[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by JamieA

Only the 6cyl E90s have it - you need DSC Plus. All 4 cyl models have standard DSC so don't get hill take off control, wet brake wiping and soft stop. I thought this was global... do you get the 4cyl models in South Africa, or the sixes only?

Typo way back in August

All 6 Cylinder E90's have it.

We do have 4 Cyl models here

[danatk]

Originally Posted by falcitron

2. My dealership originally claimed that it was a tranny software issue and that (back in July), they were going to issue a software fix in 30 days to correct the problem.
3. After waiting 90+ days, the dealership said that BMW determined the issue to be a "normal function of the vehicle" and that no update or repair will be made.

this might mean that BMW found out about the problem, started preparing a fix but found that it was more complicated than they thought, maybe even not possible with software alone

now they say that it is normal, until they work out what to do about it!

[surlung]

I don't feel the soft-stop feature AT-ALL with my US spec 325 with manual.... is this a feature only for automatic?

[nimo]

I got the CIP 18.1 update awhile back and it did reduce most of the lurching. I do however still feel the lurching once in a while.
Here is a link to an older post:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1484#post31484

I think the update cuts back the tranny torque lockup with the drive train so there is less load on the brakes when idling or coming to a stop. However, I could be wrong.

[falcitron]

I agree...I just think they don't want to admit a problem until they're figured out how to fix it.

At the current time, I'm pursuing buyback options with my dealer. If not all the cars do it, then I want one that doesn't....especially if they're telling me it's a "normal function."

[john4.4x5]

Originally Posted by surlung

I don't feel the soft-stop feature AT-ALL with my US spec 325 with manual.... is this a feature only for automatic?

Same here. Although I drive a 330i Step, no issues. The brakes have no issues when coming to a stop. Took me the break-in period to get used to the new functions though, or did the new functions adapt to me. I do wonder if they are adaptive, probably not, BMW would have used it as a markeitng item.

Just my 2 cents.

[falcitron]

Actually, one of the first things they did was reset that adaptive memory, in case something got screwed up there. It did nothing, of course....

[onesixeight]

Originally Posted by falcitron

I agree...I just think they don't want to admit a problem until they're figured out how to fix it.

At the current time, I'm pursuing buyback options with my dealer. If not all the cars do it, then I want one that doesn't....especially if they're telling me it's a "normal function."

Hi falcitron,

BMW will not admit there is a problem, even with the FSR official from BMWNA. As crazy as it sounds, he wouldn't even acknowledge that this is a problem and simply wrote "normal function" and told me its just something I'm gonna have to get used to. Since there isn't any fix, I decided to just live with it until I met with the Sales Manager yesterday when discussing my end-of-lease options on my 745 and purchase of a new E60 M5. I told him I'm not considering another BMW product unless they fix this problem. Its just appaling that BMW would just brush this problem aside as if it's nothing.

At the end of our conversation, he said he would contact the regional marketing representative and see if they would buy the car back. If so, I'm taking my money and shopping elsewhere. This car along with my 745Li has been nothing but problems. Sure, they're great driving cars when they work, but that doesn't happen too often.

-Chris

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by onesixeight

Hi falcitron,

BMW will not admit there is a problem, even with the FSR official from BMWNA. As crazy as it sounds, he wouldn't even acknowledge that this is a problem and simply wrote "normal function" and told me its just something I'm gonna have to get used to. Since there isn't any fix, I decided to just live with it until I met with the Sales Manager yesterday when discussing my end-of-lease options on my 745 and purchase of a new E60 M5. I told him I'm not considering another BMW product unless they fix this problem. Its just appaling that BMW would just brush this problem aside as if it's nothing.

At the end of our conversation, he said he would contact the regional marketing representative and see if they would buy the car back. If so, I'm taking my money and shopping elsewhere. This car along with my 745Li has been nothing but problems. Sure, they're great driving cars when they work, but that doesn't happen too often.

-Chris

And the alternative is? To officially admit there's a problem and buyback every E90 that sold with an A/T. Then, on top of that, participate in some class action lawsuit that a calif lawyer trumps up?


I think it's safe to say BMWNA knows about the problem, but since they can't find a fix, they don't want to open themselves up to a lawsuit by "officially" admiting there's an issue.

I'll bet ya $5 in 6-12 months they're going to quietly "turn off" the soft stop on all E90's sold with A/T's.

[StevenT]

Originally Posted by Socom

And the alternative is? To officially admit there's a problem and buyback every E90 that sold with an A/T. Then, on top of that, participate in some class action lawsuit that a calif lawyer trumps up?


I think it's safe to say BMWNA knows about the problem, but since they can't find a fix, they don't want to open themselves up to a lawsuit by "officially" admiting there's an issue.

I'll bet ya $5 in 6-12 months they're going to quietly "turn off" the soft stop on all E90's sold with A/T's.

There is always a way to fix a problem. More likely, they haven't found a way to cheaply fix the problem (i.e., by a software update).
BMWNA (or more precisely their bean counters/risk analysts) must consider this problem to either not be a significant enough of a safety issue, or alternatively, a potential safety issue that will yield only a limited number of accidents. Thus, cheaper to not fix the problem and deal with a limited number of accidents later than to fix potentially thousands of cars.

Now I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping my 330xi that is supposed to arrive in a few weeks will not have this problem (or electrical problem, or rattle/ticking problems). With everything I've been reading the past couple of months, I'm beginning to question my decision to buy a Bimmer. I know and accept that there is an increased chance of experiencing some problems in a first-year production car, although I believe all car manufacturers should (but many don't) more thoroughly test their vehicle before releasing it. However, I'm amazed at the number of posts I've read in various forums where people simply accept the fact that you should expect that there will be more problems because it's a BMW and that's the tradeoff for owning the "ultimate driving machine". If a lot of my customers believed that, I wouldn't try to fix any problems either. Maybe I would believe that if I was buying a $15k Kia, but for what is supposedly promoted as a luxery sport sedan with an average price close to $40k (averaging the typical price of the 325 and 330), there is no excuse.

On a side note, during my new car research, I've noticed that, in general, the European car manufacturers (Americans also) have a consistent history of producing more problematic/less reliable cars than the Asian manufacturers. Why is that?

If one manufacturer can do it, why can't the others? This especially applies when comparing vehicles having a similar cost/price point. Considering modern manufacturing techniques, do you think there is a significant enough of a difference in the cost to produce a 3 series compared to the cost to produce, for example, a Lexus IS in order to justify producing less reliable vehicles? (Please no arguments over which of these cars is better, I'm sure both are excellent cars which, and more importantly, sell at roughly similar prices and are marketed to the same demographic.) I refuse to believe that one manufacturer has smarter engineers than the other.

If not an issue of cost, is it simply an issue of "not caring" by the manufacturers?

[jrct9454]

It's a cultural issue. The Japanese have always had close relationships with their suppliers, and a bias toward quick intervention when problems come up with production parts and subassemblies. They are fanatic about electronics being as fail-safe as possible, and stay in the pockets [and factories] of their suppliers; most importantly, they work TOGETHER to solve supplier problems, lending their own engineers as necessary.

The Germans, by contrast, have always bought from the same roster of suspects [Siemens, Bosch, etc.] who are allowed to go off on their own to meet a supply contract, and when something goes wrong, the fingers get pointed quickly, but no one ever seems to learn anything from the experience. The recent diesel fuel injection fiasco in the German industry [the same failed component being used by every major German manufacturer] is a prime example; there are too many others to list.

Porsche did the unthinkable in the '90s and hired Japanese consultants to tell them what they could do to increase their efficiency - a lot of eyes got opened at the expense of Germanic pride, but there wasn't a lot of emphasis on how the Japanese approach quality control at the same time. It's been about cost-cutting without much regard for the effects on quality.

The Japanese never take their eyes off the ball; when screwups occur, as they inevitably do, they react more quickly and more cooperatively with their suppliers to solve a problem. I see nothing in the corporate cultures of the German Big 3 [MB, BMW, VW/Audi] to suggest they understand what needs to change. Same old, same old....

In the case of BMW, this problem is made worse by the perception, both in the business and in the press, that they don't need to do anything to change. They are so often held up as a raging success story, that everyone in Munich has convinced themselves that they are bullet-proof. Being told every day how great they are doesn't create much of a need to do anything differently.

[F32Fleet]

I agree with you StevenT, and I hope you're right about your car.
BMW et al have been living off their preceived image for years. True my BMW will do some amazing things when I get an opportunity to drive it as it's meant to be driven, but I thank god I lease the car.

I think unlike the Asian automakers, German and US are saddled with strong unions, who require a higher wages. If I remember correctly, Asain automakers have smaller labor forces which free up add'l $$ to be spent on making their cars more reliable atleast in the near term (ie, 1st 5 yrs of ownership).

[onesixeight]

Originally Posted by Socom

And the alternative is? To officially admit there's a problem and buyback every E90 that sold with an A/T. Then, on top of that, participate in some class action lawsuit that a calif lawyer trumps up?


I think it's safe to say BMWNA knows about the problem, but since they can't find a fix, they don't want to open themselves up to a lawsuit by "officially" admiting there's an issue.

I'll bet ya $5 in 6-12 months they're going to quietly "turn off" the soft stop on all E90's sold with A/T's.

The alternative is to acknowledge that there is a problem and a fix is on the way. I first complained about the problem the first day I picked up the car on May 27th. The following Monday I called BMW NA Customer Relations where I got little help. I posted on roadfly and someone from BMWNA contacted me and schedule an appointment to meet with an FSR from San Francisco. All he did was say it's normal and that like Active Steering (AFS) some people will like it, and some won't. In my opinion, that is not a valid analogy as I don't think anyone would enjoy brakes that lurch an inch everytime you come to a stop.

My problem with BMW AG and BMW NA is the way they approach problems. This is not an isolated case. On my 745, the electronic parking brake lurches everytime you engage it. I've had it for almost 3 years now, and they still haven't done anything about it. And they want me to get another 7? Forget it. Ever since my first complaint about the E90 in late May, they have now release a major CIP update which does nothing to address the problem. Like you said, BMW would easily turn off "soft-stop". But of course, they would be a nightmare for BMW admit one of their US industry first's, doesn't work as intended. This is not my first car with soft-stop, I have a E220 in Hong Kong with Bosch soft-stop and it does it's job as intended.

As for removing soft-stop, if they do, great, if they don't fine. For me, the damage is done. BMW continues to disappoint time and time again.

[Jpp5862]

Originally Posted by onesixeight

Hi falcitron,

BMW will not admit there is a problem, even with the FSR official from BMWNA. As crazy as it sounds, he wouldn't even acknowledge that this is a problem and simply wrote "normal function" and told me its just something I'm gonna have to get used to. Since there isn't any fix, I decided to just live with it until I met with the Sales Manager yesterday when discussing my end-of-lease options on my 745 and purchase of a new E60 M5. I told him I'm not considering another BMW product unless they fix this problem. Its just appaling that BMW would just brush this problem aside as if it's nothing.

At the end of our conversation, he said he would contact the regional marketing representative and see if they would buy the car back. If so, I'm taking my money and shopping elsewhere. This car along with my 745Li has been nothing but problems. Sure, they're great driving cars when they work, but that doesn't happen too often.

-Chris

Chris,

What was the resolution? Did they buy back the car? Interested to hear what happened.

[falcitron]

I've heard nothing yet. I keep calling the dealership and they tell me that they've "presented my case" to BMW and they're waiting to hear back. I've already warned them that I will hold the dealership accountable (I could care less whether BMW does anything or not) and that I will not continue own a defective vehicle.

We shall see . . .

[Jpp5862]

Originally Posted by falcitron

I've heard nothing yet. I keep calling the dealership and they tell me that they've "presented my case" to BMW and they're waiting to hear back. I've already warned them that I will hold the dealership accountable (I could care less whether BMW does anything or not) and that I will not continue own a defective vehicle.

We shall see . . .

What a pain. Good luck. I love the car but if I have to deal with this kind of crap to get it to drive as a normal car should (much less a $40k BMW), I'll be heading to the Lexus dealer to check out the new IS.

[falcitron]

Update....after much arguing with my local dealer sales manager, BMW has agreed to buy back my current car. I will be charged a nominal fee for use of the vehicle (10 cents/mile), but otherwise they seem to be making an attempt to keep me whole. My car is supposed to arrive later this month, and I will let everyone know if it actually happens the way they are promising.

If it does, then I'll be very curious to see if the lurching problem still exists in the new vehicle. If it does...I figure I at least will have a post-September production vehicle.

Falcitron