DCT Buyer's Remorse

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by bdoooh

ScotchAndCigar... why can't you see that NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU.. Just admit that you're wrong and this thread can die.

I'd love to, but I don't understand what you're referring to. Wrong about what? I learned that many of you apparently heel-and-toe, and I don't. So what? Am I telling anyone to do it or not do it? You guys love to start with people.

Originally Posted by Aries932

there were multiple times that you stated nobody uses heel to toe downshifting and how it would make you "jerk" your neck.

I stated once that not many people heel-and-toe (probably true, but as of now just an opinion), but the neck-jerk comment had nothing to do with heel-and-toe.

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

There's nothing wrong with engine braking, but it really isn't necessary every time you come to a stop.

I never engine-brake to a stop, never said I did. I only talked about exit ramps.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

This post further belies your stubborn ignorance on this matter.

Thanks, that's sweet.

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

What you have been describing is using your clutch as a brake pad, using it to convert the kinetic energy of your rolling car into rotational energy of the engine.

No.

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

Engine braking is downshifting the engine with the deliberate purpose of increasing the RPMs.

Yes, that's exactly what I have been referring to.

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

No one here is suggesting "driving around at 4-5K RPMs so you're always ready to race".

I was referring to drivetrain wear, this has nothing to do with engine braking.

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

If you don't believe me, look it up on wikipedia. No mention of dropping the clutch. Or are they wrong too?

What the f- are you talking about? Wrong about what? And who's "dropping the clutch"? I'm just downshifting, for god's sakes. This is like the Spanish Inquisition, or the Salem Witch Trials. Why can't I just drive my car?

[Diver]

Maybe you guys should get a 370Z with it's rev matching manual transmission. That way any clod can do a perfect down shift.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by jainism

taste of your own medicine...deal with it

Are you ever planning to post something useful, or are you just gonna keep quoting Beavis & Butthead?

[Ash83]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I will row my own boat until I can no longer do so. Hell, my 62yr old mother and 58yr old pops still drive manual. I've said this many times on here but regardless of speed and the acronym of the week (SMG, PDK, DCT) - at the end of the day it is still an automatic transmission and I ain't interested. It's only within the last couple of years that those transmissions started actually outperforming manuals in some aspects but it is still so lame having that big, goofy brake pedal.

Shifting from P to D is the most emasculating act you can perform behind the wheel of a car.

SUPER LIKE

[IZAGLO]

This thread had turned in to a conversation that feels like i am listening to high school kids bicker....To make negative confrontational comments that be-little us DCT or Step drivers is offensive....Many of us "older" "middle aged" drivers this is the first cars with DCT or Step as shifting manuals for 30 years+ to some of you does not count as experience....now because of a transmission that is not 100% manual you folks are sounding like my BMW is a piece of shit and not worth driving....Where were you guy's when i was driving manual shifters on the column on my first car back in the day or when my 4 speed manual in my Z or my 5 speed in my Saab, or my countless manuals in my Honda Si's or my Subbie....Come on dudes...i can understand not liking DCT or Step...but we are not whimps....just the opposite ....some of us just wanted to try something different.....and after 3 million plus shifts in my lifetime driving manuals....i like the change for what it is..

[BimmerJim]

Originally Posted by IZAGLO

This thread had turned in to a conversation that feels like i am listening to high school kids bicker....To make negative confrontational comments that be-little us DCT or Step drivers is offensive....Many of us "older" "middle aged" drivers this is the first cars with DCT or Step as shifting manuals for 30 years+ to some of you does not count as experience....now because of a transmission that is not 100% manual you folks are sounding like my BMW is a piece of shit and not worth driving....Where were you guy's when i was driving manual shifters on the column on my first car back in the day or when my 4 speed manual in my Z or my 5 speed in my Saab, or my countless manuals in my Honda Si's or my Subbie....Come on dudes...i can understand not liking DCT or Step...but we are not whimps....just the opposite ....some of us just wanted to try something different.....and after 3 million plus shifts in my lifetime driving manuals....i like the change for what it is..

[bluejaypanther]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

I'm just downshifting, for god's sakes. This is like the Spanish Inquisition, or the Salem Witch Trials. Why can't I just drive my car?

Do whatever you want. Just don't expect the whole "I'm right and you're all wrong" stance to go over so well.

Correct downshifting technique, whether you use heel-toe or not, requires you to blip the throttle. What you are describing is effective at slowing the car (a combination of engine braking and burning the clutch), but also places inappropriate strain on the clutch, and will accelerate the need for an expensive repair in a completely unnecessarily fashion. Whether you do it slowly, as you describe, or not, it is still the case. And you seem committed to it. Good luck.

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

Just don't expect the whole "I'm right and you're all wrong" stance to go over so well.

Have I not been consistently saying for the past 20 posts or so, that I never had such a stance? I have nothing to be right or wrong about. I've simply been getting relentlessly attacked about downshifting.

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

Correct downshifting technique, whether you use heel-toe or not, requires you to blip the throttle.

Again - don't care.

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

What you are describing is effective at slowing the car (a combination of engine braking and burning the clutch), but also places inappropriate strain on the clutch, and will accelerate the need for an expensive repair in a completely unnecessarily fashion.

For the 20th time, I'm just releasing the clutch - not "slipping" it, not burning it, but just releasing the clutch to engage the gear.

Look at how many posts I've been repeating the same thing . I'll say it one more time: I am not recommending, advocating, or criticizing any method or means of driving or gearchanging. Please find a hobby, and let this thread rest.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

When one downshifts from 6th to 3rd, there is an extreme amount of engine-braking. If I were to let the clutch out quickly, the tires would try to break loose and my neck would snap forward.

What you're describing here sounds like using the clutch to slow the car or possibly riding the clutch for no reason. My best guess is that you're not really doing what you described, but if you are, it's crazy.

The only perfect approach is heel-toe. But if you don't want to do that, just leave it in 6th, brake, and don't touch the clutch or shifter until you've slowed the car and are ready to accelerate again. Then downshift to 3rd and go. That's the way most people do it. They should learn heel-toe, but their approach is okay.

[kgaler]

Originally Posted by IZAGLO

my first car back in the day or when my 4 speed manual in my Z or my 5 speed in my Saab, or my countless manuals in my Honda Si's or my Subbie

My first car was a 3 speed on the column, and I'm not that old. :-)

[eleven11]

/thread (please)

[ScotchAndCigar]

Originally Posted by jainism

People are attacking you because you have to get teh last word in like a little kid. If you are so grown up then just stop replying??!?!?!?!!?

I'm just answering questions addressed to me. What's your reason for posting?

[Walt White Coupe]

Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar

I'm just answering questions addressed to me. What's your reason for posting?

Please, please, please give it the f##k up!

[IZAGLO]

[QUOTE=kgaler;9419207]My first car was a 3 speed on the column, and I'm not that old.

[Impervious]

For god sakes how has this thread not been closed?

[IZAGLO]

[QUOTE=IZAGLO;9420111][QUOTE=kgaler;9419207]My first car was a 3 speed on the column, and I'm not that old.

COOL !!!

[Prof T]

This thread is: Plan 9 from Outer Space. Ed Wood would be proud.

The fire within us is burning here, which leads us to believe that we are better than we are, and it is red hot.

[Revelate]

Originally Posted by ParkNuts

1) Having to hold the brake at a stoplight. It behaves like an auto!! One of my least favorite attributes about an automatic transmission. I am used to relaxing at a light, and once it turns green put it in gear and go. This seems more tedious to me than manual in traffic.

2) Can't coast to a stop. In my previous car I would brake as much as needed, then coast to a pleasant stop. Now I can't avoid that last 'tug' intrinsic to all automatics. Also, when downshifting and applying brake, there is a release of pressure between the shifts and then the engine brake is reapplied once in gear again. Is this like SMG??

3) Can't rev the car, unless I want to carefully go through the process of moving over to auto, slightly pressing brake, going into neutral, rev, slightly press brake, go back into auto, then over into sport and shift to get back into manual. This also affets rev matching - but is taken care of automatically. Another SMG trait?

4) Slight lag between throttle application and acceleration from a stop.

While there are sacrifices, there are also benefits.

I didn't skim the replies on this thread so my thoughts might be redundant, but you are spot on regarding the negatives (and positives) of an SMG/DCT tranny.

I was a BMW SMG (not DCT) owner for 6 years prior to purchasing my '10 135. I went into the process with 100% certainty that I wanted a manual transmission again. I simply decided that I would prefer a manual for the 90% of the time when I want the control, instead of the 10% when I want the quickness. My gripes almost mirrored your list of negatives (though don't have to hold the brake on an SMG), all of which which generally come into play for "normal" driving conditions. Yet at the same time DCT a sensational feature for spirited driving and track use.

I should also point out that the MY'11 changes and inclusion of a DCT option were not announced until after I bought my car in November of '09. When I heard that DCT was an option on the '11, I was immediately torn on what I would've done had I been given the choice again. My sensible side says manual, my stop-light racer side says DCT. It's a hard decision, they both have their place.

[NFIDDY5]

YES! Interweb fight FTMFW!