don't remember and i have this gain turned all the way up

VP, do you have any advice on removing ground noise? although it's not super loud, it's really annoying. especially when the CD player is on, i can hear the cd spinning and similar activities through the speakers

Thanks for the info. Any tip on finding someone in the Los Angeles area to install this for me? I don't trust my tinkering and don't want to void the warranty or be without transportation, esp with my motorcycle in the shop.

Also, why not just replace the factory amp entirely with the pdx or a different one if the pdx can't drive 8 speakers and the 2 bass?

komitao · 04-03-2010, 01:28 PM

^ I am more concerned about the car's front stage and strong mid bass than actual low booms to shake everything up. Our car's rear deck shelf is a huge rattle area and I didn't want to spend extra $$ on to dampen that up.

My current upgrade plans are to go with either a quieter amp to power earthquake sws 8s underseats (at least 150rms, maybe even 300 with proper dampening) aand then maybe the 4" focals that focal offers...

or i might look into some good 5 1/4 components as well.

I don't have any plans on the rears at all :P

I used to have a 10w3 in the trunk...i didn't like the extra weight and I actually felt it...

mineo77 · 04-03-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitao

^ I am more concerned about the car's front stage and strong mid bass than actual low booms to shake everything up. Our car's rear deck shelf is a huge rattle area and I didn't want to spend extra $$ on to dampen that up.

My current upgrade plans are to go with either a quieter amp to power earthquake sws 8s underseats (at least 150rms, maybe even 300 with proper dampening) aand then maybe the 4" focals that focal offers...

or i might look into some good 5 1/4 components as well.

I don't have any plans on the rears at all :P

I used to have a 10w3 in the trunk...i didn't like the extra weight and I actually felt it...

I would avoid the SWS 8's and spring for the Morel ADW9 add-on comps. You will be surprised on the true midbass of these and will not find it necessary to search for 5 1/4 comps.

IF you want sub bass...then you NEED as sub. The SWS 8's just dont cut it...they sound like shit IMHO. If you want midbass, then the SWS 8's will improve, but sound like a underpowered sub trying to produce sub bass but rather producing midbass...sounds empty. The Morel's are well balanced and sound amazing. At times i turn my sub completely off and the sound stage is very impressive with good depth and clarity.

Just my 2 cents

leave the rears alone, no reason to do anything with that

bkochuk · 04-05-2010, 09:43 AM

are the Morels as "easy" to install as the earthquakes? in other words, does it require major modification since they're 9"?

VP Electricity · 04-05-2010, 10:01 AM

In calling them a 9", I am using the maker's chosen nomenlature... They aren't much bigger than the SWS-8. They are bigger, but it's useful to remember that there aren't standards to speaker sizes nor to metric to English speaker size conversion.

With the right spacer adapter, it fits without any enclosure mod to the top at all. There is slight mod to the center of the bottom of the enclosure, grinding off a plastic tab to allow the magnet to fit. This is done for the SWS-8 also, but is a little more involved here - but not more that 3 minutes with a dremel for either.

There is more complexity to retaining the OE grille. The Morel grill can probably be modified, and there are other approaches too. We have used the grille for another speaker as a spacer to keep the carpet off the Morel, sandwiched between the top of the new grille and the ubderside of the stock grille.

01-24-2010, 03:02 PM	#1
komitao Enlisted Member 1 Rep 34 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	Looking for an upgrade...advice please! I currently have an 09 135i with the standard HiFi audio...I have upgraded the amp to a PDX 4.150 to power the underseats and front components leaving the the rear to be powered off the factory amp. What I'm looking for now is a speaker upgrade...I'm considering earthquakes underseats and a set of rainbow slx 4" components. Will a processor like audio control or cleansweep benefit me a lot for this set up? edit: is there a better alternative? Also for gurus out there..what is the ideal xover setting for my curren set up? I currently have stock underseats and stock components with my pdx 4.150...I have my underseats pointed to 40hz and max gain and a little under 160hz for the components with no gain...I have no idea how this xover stuff works but it seems to sound pretty good to me. Any advice would be much appreciated!
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01-25-2010, 11:17 AM	#3
VP Electricity Brigadier General 289 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	As mineo says, if you have the outputs of your HU driving the PDX, the signal it's getting from the HU is nice and flat. The way crossovers work is.. (the way it works is, the train moves, and not the station : ) They are filters which operate at a given rate. So Hertz means cycles per second that air is vibrating, and we consider the audible spectrum to be 20 to 20K cycles per second. But not all cycles are created equal! An octave in this case should be thought of as a doubling or a halving. So, for example, your xover is set at 40. One octave lower than 40 is 20. One octave higher than 40 is 80. The human ear perceives the difference between 20 and 40, and the difference between 40 and 80, as seemingly equal. So it's not the numerical difference, it's the multiple difference. If you think of a crossover as a filter, you get the picture. If a crossover has a slope at 12dB/octave, that means that for a low-pass crossover set to 40, at 80 (one octave higher) the signal has been attenuated 12dB. You can hear 12dB quieter. It's not magic. Speakers will still play that 12db quieter signal (sometimes loudly, if the signal is louder at that note than at the crossover frequency). So setting crossovers in your case, the LP should start at 100 or 120 and the HP should start at 150 or so. Gapping is OK, because the stopbands (the filtered notes) still get played, and acoustically sum together. But start there and turn it until it sounds good.
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03-27-2010, 04:58 AM	#4
justbe New Member 0 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 2009 135i Convertible Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	komitao, I am brand new here, just got a 2009 135 convertible with the standard Hi Fi audio and wondered how easy it was to put the PDX 4.150 in. Did it immediately improve the sound quality with the stock speakers? I am looking to do the easiest upgrade with most bang for the buck and appreciate any info.
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03-28-2010, 01:15 PM	#5
komitao Enlisted Member 1 Rep 34 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	if you have the standard HiFi, it's really easy to put in the amp as long as you got the diagram to figure out where the speaker in/out puts are located. pretty much straight forward like any other car it's actually even easier because the battery is in the trunk as well. the improvement was dramatic for me, i'm still running a 4.150 pdx for the front stage...i've got my stock components crossed at 150~ ish highpass with the gain turned all the way down...or else there will be a lot of ground noise and i have my low pass for the underseats around 40~50 i think...don't remember and i have this gain turned all the way up VP, do you have any advice on removing ground noise? although it's not super loud, it's really annoying. especially when the CD player is on, i can hear the cd spinning and similar activities through the speakers
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2010, 07:03 PM	#7
komitao Enlisted Member 1 Rep 34 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	currently i just have the underseats wiring taken out from the harness and directly to the pdx...is there another way of doing so?
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03-28-2010, 08:39 PM	#8
mangotangoe Private First Class 14 Rep 123 Posts Drives: 1M Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Canada iTrader: (2)	Where do you have the PDX mounted and how did you ground the amp? I had a similar setup. Mounted amp in same position as stock amp (left rear) and used the existing ground lug. I was able to get a completely quiet signal. However, I don't think I ever had the gains turned more than half way. Also, think I had my sws8 lowpassed at 150hz, with the stock fronts highpassed around 175hz. __________________
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03-29-2010, 09:30 AM	#10
komitao Enlisted Member 1 Rep 34 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	Hmm according to this diagram http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865 I have the yellow/black wire output going to the pdx, and the brown/orange going to the pdx...and then to the woofers is this incorrect? actually, i don't even know how the shop did it anymore lols...i'm gonna rip it apart and take a look at this... what would be the correct wires i should be using? thanks a lot technic...
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03-29-2010, 10:25 PM	#12
mineo77 Lieutenant Colonel 123 Rep 1,925 Posts Drives: 2010 135i,1989 PRO3,2001 530i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Portland,OR iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i coupe [7.56]	hows the upgrade going? did you get rid of the noise yet __________________ 135i coupe  6MT  TiAg  ///M sport http://www.rhominnovations.com www.musicarNW.com www.unitedBMWonline.com
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04-03-2010, 01:28 PM	#14
komitao Enlisted Member 1 Rep 34 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	^ I am more concerned about the car's front stage and strong mid bass than actual low booms to shake everything up. Our car's rear deck shelf is a huge rattle area and I didn't want to spend extra $$ on to dampen that up. My current upgrade plans are to go with either a quieter amp to power earthquake sws 8s underseats (at least 150rms, maybe even 300 with proper dampening) aand then maybe the 4" focals that focal offers... or i might look into some good 5 1/4 components as well. I don't have any plans on the rears at all :P I used to have a 10w3 in the trunk...i didn't like the extra weight and I actually felt it...
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04-05-2010, 09:43 AM	#16
bkochuk constantly curious 6 Rep 103 Posts Drives: '09 135 sedona red/boston gray Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: chapel hill, NC iTrader: (0)	are the Morels as "easy" to install as the earthquakes? in other words, does it require major modification since they're 9"?
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04-05-2010, 10:01 AM	#17
VP Electricity Brigadier General 289 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	In calling them a 9", I am using the maker's chosen nomenlature... They aren't much bigger than the SWS-8. They are bigger, but it's useful to remember that there aren't standards to speaker sizes nor to metric to English speaker size conversion. With the right spacer adapter, it fits without any enclosure mod to the top at all. There is slight mod to the center of the bottom of the enclosure, grinding off a plastic tab to allow the magnet to fit. This is done for the SWS-8 also, but is a little more involved here - but not more that 3 minutes with a dremel for either. There is more complexity to retaining the OE grille. The Morel grill can probably be modified, and there are other approaches too. We have used the grille for another speaker as a spacer to keep the carpet off the Morel, sandwiched between the top of the new grille and the ubderside of the stock grille.
	Appreciate 0 Quote