Forced Induction--128i

[Ash-Halim]

First of all, if someone was to add a turbocharger or supercharger to a 128i(I am aware we already discussed this in another thread), which will be less of a hastle on the n52 engine? In other words, with which one (a single turbo, twin-turbo, or a supercharger) will our engine last the longest?

Second, since no one has produced a turbo or supercharger for the 128i, will a universal type actually fit and work? And where to get one?

[Greenkirby21]

Originally Posted by Ash-Halim

First of all, if someone was to add a turbocharger or supercharger to a 128i(I am aware we already discussed this in another thread), which will be less of a hastle on the n52 engine? In other words, with which one (a single turbo, twin-turbo, or a supercharger) will our engine last the longest?

Second, since no one has produced a turbo or supercharger for the 128i, will a universal type actually fit and work? And where to get one?

this might help u, expected to be out in a few days

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405478

[Evice]

I am really excited to see some results from this. I am just 28k away from basic warranty. I might try it! hehe

[130i-ftw]

this could be nice, I hope it will be reliable and easy to fit in ?

[The1]

for all the work that goes into this stuff, (and i'm not a fan of superchargers) i'd say a supercharger kit would be a lot easier and less expensive to do. it will take up less room in the engine compartment too by the time the intake manifold and the exhaust manifolds have both been modified for a turbo.

and since you X28 engined guys are already used to NA engine feel, it would be a more natural feeling with progressive power. and probably easier to tune the engine with the valvetronic since the power will always be the same.

[Evice]

Originally Posted by maxnix

It's a real hassel when you don't have castle, but nobody deserves a "hastle."

Can't imagine why anyone wouild want an add on sytem when you can obtain a fully engineered one from the OEM.

Yet another retarded comment from you. Why do you care? There is no fully engineered supercharged engine.

[BrokenVert]

I think he was saying that a BMW engineered fi 128 already exist and iscalled a 135.

Regardless tho a supercharger is a lot easier to do on an NA car than a turbo

[SlicktopTTZ]

A centrifugal supercharger should not be that difficult to do, assuming you had a tuning system to write new fuel/timing/throttle maps, such as the Stand Back 2 by Custom Performance Engineering.

[Sdracing]

Originally Posted by maxnix

It's a real hassel when you don't have castle, but nobody deserves a "hastle."

Can't imagine why anyone wouild want an add on sytem when you can obtain a fully engineered one from the OEM.

Fully engineered 135i?

Fuel Pumps?

[130i-ftw]

Originally Posted by maxnix

It's a real hassel when you don't have castle, but nobody deserves a "hastle."

Can't imagine why anyone wouild want an add on sytem when you can obtain a fully engineered one from the OEM.

In case you haven't noticed, the N52 engines equip other models (E85-87 ...) that don't offer the N54-55 engines. I also find the upgrade coherent for the 128i, a reliable high-reving and responsive engine ...

[Evice]

Originally Posted by 130i-ftw

In case you haven't noticed, the N52 engines equip other models (E85-87 ...) that don't offer the N54-55 engines. I also find the upgrade coherent for the 128i, a reliable high-reving and responsive engine ...

At least someone knows what he's talking about!

[gnat]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I think he was saying that a BMW engineered fi 128 already exist and iscalled a 135.

My understanding is that there are differences between the N52 and N54/55 other than just turbos bolted on.

I would, however, agree that if you are looking at buying a new/used 128 with the plan to put a turbo on it then you should just buy a 135 instead. There are benefits (longevity-wise) of an engine that was designed from the ground up to be a turbo vs adding a turbo to a NA engine.

I personally would rather go with a SC than a turbo though. While they don't give as much tune ability or high HP values (especially for the cost), they tend to last longer and cause less grief than aftermarket turbos and you don't have the lag issues (your power curve stays roughly the same, there is just more of it).

[BrokenVert]

^no they're are differences between the two engines...^in design and materials.

However a supercharger puts more drag on an engine because of the mechanical connection. This can cause a bit more ware, especially on drive belts to the blower, etc.

But it's really 6 to one half a dozen to the other ^in terms of longevity. However a supercharger instal on an NA car is far easier and more straight forward than a turbo. It also requires less engineered parts.

Originally Posted by gnat

My understanding is that there are differences between the N52 and N54/55 other than just turbos bolted on.

I would, however, agree that if you are looking at buying a new/used 128 with the plan to put a turbo on it then you should just buy a 135 instead. There are benefits (longevity-wise) of an engine that was designed from the ground up to be a turbo vs adding a turbo to a NA engine.

I personally would rather go with a SC than a turbo though. While they don't give as much tune ability or high HP values (especially for the cost), they tend to last longer and cause less grief than aftermarket turbos and you don't have the lag issues (your power curve stays roughly the same, there is just more of it).

[Dackelone]

I think IF a 128o owner wanted to go with more Hp... I would be looking into an engine swap! Can you imagine a e46 M3 motor (340-ish Hp) in a 128i ! All NA power! Now that would rock!!

The reality is that won't happen until the car value prices drop some. Maybe in five years we will start to see that happen. Just as we are now seeing more and more e46 M3's with supercharger strapped on them. Because the car's are relatively cheap to buy and mod.

PS: sorry to thread-jack.

[CentralPA E82]

If only BMW thought of that. The 1M would rock with the E46 M motor. Forced induction is great and all, but I have difficulty embracing a FI M car. Wish they kept it NA.

[Evice]

Speaking of NA I6s. I believe soon we will be able to extract out that HP from that N52. Yes serious modification will be needed, but I believe it can be done. I firmly believe N52 is a better engine then N54/55

[Ash-Halim]

[Ash-Halim]

What do you guys think about the flashes available for our cars? I know activeautowerke has one (15hp) and OE Tuning (25hp, although we have an issue if they are legit or not).

Do you believe, in the future, there will be better tunes available for us yeilding better gains like those in Europe(i.e. gains of up to 40-50 hp)??

[gnat]

Originally Posted by Ash-Halim

Do you believe, in the future, there will be better tunes available for us yeilding better gains like those in Europe(i.e. gains of up to 40-50 hp)??

Yes as well as things like Turbos or SCs. I think the big thing with ECU tuning is that most require the installer to have physical access to your ECU. That means you have to be close or willing to pull your ECU and send it to them (you can actually do that for a couple of the German tuners). Given that the US is so big compared to Europe, the first means that you would have to have a pretty big local market of people wanting such tunes (which doesn't currently exist) and the second will kill business too as most people (especially while under warranty) aren't willing to pull their ECU and mail it away (with the risk that it gets lost or damaged).

Once the N52 is retired and the cars start to be picked up by enthusiasts/moders, you'll see the options start to increase. It's still probably another 5 years off though for anyone that isn't willing to spend serious cash.

[IDBMW]

The SC would be the way to go but your road block will be the tune. A SC BMW would be a different animal. Also, one other thing to consider is if I am not mistaking the N54 does not have valvetronic and has a beefier block than the N52. BMW had issues with turbo, valvetronic and blocks so they did not use the new magnesium aluminum materials in the block. So you run the risk of damaging the engine if you push to much air in.

I hope your used to living in the garage under the hood of because if you take on a project like this you will spend all your time under the hood and say good by if your 128i is your daily driver/only vehicle.

I think the best thing to do on this project is find a SC manufacture that wants to SC a 128i and you be the guinea pig.

[kc_skyrider]

I apologize for my bluntness but I think people here are smoking something. The amount of aftermarket for a N/A car that has a FI twin is limited at best. Just look at the lancer, subaru impreza, N/A Supras, Eclipse GS and every other car made in this fashion. Yes it can be done and it's no harder than taking any other N/A car and adding FI however it's a matter of cost. Whose going to spend thousands in R&D knowing that by the time it's done the cost difference between a used N52 and a used N54 is going to be 2-4 thousand. And after you add the 60hp to catch a 128i up to it's big brother all the N54 needs is a $500 piggy back to jump an additional 60HP. So to make a competitive 128i kit you have to start by adding 120hp for what $2,500. And reliabilty?, aren't you forgetting the largest difference between the N54 & N52 is the block itself. An N52 is made of alot of magnesium the reason BMW went through the effort of making an identical block out of pure aluminum although it weights more is because they did not feel the Magnesium block could last at N54 stock power levels.

Whoever says the N52 is a better or superior engine is more bias than I am. Just look at how many "Engine of the year" and similar awards were given to the N54. Yes the HPFP's have been a blemish on it's history, however the simple fact that BMW went so far out off it's beaten path and designed a motor that produces such amazing power with so much economy shows it was being progressive and when your in uncharted territory new problems can arise. We do all remember how long Vanos took to perfect! I have no problems replacing a HPFP or two if it means I own an engine people are reliably getting 50% more power than the already amazing stock levels on without major failures.

Accept what you have for why you purchased it. If you wanted a sports car you buy a 135i. If you want a sporty commuter you buy the 128i. If you decide to make your 128i like a 135i your going to pay more than the cost of a 135i. And yes a superchargers linear power curve is great, but nothing can be as addictive as the torque delivery from my twin turbos.

[Evice]

@kc_skyrider: I can see where you are coming from and I personally can say that I merely support these type of projects, not because it makes sense or gives better results but because it has entrepreneurship spirit. You learn great deals even if the results are not super preferable.

I personally would pay great dollars to a solution that will unleash the power of 130i or 330i that was achieved with the same N52B30 Engine, producing 272 HP. And that's purely because I love NAs. Although it may use magnesium alloy, it doesn't mean it is a paper engine. I am pretty sure it still can with hold alot more power.

After my car ages, I can even go further to bore my engine to get more power out of it, sticking with the basic rule... Let it stay naturally aspired.