Views on 1M Brakes ?

[1M Tex]

Guess you need to visit Texas Neil so we can find out?!

[Em/1]

He already did--where were you!?

[Piets94]

Hello 1m owners. Long time reader, first time poster. ..

I've driven an M3 on track with ferodo ds2500 all round, and the consistency of the pedal lap after lap of hard stopping stunned me. In saying that, if changing out the stock pads of the 1m for the track, would you keep to the same compound of pad front and rear, or is there merit to having a different compound in the rear seeing as it's the fronts doing most of the braking?

[ayao]

Originally Posted by Piets94

Hello 1m owners. Long time reader, first time poster. ..

I've driven an M3 on track with ferodo ds2500 all round, and the consistency of the pedal lap after lap of hard stopping stunned me. In saying that, if changing out the stock pads of the 1m for the track, would you keep to the same compound of pad front and rear, or is there merit to having a different compound in the rear seeing as it's the fronts doing most of the braking?

I asked this question of Dave Zeckhausen a while back and he recommended using the same compounds F/R. Perhaps it has something to do with maintaining proper braking bias?

[fastauto]

the rotors are fine. the pads are not. like the other said, get pads, ss lines, good fluid and you should be ready to rock and roll. if your feeling crazy, run some air ducts to them.

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Piets94

Hello 1m owners. Long time reader, first time poster. ..

I've driven an M3 on track with ferodo ds2500 all round, and the consistency of the pedal lap after lap of hard stopping stunned me. In saying that, if changing out the stock pads of the 1m for the track, would you keep to the same compound of pad front and rear, or is there merit to having a different compound in the rear seeing as it's the fronts doing most of the braking?

You can get away with only changing the fronts without any issues.

[ayao]

Seems like shifting brake bias too far forward would potentially unsettle the car under hard braking...

[ace11]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

upgrading to aftermarket calipers or other brake/rotor combos is completely unneccesary and should only be done for aesthetic reasons.

weight....?

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by ayao

Seems like shifting brake bias too far forward would potentially unsettle the car under hard braking...

It gets a little complicated. Suspension travel and braking bias are two separate issues. The harder you brake, the potential for more nose dive and possible rear lock-up/ABS intervention which could be exacerbated by using an aggressive rear pad.

I've never had issues with running OEM rear pads and race pads in the front, PFC-01, and I know many others including e9XM cars that have done the same.

[ayao]

Good to know -- proof is in the pudding. I wouldn't be sad if there were two fewer pads to swap and darn retaining clips to contend with for track days.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ace11

weight....?

going racing soon? dowhatyoulike.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

It gets a little complicated. Suspension travel and braking bias are two separate issues. The harder you brake, the potential for more nose dive and possible rear lock-up/ABS intervention which could be exacerbated by using an aggressive rear pad.

I've never had issues with running OEM rear pads and race pads in the front, PFC-01, and I know many others including e9XM cars that have done the same.

+1 , I have run PFC-01s up front and stock rear pads - no issues

I have run aftermarket pads front and rear as well, and agree.. the brake bias is better.... but if one doesnt want the major expense of spendy rear pads as well.. one can do front only.

[ace11]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

going racing soon? dowhatyoulike.

well aren't we talking about braking with regard to tracking the car in this thread? i hope if you're serious about it, weight is also an issue for some people...

[Piets94]

Whilst swapping out only the front pads appears to work just fine, if money/time wasn't a consideration, what would be the IDEAL pads to use for a track day of sessions approx 5-6 laps of hard braking at a time? Is the concensus track pads of the same compound? Are the OEM pads a different compound front to rear, because that to me would indicate where the bias should be?

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Piets94

Whilst swapping out only the front pads appears to work just fine, if money/time wasn't a consideration, what would be the IDEAL pads to use for a track day of sessions approx 5-6 laps of hard braking at a time? Is the concensus track pads of the same compound? Are the OEM pads a different compound front to rear, because that to me would indicate where the bias should be?

Not sure what the difference in OEM compound front to rear is, but the 1M rear pads are definitely different from the M3 (different part numbers) which leads us to believe that the 1M rear pads are less aggressive in order to maintain a brake bias resulting from the 1M having a shorter wheelbase and being lighter than the M3. With that said, it probably doesn't make sense to run M3 race/track pads both in the front and rear as the M3 is different from the 1M; however, I haven't heard of any complaints from anyone running M3race/track pads both in the front and rear.

I for one experienced the rear wiggle during hard braking when I used the same race pads on the front and rear, but I don't have enough data to conclude if this was due to the rear pads or the suspension setup.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

Not sure what the difference in OEM compound front to rear is, but the 1M rear pads are definitely different from the M3 (different part numbers) which leads us to believe that the 1M rear pads are less aggressive in order to maintain a brake bias resulting from the 1M having a shorter wheelbase and being lighter than the M3. With that said, it probably doesn't make sense to run M3 race/track pads both in the front and rear as the M3 is different from the 1M; however, I haven't heard of any complaints from anyone running M3race/track pads both in the front and rear.

I for one experienced the rear wiggle during hard braking when I used the same race pads on the front and rear, but I don't have enough data to conclude if this was due to the rear pads or the suspension setup.

I've experienced the same rear wiggle but was blaming CBC ... maybe it's a brake bias issue (PFC-08s F/R on a stock suspension) or a combination of the two. I never considered that.

I just glanced at Stoptech's brake bias white paper and my head is spinning -- drive more, read less?

[Piets94]

Agree with driving more and reading less! Might just have to try different scenarios and find the best set up for a given track and individual diver. Some might like a bit of a rear wiggle, others could hate it.

My take is to go all out on the fronts like a DTC70, and a little less aggressive on the rear like a DTC60 for the track. Hate cleaning that dust off from rims though

[MrRoboto]

I use the ferodo ds2500's for daily driving and track use. They are a great all around pad..the only issue I have with them is no spring clips, so they bang around allot.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Piets94

Whilst swapping out only the front pads appears to work just fine, if money/time wasn't a consideration, what would be the IDEAL pads to use for a track day of sessions approx 5-6 laps of hard braking at a time? Is the concensus track pads of the same compound? Are the OEM pads a different compound front to rear, because that to me would indicate where the bias should be?

You will definitely want to have a pad that has clips on the back or the pad will rattle in the calipers and be very annoying on street and track.

If money IS a consideration, because for most of us.. it simply is.. For just 5-6 laps... the stock pad is certainly adequate... however I think a moderate street/track pad like the Ferodo 2500 is going to be a nice improvement, and it will be a pad you don't need to swap out after the track day is done. Ferodo fans that want to step up to a more aggressive pad can go to the Ferodo DS3000 or 3000E. Having used the Ferodo 3000 and PFC-01 on a different vehicle. (an E30 M3) I preferred the PFC... it is my absolute favorite track pad after 10-15 years of doing track events.


The concensus best full track pad to date appears to be the PFC-01 or PFC-08. The 08 is an endurance compound.. the 01's originally came out without clips and have also been superceded by the 08 I believe. . The 08s do have clips I am told - I have a box on the shelf in the garage... I guess I could confirm. If you want braking performance that will put you into the windshield practically, and be fade free, great pedal feel even after many laps.. then this is the place to be. Brake dust will of course be more heavy.

I am sure there are many other great pads out there.. I am sure as many as people's recommendations for their favorite motor oil, but this one has been used by many thus far.


As far as the wiggle from the rear. I think that it is worse when the pad compounds are the same (which would mean stock or " normal bias to the rear" , but I also think it really primarily occurs with late, very hard, sudden brake application from the driver. A firm initial brake input with progressively firmer force as one is braking may help a bit. if you like to throw on the anchors with 100% brake pressure deep into the corner, (as someone when they PANIC and hit the brakes too late!) you will probably end up with a good wiggle at the rear, so be prepared.

[Splinterz88]

I can confirm PFC 08s now come with clips.

I too also have a stock suspension and ran with PFC08 for the first time and experience the rear wiggle under braking. Wasn't quite sure what it was, but seemed to become less of an issue as I got used to modulating the brake at higher speeds throughout the weekend.

[DRG420]

Hi! have you used PFC08 on the street or better to say can you? or do you swap them before the track day? I have changed the brake lines and the fluid on stock and it's already an improvement, now i received PFC08 pads but not sure if I can just fit them for DD? anyone? thanks a lot.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by DRG420

Hi! have you used PFC08 on the street or better to say can you? or do you swap them before the track day? I have changed the brake lines and the fluid on stock and it's already an improvement, now i received PFC08 pads but not sure if I can just fit them for DD? anyone? thanks a lot.

They work fine for the street but the squealing is unbearable. As a result, I swap.
As others have pointed out, the new ones do have clips, but I think they kind of suck. The retaining rivet loosen and don't hold the clip snug against the brake pad.