2011 135 v 2015 GTI

[Taskmaster]

Hopefully the Porsche takeover reverses, and Porsche is the parent company!

[BMW_Matt]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

The badge could say Audi and I would still think it's trash. I think VW has some of the worst engineers out there, literally all their cars are Golf based garbage with the same cookie cutter design, same shit FWD, same trash reliability, same garbage 2.0t, same damn car. You can dress it up, put sticky tires on and it call it a RS4, and it's still a Golf to me.

Zero interest in the brand, cars and the so call owners who drive these poser-mobiles.

But it has a 4.2L V8.

Just saying.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

yep. massive problems. Stock is down 40%. CEO "resigned". 11 million cars now under investigation. this is no small scandal that's for sure...

Compared to the recent BP drilling rig blowout in the Gulf of Mexico?

This is a Walmart "trip and fall" accident in comparison to that . . . .

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by champignon

Compared to the recent BP drilling rig blowout in the Gulf of Mexico?

This is a Walmart "trip and fall" accident in comparison to that . . . .

different industry and an disconnected comparison really.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

different industry and an disconnected comparison really.

They are very much related, since the purported results of both are environmental pollution.

[OneM]

I wouldn't listen to the anti-VW guys. The Gti in real world driving (street) is just as fast as a 135i. "Zippy" would be the ideal word for it. The difference would become apparent only on track or high speed driving where the Beemer would be faster. The Golf R however, with a tune and a couple of bolt-on mods is probably the best dollar for dollar Euro performance car out there because of its traction. It's even capable of embarrassing a few supercars at the lights as well. That being said, fun factor would definitely go to the Beemer due to its RWD set-up.

In the states VW has a pretty bad name coz of its DSG gearbox recall amongst others. But that only affected lower end models.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by OneM

I wouldn't listen to the anti-VW guys. The Gti in real world driving (street) is just as fast as a 135i. "Zippy" would be the ideal word for it. The difference would become apparent only on track or high speed driving where the Beemer would be faster. The Golf R however, with a tune and a couple of bolt-on mods is probably the best dollar for dollar Euro performance car out there because of its traction. It's even capable of embarrassing a few supercars at the lights as well. That being said, fun factor would definitely go to the Beemer due to its RWD set-up.

In the states VW has a pretty bad name coz of its DSG gearbox recall amongst others. But that only affected lower end models.

Agreed. I'd even go so far as to mention that many of the reviewers I respect the most (the Evo crew first and foremost) have the Golf R down as one of the best driver's cars currently on sale, regardless of price, and they regularly put it ahead of anything BMW makes in that segment, M135i included.

It's just a shame that some people allow blind hatred to deprive them the opportunity to drive some very cool cars. This at least makes it easy to separate the worst of the BMW community from the true car enthusiasts.

[tock172]

I've been trying to bite my tongue and watch this argument unfold, but as much as I hate to say it, I agree with TheAxiom that most VAG products are overpriced, parts bin trash.

Does anyone remember the whole perceived quality thing and the MK4 Jetta? VW essentially admitted to designing cars to look and feel like high quality products, but the underlying build quality, materials and design are all admittedly substandard. Yes, the doors on most VWs make a nice 'thunk' when you close them, but the headliner probably won't last more than a decade and the timing belt/water pump job is way more involved than other comparable economy cars.

My opinion is sour because I owned a gorgeous one-owner 2005 S4 (6MT, carbon fiber interior). Unfortunately, the engine had scoring in every single cylinder wall. Audi of America foot the bill for a new V8.

Has anyone here tried to wrench or do any kind of maintenance on a modern VW or Audi? Most of the parts and components are designed to be disassembled only a few times before the entire system (and car, for that matter) should be replaced.

I know modern BMWs don't fair well beyond their lease period or factory warranty, but VW is another level of overcomplicated, unnecessary engineering.

I can honestly say besides a Porsche, which still maintains quite a bit of autonomy under VW, I have absolutely zero desire to own anything VW, Audi or Bentley. They are overpriced cars with substandard engineering. VW might be fooling some of you with their nice interiors and the performance numbers of the GTI and Golf R, but if you look into the actual design of the platforms and engines, compare pricing and try to imagine how the car will be in 5-10 years, I can't figure out why any true car enthusiast would own one. There, I said it.

And I don't care how good the torque vectoring diff makes FWD feel in the GTI. It's still a FWD, nose heavy car.

[davis449]

I've been trying to bite my tongue and watch this argument unfold, but as much as I hate to say it, I agree with TheAxiom that most VAG products are overpriced, parts bin trash.

Does anyone remember the whole perceived quality thing and the MK4 Jetta? VW essentially admitted to designing cars to look and feel like high quality products, but the underlying build quality, materials and design are all admittedly substandard. Yes, the doors on most VWs make a nice 'thunk' when you close them, but the headliner probably won't last more than a decade and the timing belt/water pump job is way more involved than other comparable economy cars.

My opinion is sour because I owned a gorgeous one-owner 2005 S4 (6MT, carbon fiber interior). Unfortunately, the engine had scoring in every single cylinder wall. Audi of America foot the bill for a new V8.

Seems yours and TheAxiom's opinions are formed from owning the older POS VW's\Audi's (that I will fully acknowledge sucked). Both of mine were modded to hell and back (2006 A4 and 2011 A3) and I had only one major issue with the second one I owned. Both of them saw two back and forth trips to Vegas (3000+ miles round trip) in the hottest of hot conditions plus commuting miles. The issue I had with my 2011? DSG software...wow, what a POS because BMW's never...oh, wait my 2012 135i had to be brought in for a software update to its DCT to address a similar issue with it.

VW's\Audi's have come a LONG way since 2005...seriously.

Has anyone here tried to wrench or do any kind of maintenance on a modern VW or Audi? Most of the parts and components are designed to be disassembled only a few times before the entire system (and car, for that matter) should be replaced.

Yes, actually, and the post 2005.5 ones are no more or less complicated than anything BMW I've seen nor of lesser quality.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by davis449

Seems yours and TheAxiom's opinions are formed from owning the older POS VW's\Audi's (that I will fully acknowledge sucked). Both of mine were modded to hell and back (2006 A4 and 2011 A3) and I had only one major issue with the second one I owned. Both of them saw two back and forth trips to Vegas (3000+ miles round trip) in the hottest of hot conditions plus commuting miles. The issue I had with my 2011? DSG software...wow, what a POS because BMW's never...oh, wait my 2012 135i had to be brought in for a software update to its DCT to address a similar issue with it.

VW's\Audi's have come a LONG way since 2005...seriously.



Yes, actually, and the post 2005.5 ones are no more or less complicated than anything BMW I've seen nor of lesser quality.

Dual clutch transmissions are excellent, but there is a reason why everyone is going to the ZF 8 speed torque converter automatic.

I have to disagree with your 2005.5 statement. I've spent time plenty of time around newer VWs and the underlying platform and internals are still overly complicated and lacking in longevity.

Literally the only thing that ever made a VW attractive to me was the 0% financing, but even then, I'd rather pay a bit more and have something I actually feel is a sound, well designed machine. And before you crucify me, it should be known that I've owned 6 BMWs in my lifetime and my 1 series is without a doubt the cheapest and lowest quality of any of them. The interior materials are deplorable in comparison to my old E46 330i. I love the car, but it's probably my last BMW for a long time.

[lowbudgethero]

Originally Posted by OneM

I wouldn't listen to the anti-VW guys. The Gti in real world driving (street) is just as fast as a 135i. "Zippy" would be the ideal word for it. The difference would become apparent only on track or high speed driving where the Beemer would be faster. The Golf R however, with a tune and a couple of bolt-on mods is probably the best dollar for dollar Euro performance car out there because of its traction. It's even capable of embarrassing a few supercars at the lights as well. That being said, fun factor would definitely go to the Beemer due to its RWD set-up.

In the states VW has a pretty bad name coz of its DSG gearbox recall amongst others. But that only affected lower end models.

I would consider a golf R if I was limited to only the current batch of new cars, but I'd take my 135i and pocket the extra money over a golf R any day.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

My daughter has an MK4 Jetta. Bought it used in 2010. Has a little more than 125K miles on it. Regular maintenance and basic repairs. Nothing out of the ordinary. She drives that car hard and it runs like a top. She's happy with it.

My experience is the exact opposite. Two people I work with had MK4 Jettas with the 2.0L 8 valve engine. Both of them needed new cats shortly after 100k. One of them needed a new engine after it's second timing belt failed well within it's service interval. The other one also experienced a timing mechanism failure while on it's 2nd belt which was still well within it's service interval, but thankfully his engine was spared. Headliners failed on both, along wither various interior parts (arm rest, window switch panel, cupholder, etc). Both of these guys spent pretty decent money on nice examples that were well maintained, and both maintained the cars very well with trusted local independent mechanics. They also only got around 21-22 MPG which is pretty inefficient for a car of that size.

[Gray_Panther]

I have a MKIV GTi 1.8T with 5MT and 144K miles and it is superb! The interior is in great shape and has aged very very well. Helps that I keep it looking new.

Strong, reliable and efficient!

TheAxiom if you talk smack about my GTi, we won't bro it out anymore.

[Taskmaster]

I think it's sad that VW thought it was acceptable to sell a 8valve 110hp motor in a 3000lb car.

You guys are raving over a FWD car with a dual clutch box and soft touch plastics, and I (and now someone else) have pointed out that the brand is, and always has been style over substance.

Substandard engines, transmissions, suspension, electronics, poor layout for maintenance, etc.

It took BMW 1 generation to get DI right. VW probably still doesn't have that shit under control ( FSI, TFSI carbon build up) still was making brand new motors with timing BELTS, and you think your BMW leaks oil? Good luck, as these cars make the BP oil spill look like childs play, and the BP spill is easier to fix too.

The Golf and every other VW I believe have a undefeatedable Traction control system in case you want to have fun, oh and they almost never have a showing at any SCCA even either.

Sporty cars my ass. They are low rent, poorly engineered shit cars for people who want the cache of owning a German car, but can't afford a good one.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Gray_Panther

I have a MKIV GTi 1.8T with 5MT and 144K miles and it is superb! The interior is in great shape and has aged very very well. Helps that I keep it looking new.

Strong, reliable and efficient!

TheAxiom if you talk smack about my GTi, we won't bro it out anymore.

I love you bro, you know that. But I need you to give up this lifestyle...pick up something less destructive and more productive like alcoholism.

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I love you bro, you know that. But I need you to give up this lifestyle...pick up something less destructive and more productive like alcoholism.

Na forget that mang. Just take your car for a spirited drive for a long time. It'll get the positive juices flowing!

[davis449]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I think it's sad that VW thought it was acceptable to sell a 8valve 110hp motor in a 3000lb car.

You keep attacking the old ones as proof the new ones suck. More evidence that you're just a brand loyal, fanboi idiot.

You guys are raving over a FWD car with a dual clutch box and soft touch plastics, and I (and now someone else) have pointed out that the brand is, and always has been style over substance.

Because, for a FWD car, it's DAMN good. You just can't\won't accept that. That's fine.

Substandard engines, transmissions, suspension, electronics, poor layout for maintenance, etc.

2.0T was a winner of Ward's 10 Best Engines as well a universally praised. The DSG is a solid trans. It had one sensor issue that was solved in subsequent production. It had software issues like EVERY OTHER DAMN DUAL CLUTCH, INCLUDING BMW. God, you're just a plain, blind idiot. There are BMW's with shitty electronics and poorly laid out for maint. engines, too.

It took BMW 1 generation to get DI right. VW probably still doesn't have that shit under control ( FSI, TFSI carbon build up) still was making brand new motors with timing BELTS, and you think your BMW leaks oil?

This is is just flat out wrong since BMW's FI engines also have severe carbon build up issues. Otherwise, why all the threads about walnut blasting? Hmmm...I wonder. The only one who did DI right the first time was Lexus with a hybrid port/DI engine (the 3.5L in the IS 350 for ex.). Also, my 2011 2.0T had a timing chain. Again, you're a moron.

Sporty cars my ass. They are low rent, poorly engineered shit cars for people who want the cache of owning a German car, but can't afford a good one.

So what would you call the new 1 series? Just curious? Is that a "sporty" car representing the "Ultimate Driving Machine"? Making you look stupid is so easy. Keep it up.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by davis449

You keep attacking the old ones as proof the new ones suck. More evidence that you're just a brand loyal, fanboi idiot.

Because, for a FWD car, it's DAMN good. You just can't\won't accept that. That's fine.

2.0T was a winner of Ward's 10 Best Engines as well a universally praised. The DSG is a solid trans. It had one sensor issue that was solved in subsequent production. It had software issues like EVERY OTHER DAMN DUAL CLUTCH, INCLUDING BMW. God, you're just a plain, blind idiot. There are BMW's with shitty electronics and poorly laid out for maint. engines, too.

This is is just flat out wrong since BMW's FI engines also have severe carbon build up issues. Otherwise, why all the threads about walnut blasting? Hmmm...I wonder. The only one who did DI right the first time was Lexus with a hybrid port/DI engine (the 3.5L in the IS 350 for ex.). Also, my 2011 2.0T had a timing chain. Again, you're a moron.

So what would you call the new 1 series? Just curious? Is that a "sporty" car representing the "Ultimate Driving Machine"? Making you look stupid is so easy. Keep it up.

A couple of things. I'm not dumb for thinking you overpaid for a dressed up Golf/Passat with an Audi badge. It literally does nothing better than it's Japanese counterparts and has never been the benchmark of the class. it's powered by an anemic 2.0t that laggs it's class by every metric, save the metric of being trash.

Next I want to correct you in pointing out that the N55 is the predecessor of the N54, and they don't have a Carbon Build up issue, and that was fixed within the same generation of car (E90) it took VW 3 (or more) Golf generations to do the same thing on a higher volume motor. This subpar engineering bleeds into everything they do, including the the latest fiasco with their desiels, V8 that was shit, the 2.7 that were shit, the 2.0Ts that are shit, the FWD based AWD systems that are shit, shit dependability, shit upkeep cost and judging my your attitude, shitty owners. Nothing appeals to me about the brand...they make one car (Golf R) that isn't a a complete flaming pile of shit, and we should give them a free pass?

[Taskmaster]

I'm not even a huge BMW fan, I just hate VW/Audi.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I'm not even a huge BMW fan, I just hate VW/Audi.

Don't hate

[davis449]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

A couple of things. I'm not dumb for thinking you overpaid for a dressed up Golf/Passat with an Audi badge. It literally does nothing better than it's Japanese counterparts and has never been the benchmark of the class. it's powered by an anemic 2.0t that laggs it's class by every metric, save the metric of being trash.

Yes, you are dumb for thinking that, but it's ok...you've already done a damn good job in this thread of proving you aren't very smart and don't know what you're talking about when you talk trash about VW\Audi.

Next I want to correct you in pointing out that the N55 is the predecessor of the N54, and they don't have a Carbon Build up issue, and that was fixed within the same generation of car (E90) it took VW 3 (or more) Golf generations to do the same thing on a higher volume motor

You're not correcting me on a damn thing. I said nowhere that the N55 was the predecessor to the N54. If you inferred that, it's your own poor reading comprehension to blame there. I was, in fact, talking about the N55. It has carbon buildup issues and, therefore, the issue hasn't been addressed by BMW now has it? Yeah, so now we've established you don't even know what you're talking about when it comes to BMW either. You really should stop posting...unless you just enjoy getting beat down post after post and looking increasingly dumber.

This subpar engineering bleeds into everything they do, including the the latest fiasco with their desiels, V8 that was shit, the 2.7 that were shit, the 2.0Ts that are shit, the FWD based AWD systems that are shit, shit dependability, shit upkeep cost and judging my your attitude, shitty owners. Nothing appeals to me about the brand...they make one car (Golf R) that isn't a a complete flaming pile of shit, and we should give them a free pass?

LOL! There was nothing "engineering" that went wrong in regards to the diesel scandal...they engineered a baddass diesel that got great fuel mileage but emitted shit loads of carbon. They gamed the system to get around it and got caught. That's not an engineering problem...that's just straight up cheating and getting caught. The 2.7T was a POS, but again that's you bringing up older models to justify why you think the new ones are crap. The 2.0T's accolades have already been covered by me so I am not going to bother with that again. The AWD systems from Audi are rated close to, if not THE best in the world. They've been PROVEN to be on top of that (Quattro Pikes Peak), so this is all just your opinion here, which as we've seen means nothing. I like how you called me a "shitty owner" because I keep blowing up your arguments and you get all mad.

[Taskmaster]

the N55 doesn't have Carbon issues, a local mechanic cracked on open and it was fine.

VW desiels aren't badass. They are obviously trash, considering VW had to cheat just to bring them to the market.

I don't care how many awards the 2.0 has one, I would never put one in my car. Not to mention there is nothing remarkable about the motor save for how VW shoehorned a shit engine in a POS.