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      12-08-2019, 10:56 AM   #1
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New shocks....or more?

So my car has the M Suspension. I like the ride height with my current wheel setup.

I'm assuming the springs would last awhile, but the shocks are going to be needing changed soon. They still ride good, but at 70,XXX miles I know they need refreshing.

So would you guys just buy shocks and keep the stock springs, or just do both at once.

I'm looking for something similiar to my current ride height, but a little stiffer. I don't track the car....just a fun daily driver. But that and RSFB's are about all I plan. I've maxed out the motor mods, and figured suspension now.

After that...cosmetic stuff to fit with my performance Tii side skirts I still have stored away.

What would you pro's recommend? I had an E46 M3 with coil-overs before, but I don't plan to be adjusting anything.

But it would be nice to have something that is a little tighter than what the M Sport suspension was when it was new.

Thanks guys!
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      12-08-2019, 01:38 PM   #2
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I would suggest looking at a mild upgrade like a B12 kit from Bilstein (Eibach Pro-Kits with B8 sport dampers), about 10-15mm lower than M-sport. I have this kit and added dinan camber plates at the front which lift things up by 5mm, so it's not an agressive drop.

Similarly you could look at grabbing BMW performance springs, they are at most 10mm lower than stock, and pairing with B8s or Konis.

If you really don't want to drop the car at all then either Koni yellows or Bilstein B8s (or even B6s) could work.

While in there remember to replace all the small rubber bits/spring pads, shock mounts/strut mounts etc. And then you might as well do the rear subframe bushings....oh and brake lines since you have to drop the subframe...

Sheesh...once it begins....
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      12-08-2019, 04:26 PM   #3
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Based on what I've read the Bilstien b6 or b8, or the Koni STR.T (Orange) sound like what you want to look into based on what you describe - a refresh & keeping with the stock springs. Another option is the Koni special active. Any of those should work with the stock Msport springs.

I haven't tried either one b/c I went with the Ohlins R&T. (Which are fantastic btw)

Did you see the ST X set for sale? I'd be buying that if I did have the Ohlins.

"Brand New In Box ST X Coilovers for the E82" https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1662156
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      12-08-2019, 07:46 PM   #4
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The BMWP springs will give the least drop of aftermarket springs, but, they are more expensive than others at around $400 for the set. The positive is they are matched to the car's weight. They aren't a huge increase in spring rate from stock.

Nothing at all wrong with keeping your Sport springs with better dampers. If you like Bilsteins you'll get into the B6 vs B8 conundrum. Koni's don't present that issue. You'll get a significantly better ride in terms of comfort and handling with new dampers regardless of which ones you go for.

Certainly heed asbrr's advice and replace everything else.
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      12-09-2019, 06:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
Based on what I've read the Bilstien b6 or b8, or the Koni STR.T (Orange) sound like what you want to look into based on what you describe - a refresh & keeping with the stock springs. Another option is the Koni special active. Any of those should work with the stock Msport springs.

I haven't tried either one b/c I went with the Ohlins R&T. (Which are fantastic btw)

Did you see the ST X set for sale? I'd be buying that if I did have the Ohlins.

"Brand New In Box ST X Coilovers for the E82" https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1662156

I did just have a look at those. I'm not familiar with that brand, but also don't come from the BMW world until recently.

So you think those are a pretty decent setup...or heard feedback from others? I'm assuming if I were to buy these, I would still need to get all the stuff (small rubber bits/spring pads, shock mounts/strut mounts) that asbrr mentioned as well....correct?

Thanks guys. All of you are a big help!
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      12-09-2019, 09:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
I did just have a look at those. I'm not familiar with that brand, but also don't come from the BMW world until recently.

So you think those are a pretty decent setup...or heard feedback from others? I'm assuming if I were to buy these, I would still need to get all the stuff (small rubber bits/spring pads, shock mounts/strut mounts) that asbrr mentioned as well....correct?

Thanks guys. All of you are a big help!

The ST are made by KW which is a well known/quality manufacturer. The ST are marketed as a more entry level brand but with very similar build and characteristics. They are a good entry level coilover system.

As for the pads and so on, you will need some as the ST coils appear to use the same top mounts and hardware at the front. The rears probably use all the same hardware except maybe the lower and upper spring pads, hard to say from the picture.

For reference these are the diagrams so you can see how this stuff comes together:

Front: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_0695
- Looks like you should need parts 1 to 9 from here (maybe 8 can be reused it's a metal spring cup). Be sure to buy the latest iteration of the guide support (9), part number ending in 5098. ECS has a crazy sale for Lemforder brand ones for like $18.99 right now!
- Also, consider adding Dinan static camber plates to the front, they are noiseless and add about -0.75 of static camber which helps front end grip
- Lastly I'd suggest buying all the parts one shot and building the struts completely to avoid having to dis-assemble the old struts to reuse parts, that way it's a swap out and swap in job.

Rear:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=33_1233
- I *think* most of the factory rubber parts will go here, but I'm not certain so please check
- One thing not shown here is the lower shock mount, another rubber part. That's show here as #1: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=33_1928
- I'm not sure if they are compatible, but take a look at the Dinan rear shock top mounts as well. Supposedly eliminate the foam and add 10mm of shock travel to help with ride quality. I have these on as well with my B12 kit.

Some vendors do an "installation kit" which includes most/all of the above, not all parts may apply to you given the coilovers, but something to consider:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assemble...1306775098kt1/

Last but not least, seriously consider the rear subframe bushings! I have the whiteline 2 piece, there are many other alternatives as well. If you have eliminated your runflats, the bushings should get an upgrade (the runflats are the main reason BMW put those shitty bushings in, to help with the super stiff sidewalls). The factory bushings allow way too much slop in the rear end, if you're upgrading your suspension having proper RSFB bushings in place will really help it work properly.

And then like I said you might as well do the brake lines haha.
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      12-10-2019, 05:32 AM   #7
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Thanks asbrr .

I do plan to do RSFB when I do all of this. Still kind of torn. I like the current ride height with the sport springs as I have no rubbing with my +1 wheels (18").

So I may just go with the damper approach with all new "Soft bits" you mentioned and full RSFB to get something just a little tighter. I have heard good things about the Condor Bushings as well.

At least that will simplify the decision I need to make with what type of damper to go with that pairs well with the sport spring rates.
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      12-10-2019, 03:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Thanks asbrr .

I do plan to do RSFB when I do all of this. Still kind of torn. I like the current ride height with the sport springs as I have no rubbing with my +1 wheels (18").

So I may just go with the damper approach with all new "Soft bits" you mentioned and full RSFB to get something just a little tighter. I have heard good things about the Condor Bushings as well.

At least that will simplify the decision I need to make with what type of damper to go with that pairs well with the sport spring rates.
Cool/makes sense. Even if keeping stock M sport springs (nothing wrong with that), consider adding the Dinan rear shock mounts for that extra travel (= comfort).

One more application to consider is the Koni Active Sport which if you're not doing any track work are excellent street based shocks and a nice upgrade to factory. They are meant to work with factory springs. These replaced/are the updated version of the old "FSD" shocks.
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      12-10-2019, 04:47 PM   #9
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An alternative to the Dinan rear shock mounts are Monroe. 907984 I believe. I'm sure the Dinan's have something better about them, but the Monroes are like $10-$12
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      12-10-2019, 09:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
An alternative to the Dinan rear shock mounts are Monroe. 907984 I believe. I'm sure the Dinan's have something better about them, but the Monroes are like $10-$12
I went with the monroe strutmate upper shock mounts. I'm not sure whether they are the same as the Dinan but they are stiffer than the stock mounts which is what I was looking for.
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      12-11-2019, 09:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
Cool/makes sense. Even if keeping stock M sport springs (nothing wrong with that), consider adding the Dinan rear shock mounts for that extra travel (= comfort).

One more application to consider is the Koni Active Sport which if you're not doing any track work are excellent street based shocks and a nice upgrade to factory. They are meant to work with factory springs. These replaced/are the updated version of the old "FSD" shocks.
Thanks. The Koni's are one set that keeps grabbing my attention during all of the reading I have been doing.
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      12-11-2019, 10:11 AM   #12
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Thanks. The Koni's are one set that keeps grabbing my attention during all of the reading I have been doing.
If keeping stock sport springs I'd go with Konis if for no other reason than to dodge the B6 or B8 question. Over the years I've read posts from people going to Bilstein and getting different answers. For something that lowers as much as Eibach or the BMWP springs, B8 is probably certain. For sport springs....
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      12-11-2019, 11:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
If keeping stock sport springs I'd go with Konis if for no other reason than to dodge the B6 or B8 question. Over the years I've read posts from people going to Bilstein and getting different answers. For something that lowers as much as Eibach or the BMWP springs, B8 is probably certain. For sport springs....
Thanks. Plus the recent stories I have read about Bilstein's issues don't really help their cause although I'm sure it was just a few random issues.

But their CS response that I read about didn't impress me.

I like the Sport Springs with these wheels...I don't care to go any lower. Here's a smaller pic, but kind of shows how it is sitting now. The back fender gap is the same as the front, but the shadow of the tire makes it appear wider.
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      12-11-2019, 12:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Thanks. Plus the recent stories I have read about Bilstein's issues don't really help their cause although I'm sure it was just a few random issues.

But their CS response that I read about didn't impress me.

I like the Sport Springs with these wheels...I don't care to go any lower. Here's a smaller pic, but kind of shows how it is sitting now. The back fender gap is the same as the front, but the shadow of the tire makes it appear wider.
I was wanting a bit more spring rate but also didn't want a big ride height drop. I had retrofitted some sport springs (initially car was non-sport suspension) but it ended up sitting abt the same as original b/c they were for a heavier car. So I went with the BMWP springs. May be a slight bit lower than I'd consider ideal, but, still good and works well with the Koni Yellows (also no color clash )

Your car looks good - I especially like ARC-8's!!
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      12-11-2019, 12:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
I was wanting a bit more spring rate but also didn't want a big ride height drop. I had retrofitted some sport springs (initially car was non-sport suspension) but it ended up sitting abt the same as original b/c they were for a heavier car. So I went with the BMWP springs. May be a slight bit lower than I'd consider ideal, but, still good and works well with the Koni Yellows (also no color clash )

Your car looks good - I especially like ARC-8's!!
Thanks! I got the 18" ET45. I'm running those with a square setup 245/35/18. I went straight to that from the staggered factory set with run-flats.

That alone made a huge difference!
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      12-11-2019, 01:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Thanks. Plus the recent stories I have read about Bilstein's issues don't really help their cause although I'm sure it was just a few random issues.

But their CS response that I read about didn't impress me.

I like the Sport Springs with these wheels...I don't care to go any lower. Here's a smaller pic, but kind of shows how it is sitting now. The back fender gap is the same as the front, but the shadow of the tire makes it appear wider.
Car looks great - for factory M-sport it's actually lower than I remember my car being. It looks pretty close to my car as it is now with the B12 kit lol!
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      12-11-2019, 09:34 PM   #17
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I did t realize you have the Apex Arc8s. I'm jealous. If you stay with the stock springs you should be able to avoid needling front spacers.
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      12-12-2019, 06:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I did t realize you have the Apex Arc8s. I'm jealous. If you stay with the stock springs you should be able to avoid needling front spacers.

That was what I wanted to hear. I should have put the wheel info in the first post. I only mentioned 18" later in the thread, and how I have no clearance issues now.

So I will be keeping these springs.

I remember when the Apex wheels showed up, I could hold one of them out at shoulder level with one hand they were so light!
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      12-12-2019, 06:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
I did t realize you have the Apex Arc8s. I'm jealous. If you stay with the stock springs you should be able to avoid needling front spacers.

That was what I wanted to hear. I should have put the wheel info in the first post. I only mentioned 18" later in the thread, and how I have no clearance issues now.

So I will be keeping these springs.

I remember when the Apex wheels showed up, I could hold one of them out at shoulder level with one hand they were so light!
Apex fitment guide. They know better than anyone I'd think.

https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide
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      12-12-2019, 12:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Apex fitment guide. They know better than anyone I'd think.

https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide
Yeah....I used this one:

Oddly enough they fit with no issues even though they recommend 5mm front spacers. When I installed them, I had plenty of room and the fender placement looked great.

I have tested them out on some pretty good dips and transitions and haven't had any issues!

Front & Rear: 18x8.5" ET45 with 235/40-18 tires

Popular fitment.
Available only in ARC-8 and EC-7 designs.
Direct fit with stock suspension, lowering springs, and a variety of aftermarket coilovers. 5mm front spacers required for certain aftermarket suspensions, see below.
245/35-18 tires can fit with 5mm front spacers and approximately -1.5 degrees of camber or more. Larger front spacers may be required for certain aftermarket suspensions, see below.
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      12-15-2019, 03:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
If keeping stock sport springs I'd go with Konis if for no other reason than to dodge the B6 or B8 question. Over the years I've read posts from people going to Bilstein and getting different answers. For something that lowers as much as Eibach or the BMWP springs, B8 is probably certain. For sport springs....
Yeah, different answers from Bilstein is maddening. Not wanting to re-ignite the debate but with info. from them and Turner I've concluded that B6's are for 0-25mm (1") drop. That includes all BMW springs, Sport Pkg. and Performance. Over 1" is B8. Turner backs this by advising B8's are not recommended for any OE springs including Sport Pkg./ Performance. On the short term many seem to disregard this with no apparent problems. My personal experience is that if you're happy with your ride height, the B6's with Sport Pkg. springs work very nicely indeed.
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      12-15-2019, 08:36 PM   #22
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I'd keep your stock springs and go with Koni Special Active shocks, especially since you're happy with your ride height. Definitely do a refresh of the mounting components; front strut mounts, rear upper and lower shock mounts, bump stops, and shock boots.

The BMW Performance springs are great, but I think they're NLA now, so sourcing them will be exceedingly difficult.

If you do a spring/shock combo, I liked my Koni Sport shocks with Eibach Pro Kit springs.
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