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      12-08-2019, 11:17 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
As said, cars aren't an "investment" until you get into the next level money stuff.

For me, the "investment" is which cool car can I get into and have a good time for as close to free as possible. When I go to sell a vehicle, a good investment is seen when I realize I got to drive a vehicle for X time for Y cost and came out thinking, "yeah, I definitely had at least Y worth of fun."

I think of my E90 M3 (of which I never intended to get rid of) that was totaled by someone else. The insurance check was about $3k less than I bought it for two years and ~20k miles prior. Getting to own and drive that car with the experiences I had and the people I met was worth a lot more than $3k for me. Good investment.

Of course, insert insurance, gas, maintenance, blah blah disclaimer. It's a necessity regardless if I drove an appliance.
Exactly. And worded better than how I was trying to get the point across.
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      12-08-2019, 11:43 AM   #46
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Smiles per mile, naturally aspirated, manual transmission and least depreciation and maintenance. Are those all of your requirements?

You mentioned the R8 V10. Do your requirements include Audi brand, German design or V10 engine? What other requirements do you have? What about year (age) and mileage?

Probably need more discussion on how a smile is generated. Acceleration? Top speed? Lateral acceleration? Exhaust sound, based on the word "screaming" in the original post? Admiration from strangers?

The original post seems to rule out Porsche. Do you agree? What else is ruled out?

What was your favorite car when you were 17-25 years old, assuming you are older than those ages now? Forgive the assumption, if it is incorrect.

Median price $150k?

Last edited by chassis; 12-08-2019 at 12:02 PM..
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      12-08-2019, 01:56 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Smiles per mile, naturally aspirated, manual transmission and least depreciation and maintenance. Are those all of your requirements?

You mentioned the R8 V10. Do your requirements include Audi brand, German design or V10 engine? What other requirements do you have? What about year (age) and mileage?

Probably need more discussion on how a smile is generated. Acceleration? Top speed? Lateral acceleration? Exhaust sound, based on the word "screaming" in the original post? Admiration from strangers?

The original post seems to rule out Porsche. Do you agree? What else is ruled out?

What was your favorite car when you were 17-25 years old, assuming you are older than those ages now? Forgive the assumption, if it is incorrect.

Median price $150k?
great questions!

definitely not tied to the audi brand, or any particular engine design, not necessarily ruling out porsches, but I've had 2 before and I feel like something different might be the right move

my experience is that of the cars I've owned, the naturally aspirated manual cars are the ones I've enjoyed most
as for what brings me smiles, low end torque is something I appreciate (I find in a big city like the one I live in, it's hard to find chances to really rev a car out, which is a frustration I felt with the porsches I had), I value beauty and aggressive design, immediate throttle response, engine and exhaust sound, smooth buttery engine feel, handling is something I enjoy but I don't track my cars

I am not into prestige or impressing others, it's all about the drive for me

This would be a purely street special occassion car. Max budget I guess about 200k cdn. Yes looking for a more modern car with low mileage.

my fave car back back then is hard to remember, but it was probably a porsche 911
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      12-08-2019, 02:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2011-bmw-1m-58/

Not sure why this car is not fetching the money its worth, if i could i would grab it for this price...
Canadian 1Ms sell for much less than US 1Ms
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      12-08-2019, 02:18 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
this.

i'm so glad i don't live a life where this kind of mindset controls me; would never want to decide things like this based on 'investment' criteria.

buy what you love and drive the shit out of it. Screw investing in cars.
it sounds cool to say money ain't a thing when it comes to cars but of course it is

the question I am facing is if I am going to do what I've really wanted to do and drop some serious coin on a cool car that is normally aspirated and has a manual transmission, which car will deliver the most in smiles per mile and offer the least hurt on the pocketbook in terms of depreciation and repairs/maintenance.

I definitely didn't title the thread properly for what I was looking for input on (I've edited it now)
IMO If you're willing to spend $150k on a car you should focus on what you love rather than being practical.

It's not a practical choice to buy a $150k car; so why insert practicality into the equation?

This is why, IMO, people are often not happy with their choices and are constantly chasing something else.

I don't mean this as an attack on you specifically but your original title was very non-passionate and more about "investment" details.
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      12-08-2019, 02:56 PM   #50
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It's normal (and understandable) to think about depreciation when making a large purchase, but it shouldn't be the primary factor.

Hate to break it to you but all modern cars will depreciate. There's too many of them out there and nothing is going to appreciate (unless we're talking something like a 918, La Ferrari, etc. but alas we are not).

Go into it thinking "which of these cars would I be happy holding onto for 5-10 years"..."which will be more special than the new stuff all these manufactures are churning out in mass numbers". Anything NA and Manual is probably a good bet and some awesome cars were listed. I'd try to reach and get a 991.2 manual GT3 if possible, but you have a lot of other great options out there.

My philosophy on cars is you have to be OK with them hitting $0 one day. All it takes is the economy taking a terrible turn, maybe you get into an accident and diminished value crushes you. etc.
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      12-08-2019, 03:25 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by baege View Post
So I am thinking of perhaps finally going the 2 car route and adding in addition to the m240i, a normally aspirated manual car that won't depreciate and may even appreciate and is reasonably reliable without huge maintenance costs. Max budget is 150k ish.

possible candidates include:

2010-2015 R8 v10 manual
2015-2016 991.1 GTS manual


I can't really come up with anything else that is normally aspirated and manual within that budget that I can see depreciating less than the r8 and doesn't come with outrageous maintenance/upkeep.

I am leaning towards the R8 as it seems to me that while the new GTS's will not be normally aspirated, there are still the GT cars that are normally aspirated and manual.

The manual r8 v10's will literally be the last of their kind.

I've also already kinda done the porsche thing having had 2 cayman 981's, never had a screaming v10!

Any other suggestions?
I don't think you'll find anything that will go up in value unless you're in the super exotics/upper echelon territory and even then it is a rare occurrence.

That being said a car is not an investment nor an asset, it is a liability. Literally losing dollar per hour sitting on your driveway.

If you're willing to spend a bit more my suggestion would be Porshce 991.2 GT3RS, AFAIK the depreciation on them is not terrible and they're more on the rare side. Seriously though, just go drive one, when I heard it screaming at 9000RPM in person I got goosebumps and I could not stop smiling.
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      12-08-2019, 10:49 PM   #52
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      12-09-2019, 07:18 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
IMO If you're willing to spend $150k on a car you should focus on what you love rather than being practical.

It's not a practical choice to buy a $150k car; so why insert practicality into the equation?

This is why, IMO, people are often not happy with their choices and are constantly chasing something else.

I don't mean this as an attack on you specifically but your original title was very non-passionate and more about "investment" details.
I get what you're saying, but when you are negotiating with the wife about dropping 150k on a sports car instead of contributing to a bigger downpayment of a house, then practicality does tend to creep in

If you buy a car that depreciates slowly and has low maintenance costs
as opposed to something like an aston martin that depreciates like a tank and has the potential for outrageous maintenance costs, the overall cost difference can be huge

so even though it's a large investment amount in a car, which seems impractical, the choice of what to invest in still matters, unless you are in a financial position where a difference of 5 to 10k a year in your financial situation doesn't matter, which I am not
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      12-09-2019, 07:27 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
E60 M5 manual and V10
M6 manual and V10
That's because you can buy one for $5 as is... not sure how they could depreciate at all from there... Wouldn't expect these to appreciate either as that would have already happened since we are already in the 100% turbo era... the reliability and maintenance headaches effectively made both of those cars nonstarters.
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      12-09-2019, 12:02 PM   #55
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The maintenance headaches of them is overblown, when cars are abused as often as they were and not properly maintained then they can get a bad rap. The SMG in the V10 cars has all the same maintenance frequencies as other BMW cars. The 6spd was much less problematic. Well maintained 6spds are past bottom and holding or increasing in value. Its easy to find poorly maintained V10s on the cheap, much harder to find the nice ones.

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That's because you can buy one for $5 as is... not sure how they could depreciate at all from there... Wouldn't expect these to appreciate either as that would have already happened since we are already in the 100% turbo era... the reliability and maintenance headaches effectively made both of those cars nonstarters.
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      12-09-2019, 10:03 PM   #56
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Cars as investment? hmmm

How about?

Ferrari F40 - it's modern enough -- 87-92
McLaren F1 -- 90's
Ford GT (2006) and current generation
Porsche Carrera GT
BMW Z8
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      12-10-2019, 02:30 AM   #57
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      12-10-2019, 06:44 AM   #58
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Cars as investment? hmmm

How about?

Ferrari F40 - it's modern enough -- 87-92
McLaren F1 -- 90's
Ford GT (2006) and current generation
Porsche Carrera GT
BMW Z8
You forgot the 1M——which has never depreciated at all...unlike some of the cars in your list.
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      12-10-2019, 06:52 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
IMO If you're willing to spend $150k on a car you should focus on what you love rather than being practical.

It's not a practical choice to buy a $150k car; so why insert practicality into the equation?

This is why, IMO, people are often not happy with their choices and are constantly chasing something else.

I don't mean this as an attack on you specifically but your original title was very non-passionate and more about "investment" details.
I get what you're saying, but when you are negotiating with the wife about dropping 150k on a sports car instead of contributing to a bigger downpayment of a house, then practicality does tend to creep in

If you buy a car that depreciates slowly and has low maintenance costs
as opposed to something like an aston martin that depreciates like a tank and has the potential for outrageous maintenance costs, the overall cost difference can be huge

so even though it's a large investment amount in a car, which seems impractical, the choice of what to invest in still matters, unless you are in a financial position where a difference of 5 to 10k a year in your financial situation doesn't matter, which I am not
I kinda get what you're saying but I dunno....I guess my mindset is totally different.

I will never spend $150k on a car. If I ever spend $100k it will be on a car that Is probably older and something I will never sell again.

$150k, to me, is an impractical amount of money on a car for most people.

If you really want something that won't lose money; you should consider classic cars where you likely won't lose a dime and will have more of an adventure than buying something newer, IMO.

I'd say buy something you really love and enjoy your time and life rather than worrying about selling the concept of buying a compromise.
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      12-10-2019, 12:14 PM   #60
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Very informative video:
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      12-10-2019, 04:37 PM   #61
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What about a first gen Acura NSX.
^This. It will certainly appreciate, they are very reliable, and amazing to drive. Sure, they aren't wickedly fast, but the sensation of speed, engagement, and connection is there and something you don't find in most super/sports cars these days.

You can pick up a nice first gen NSX for $50-75K and then you can take the left over cash and invest it. Just make sure to get one with pop-up headlights and a manual.
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      12-10-2019, 06:22 PM   #62
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
Don't even look at an AM. Everything I've seen from long-term owners has them pegged as a POS. I drove a DB9 Volante' - it was a joke. The build quality seemed like a bad kit car at best. Compared to a Gallardo, it was horrible.

Cars are truly bad "investments" unless you got in on the ground floor (like the 1M or the original Ford GT from the 2000's).

That being said, it looks like you're more interested in something that could hold onto its value and retain the most value - and a bonus would be an increase in value long-term.
R8 with a manual - the later cars with the V10 and a manual would be stellar for sure.
Gallardo with a manual - not as bad as you'd think for maintenance - again, plenty of sources out there to figure out what years are good.
Viper can be a fun car, however, I'm not sure they'll go up in value. I think it'll level off at best. They just didn't sell well to start with so it tells you something right away. Not that many people wanted them.
964 or 993 - have been holding steady with prices, but they're pretty high. Not sure if they're moving or not at those elevated prices
997 - I think you missed the boat. The prices have gone up quite a bit and are holding pretty high (a nice car is around $60K!)
997 GT3 I would think is the best of the bunch. You can get them for under $100K and it will last. It has a manual transmission to boot.
yes I think my post was not the most aptly titled, I realize the likelihood of actually making some kinda of return on my money when you factor in the costs of ownership is very low indeed

I am really looking for an NA manual car in the 150k to 200k range that will best hold its value and maybe even appreciate so that the costs of ownership are minimal

some good suggestions so far

but I think the r8 v10 manual is still leading the pack
Sport EVO.

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      12-11-2019, 09:52 AM   #63
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Again, doesn't need to be super exotic, just take a new kinda-nice-iconic car like an STI or hellcat and throw it in a garage for 20 years. People will go nuts for it when you show a never-used pristine one with zero on the odometer.
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      12-11-2019, 05:20 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
I get what you're saying, but when you are negotiating with the wife about dropping 150k on a sports car instead of contributing to a bigger downpayment of a house, then practicality does tend to creep in

If you buy a car that depreciates slowly and has low maintenance costs
as opposed to something like an aston martin that depreciates like a tank and has the potential for outrageous maintenance costs, the overall cost difference can be huge

so even though it's a large investment amount in a car, which seems impractical, the choice of what to invest in still matters, unless you are in a financial position where a difference of 5 to 10k a year in your financial situation doesn't matter, which I am not
....imho, if 5K - 10K a year impacts your annual finances, then you should not be buying an occasional driver for 150K, that seems insane.

And while im not the practical type, your wife may be right and you should do the financial comparison of putting down the additional 150K on the house vs the car and see what it looks like. If the interest costs and duration savings on the house significantly exceed the car enjoyment and depreciation, then u have a real decision to make.....
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      12-11-2019, 05:26 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
Cars as investment? hmmm

How about?

Ferrari F40 - it's modern enough -- 87-92
McLaren F1 -- 90's
Ford GT (2006) and current generation
Porsche Carrera GT
BMW Z8
For 150k????????
Maybe 5X to 10X 150K for some of these, except the Z8 ofcourse

There are many investment cars but very few sub 200K
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      12-11-2019, 05:46 PM   #66
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Makes me wonder how well Rally Road's investments will hold up (it's a service that lets you invest in shares of classic cars): https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...ars-rally-road Article covers some interesting choices

With the R8 to be discontinued, any R8 (especially V10 or manual) is a decent choice, along with I'd argue the first gen Acura NSX (maybe some of the early 2000s ricers will want this as a collector item)
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