Well Im Officially a Lemon

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

This doesnt answer my questions about Lemon Law fully. I will trust my lawyer for now, but the car has out for a total of over 30 callendar days due two different issues. As in the top and the dashboard combined equate to over 30 days of warrenty repair.

The 30 rule is applied in some states. But, I thought that had to be within the first year of ownership? So, if you got your 1 in 9/08 and by 9/09 it had been in the shop for 30 days, then it could qualify.

Laws are different state to state though, as are the time frames and number of repairs.

You problems do sound unique. It's almost as if you got a car that was damaged during transport and was then "fixed" before being released to the dealer. I've seen some really bad damage on cars arriving at the port, and they just send them to shop and get the damage fixed and painted and off it goes to be sold as new. Seems it is still considered new as it was corrected before being released for purchase.
I wonder if you or your lawyer can push BMW to disclose if you car was damaged during transport and was fixed/repaired at port?
If it was, you'd have a very solid case for not just your money back, but even more compensation,

[Add1ct]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The 30 rule is applied in some states. But, I thought that had to be within the first year of ownership? So, if you got your 1 in 9/08 and by 9/09 it had been in the shop for 30 days, then it could qualify.

Laws are different state to state though, as are the time frames and number of repairs.

You problems do sound unique. It's almost as if you got a car that was damaged during transport and was then "fixed" before being released to the dealer. I've seen some really bad damage on cars arriving at the port, and they just send them to shop and get the damage fixed and painted and off it goes to be sold as new. Seems it is still considered new as it was corrected before being released for purchase.
I wonder if you or your lawyer can push BMW to disclose if you car was damaged during transport and was fixed/repaired at port?
If it was, you'd have a very solid case for not just your money back, but even more compensation,

that's very true, BMW v. Gore, USSC case, comes to mind

[tcd223]

Originally Posted by RPM90

It's almost as if you got a car that was damaged during transport and was then "fixed" before being released to the dealer. I've seen some really bad damage on cars arriving at the port, and they just send them to shop and get the damage fixed and painted and off it goes to be sold as new. Seems it is still considered new as it was corrected before being released for purchase.
I wonder if you or your lawyer can push BMW to disclose if you car was damaged during transport and was fixed/repaired at port?
If it was, you'd have a very solid case for not just your money back, but even more compensation,

Remembered seeing this linked on Edmunds Inside Line.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/o...d-in-shipping/

[BrokenVert]

RPM90 this same situation happened to my dad and his Mountaineer. We found out a year after the car was purchased that it had some trim knocked off of it during shipping. Hello 20K off next purchase/.

[bimmerboy]

performance package?? demand a new M3, sell it, buy a freakin 135 and have money left over to pay for mods

[Angry3]

Originally Posted by singular

Laws very from state to state on lemons. Here's a link to an FAQ on the NY lemon law.

http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/NY_LemonGuide.html

A couple of things it mentions:

There is a concept of "lawful deduction" that can reduce the refund you get from the manufacturer. The amount withheld is cost of car * mileage above 12,000 divided by 100,000. A high mileage 1er could have a relatively large deduction. For example, 22,000 miles on a $45K car could mean a refund reduced by about $4,500.

Appellate courts have ruled that a comparable replacement vehicle doesn't constitute a new one. Looks like you can expect to be offered an equivalent model in the same year as the lemon, ie. a 2008 135 'vert.

Lawyers don't work for free. Make sure you understand the full cost of using one. Looks like NY provides an arbitration avenue if you decide not to go the lawyer route.

Interesting read, if that site is an accurate representation of the NY Lemon Law, which may or may not be the case. If so, the comparable vehicle thing is meaningless as you would never consider that option. The purpose of the LL is to get you your money back to get a new version of the car you have (or a different one). A big concern for me is there's no mention in that fact that the NY LL statute provides for attorney fees (as many states LL statutes do). So if you hire an attorney you're going to be bearing the risk of your claim failing.

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

This doesnt answer my questions about Lemon Law fully. I will trust my lawyer for now, but the car has out for a total of over 30 callendar days due two different issues. As in the top and the dashboard combined equate to over 30 days of warrenty repair.

I'd trust your lawyer, if he thinks it qualifies it arguably does.

Originally Posted by BMW86

I doubt they will let you keep your car. They are more likely to take your car and give you a new one so they can repair it and put it back up for sale or use it as a demo etc.

The car will end up being sold with a branded title at a substantial discount off its market value.

Originally Posted by RPM90

The 30 rule is applied in some states. But, I thought that had to be within the first year of ownership? So, if you got your 1 in 9/08 and by 9/09 it had been in the shop for 30 days, then it could qualify.

Laws are different state to state though, as are the time frames and number of repairs.

You problems do sound unique. It's almost as if you got a car that was damaged during transport and was then "fixed" before being released to the dealer. I've seen some really bad damage on cars arriving at the port, and they just send them to shop and get the damage fixed and painted and off it goes to be sold as new. Seems it is still considered new as it was corrected before being released for purchase.
I wonder if you or your lawyer can push BMW to disclose if you car was damaged during transport and was fixed/repaired at port?
If it was, you'd have a very solid case for not just your money back, but even more compensation,

Lots of speculation on this, most states require disclosure of transit damage at the time of sale if it's significant. Odds are the car just ended up having bad assembly related problems with the top and dash. It happens.

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

So I talked with a lawyer today and apparently my vert qualifies a lemon.

Let me list my non-accident related failures:
Sept 08 - Car dragged a pad post breakin. Car offroad 2 days.
Nov - Dashboard fell apart. Car offroad a week.
April - Complete mechanical failure of the top. All bushings, cables, and motors replaced. Car offroad 3 weeks.
June - Suspected HPFP failure after engine cranked and failed to start. Code was thrown but all tests came back negative on HPFP. Code cleared (no replacement) and car offroad 3 days.
July - Third tailight falls out. Car offroad 2 days waiting on part.
Sept 09 - Dashboard falls apart a second time. Car sent in 4 days ago...still in shop.


Im just not sure what to do. This damned color has me under its spell. I plan on getting some type of monetary compensation from BMW but im not sure if I will replace the car, or just keep it and hope they give it to me for free.


Guess im still living up to my name...ugh

Temper your expectations, if your car qualifies the will give you your money back less some allowance for use. Given the accidents and everything your car has been through that would be a great result.

Originally Posted by HPFREAK

Ok you ar ein the perfect position to force BMW to give you an upgrade. Ask them for an M3. My friend had a bunch of issues with his 08 vette and lemoned it. My other friend told him to ask for a ZO6 and he didnt think they would, but they did. They discounted a ZO6 from 72k down to 55k and his lemon vette wasz 52k. This is the time to demand something from them. If my car ends up this way you can bet my lawyer will be told to get BMW to upgrade me for my troubles. However if they will replace with another 1er for free or refund you all the payments you have made on the car so far then that would be good to. Curious to see how this plays out for you.

Your buddy got a Z06 for 55K because that's what the car was worth. They've been selling at $10-15K discounts from sticker for many months. The LL in and of itself doesn't give any rights to an "upgrade."

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

If I do end up replacing it with a 135i coupe I will no doubt be asking for a full BMW performance package.

If your car qualifies as a lemon and its value less the use deduction will pay for a new coupe with the performance package you can have it

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Im honestly not sure if I can resist the allure of a new car. Its literally a free 22K miles and I wont need to worry about expensive out of warrenty repairs (like the top, which I think is going to fail again soon because it start clicking again like it did in March) and hey, I might get a chance to do ED afterall.

But to all you saying get an M3. I DONT LIKE THE CURRENT 3 SERIES. I hope thats all cleared up.


If the car gets replaced it will be with an LMB coupe w either BMW perf or Dinan parts to make up the price difference...hopefully.

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

From what I've read so far, your lawyer is the only one who has declared the car a lemon. What you need is for BMW to declare it because, according to what I've read, the car must be in for the same issue 3 times and I'm not sure the light is enough to qualify. I think you'd need the HPFP to fail 3 times to really qualify as there is really no solution and it's a pretty major problem.

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

I believe its 3 times for the same issue OR 30 days or more off the road. Not sure what time frame the 30 days needs to occur in, maybe a calendar year? But I'm guessing.

Again, the LL criteria are

1. Different in every single state
2. Very, very specific

Any speculation about the OP's situation is valueless unless you've been through lemoning a car in NY or practice law there.

OP, you're on the right track getting a legal opinion on this. First step is a demand letter to BMWNA. Once they respond and make an offer (or don't) your next stop is arbitration. Unlike someone else here said arbitration is mandatory, not optional. It's right in the terms of your BMW new limited warranty.

Hopefully things will work out ok. I can see there being some complications due to the fact that the car was wrecked. As I mentioned, if the car qualifies and BMW offers to buy it back don't hesitate unless you plan to keep it forever. With your car's accident and repair history you're going to lose your ass on it when you go to sell it.

Best of luck to you. Unfortunately these cases are rarely solved without a fight. Hopefully when things are all said in done your car will really officially be found a lemon and you can change your name to "FixedCoupe"

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Angry3

Lots of speculation on this, most states require disclosure of transit damage at the time of sale if it's significant. Odds are the car just ended up having bad assembly related problems with the top and dash. It happens.

Yes, that is what is "supposed" to happen, but that's not what always does happen.

Yes, it is speculation, as I/we do not know if this happened at all.
But, it's something worth looking into.

[NJ135]

Originally Posted by Add1ct

at least go test drive the 335d, you will be amazed

drove one at work once.. didnt like it too much.. if you live outside of the u.s. its worth it.. but we dont so

[Add1ct]

Originally Posted by NJ135

drove one at work once.. didnt like it too much.. if you live outside of the u.s. its worth it.. but we dont so

unless like here where diesel is .50 cheaper a gallon than premium

[NJ135]

i think in jersey its still more.. i havnt really checked but i think the last time i saw it it was getting closer to the price of premium... not sure tho.. but idno off the line i thought it would be faster because of all the torque.. i didnt drive it on the highway just from one lot to the other but yea off the line it wuznt feelin that quick

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by Add1ct

unless like here where diesel is .50 cheaper a gallon than premium

Diesel is around the same price as regular 87 octane around here. Comparing 335d to 335i, it works out in favor of diesel unless you lease or trade in every 3 years. (It probably isn't a winner based purely on the number if you compare 328i to 335d, unless you particularly value not using more gasoline. But, hey, all that torque is worth something, too.)

[AchtungF80]

Originally Posted by NJ135

i think in jersey its still more.. i havnt really checked but i think the last time i saw it it was getting closer to the price of premium... not sure tho.. but idno off the line i thought it would be faster because of all the torque.. i didnt drive it on the highway just from one lot to the other but yea off the line it wuznt feelin that quick

Haha, you can't judge that car driving from lot to lot!! I test drove an X5 xdrive35D and it moved real nice! Rather get that than a 4.8is. Holy OT...

Stick to your guns Matt! No 3er for you unless E46

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by achtungE30

Haha, you can't judge that car driving from lot to lot!! I test drove an X5 xdrive35D and it moved real nice! Rather get that than a 4.8is. Holy OT...

Stick to your guns Matt! No 3er for you unless E46

Although I am still watching for a 91 318is for a fun little AutoX car. haha thats the only 3 I see myself buying anytime soon.

[BMWNA]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

So I talked with a lawyer today and apparently my vert qualifies a lemon.

Let me list my non-accident related failures:
Sept 08 - Car dragged a pad post breakin. Car offroad 2 days.
Nov - Dashboard fell apart. Car offroad a week.
April - Complete mechanical failure of the top. All bushings, cables, and motors replaced. Car offroad 3 weeks.
June - Suspected HPFP failure after engine cranked and failed to start. Code was thrown but all tests came back negative on HPFP. Code cleared (no replacement) and car offroad 3 days.
July - Third tailight falls out. Car offroad 2 days waiting on part.
Sept 09 - Dashboard falls apart a second time. Car sent in 4 days ago...still in shop.


Im just not sure what to do. This damned color has me under its spell. I plan on getting some type of monetary compensation from BMW but im not sure if I will replace the car, or just keep it and hope they give it to me for free.


Guess im still living up to my name...ugh

I am with BMW of North America, LLC. I've passed this message on to a BMW NA Customer Relations Representative who will be in touch with you soon.

[bmwsam]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Although I am still watching for a 91 318is for a fun little AutoX car. haha thats the only 3 I see myself buying anytime soon.

Great choice for keeping a look out for a 91 318is! I own a red one and couldn't be happier with it.

[BrokenVert]

Just got a call from BMW NA. Im really enjoying the prompt customer service.

[oneintheory]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Just got a call from BMW NA. Im really enjoying the prompt customer service.

that makes one of us.

[HPFREAK]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Just got a call from BMW NA. Im really enjoying the prompt customer service.

Well I hope things work out for I know i would be very upset if that much went wrong with my 1er. If i start getting HPFP issues I am going to make them take it back as well. These things should not be this hard for BMW to figure out. I mean with a Slogan like " The Ultimate Driving Machine" they better. Not much of a driving machine if you cant drive because it is in the shop half the time.lol

[BlackjackMulligan]

They'll probably say "we'll waive your next monthly payment" and hope you'll bite to avoid lemoning the car

[oasis3582]

Funny how the BMW rep responds to this thread, but fails to address any of the FOUR open HPFP threads just on the 1st page alone.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by oasis3582

Funny how the BMW rep responds to this thread, but fails to address any of the FOUR open HPFP threads just on the 1st page alone.

I wouldnt call it irony. Ive had very unique issues with my 135i. I have yet to hear of anybody else having to get their top replaced because the mechanicals failed.

The HPFP is fairly common issue and im sure that BMW NA is getting tired of hearing about it. Just as im tired of complaining to them about it.

[Add1ct]

what about the trunk mounted taillight, I'm on my third already!!!