Naturally Aspirated or Turbo

[raceman]

Originally Posted by sootyvrs

One thing I would add after recently driving a 135i for a couple of days is that the throttle response is night and day different on my NA 130i.

The 135 is a great car, no doubt and extremely tunable for big numbers but the soft response throttle pedal and lag is very noticeable after driving my 130i. This response gives the 135i a lazy character which is not quite to my liking.

Faster, yes but not as rewarding in my opinion. I'm hoping to get around 280-290 bhp with Intake, exhaust and a re-map but I'll be happy with this.

I absolutelly agree with you.
I drove 130i as reference car for my 125i tuning project and when I reached similar performance with 125i it became clear that tuned 125i is not much less exciting than stock 135i (compared to much underpowered stock 125i).
You can add 40 HP quite easily on 130i with sport exhaust incl. racing downpipes (Supersprint is probably way to go) + intake + ECU adjustment (shoudn't be big deal for software maniacs). With 300+ HP and MT this car is ready to be on par with stock 135i.
And much better reving in 4500-6500 range.

[sootyvrs]

The Supersprint stuff is pretty expensive. Not sure about the gains per £ with the manifold/racing cats/exhaust as I can't seem to find any Dyno figures with these changes.

I would definitely consider the racing Cats and manifold if the gains are real!

[raceman]

Originally Posted by sootyvrs

The Supersprint stuff is pretty expensive. Not sure about the gains per £ with the manifold/racing cats/exhaust as I can't seem to find any Dyno figures with these changes.

I would definitely consider the racing Cats and manifold if the gains are real!

Supersprint is wallet heavy, but their exhaust downpipes for 130i work as butter.
All together (intake-downpipes-exhaust-ECU) add power and more important way more sportive character to engine (can't describe it better).
Subjectivelly effect of around plus 35-40 horse powers is much more than normally expected, because it is spreaded over entire rev range and overall reaction when pushing pedal is much improved.

Only ECU tuning, although quite impressive in figures (for 125i around plus 55 HP is max that can be achieved), still leaves car without 'that strong push' IMO.
Catless or racing cat downpipes 'open' this final reserve of N52 engine.

[janus77]

As far as tunes go, is it possible to go to a shop that can tune the car on a dyno, or do companies need to work on that particular model of car first to understand the ECU so they can develop a tune?

Just wondering since there aren't any companies in Australia tuning the 125i ecu (that i know of), however there are companies who specialise in performance products, can they do ECU tunes?

Injen intake installed yesterday, car seems a little more eager, sounds fantastic

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

Since he is posting this anti 128i nonsense on the N52 forum, do I detect the (not so) faint odor of troll?

Tom

oh what because i'm not sitting on the 135 sub board and waiting for the next person to ask about an exhaust or riss racing part i'm a troll? last time i checked having a difference of opinion makes you a person, not a nuisance. i suggest if you can't take the heat then you should put up the top in your wife's convertible. and i had the option of both the 35 and 28 and i didn't even look at the 28. if i wanted a slow small car i would have gotten a standard minicooper because its basically the same size but handles leaps and bounds better than a 128.

[raceman]

It is good to see 135i guys here.
We share 99% of same experience and everyone pays his bills.
Non-turbo 300 HP engine in 125i is excellent combo, no need to prove anything to 135i owners.
I'm sure many of them will swap their 135i for my 125i after trying it, as engine power feel is simply better in non-turbo.
But to be fair, going over 300 HP is legit twin turbo area.

[spam052]

i wish there was someone with a decent tune (mora than 30hp) here in the states that could be loaded by just sending the ecu or some other similar way.

[BMW86]

it must just be me but i enjoy the torque curve in the 135i. having so much torque in such low rpm makes for daily driving a blast every time. you can floor it in any gear at any speed and it just goes... it's addictive.

[SlicktopTTZ]

Maybe if the 128 could rev to 8,500 rpm with some cams and valve springs would it reach 300whp with header and exhaust. That would be a fun engine. NA is too hard to get the power I crave, plus you have to love turbo spool. Now imagine that same 8,500rpm redline with headwork and a large single turbo! I'll leave NA engines to Dirtbike and Streetbikes, my YZ450F has throttle response no car could ever dream of, except maybe an F1.

[raceman]

Originally Posted by BMW86

it must just be me but i enjoy the torque curve in the 135i. having so much torque in such low rpm makes for daily driving a blast every time. you can floor it in any gear at any speed and it just goes... it's addictive.

It is fantastic indeed how N54 develops power around 1500 rpm and up, for daily city drive it's nothing less than perfect. Tuned N54 is even more exciting in exploding turbo power.
What N54 lacks is power continuance in upper revs and responsiveness (of course in relative terms).
Twin turbo is very well engineered engine with huge potential to grow, N52 is more of classic approach, but with several benefits one might appreciate over pure power figures.

[Yuzi]

Originally Posted by frimmelnojerz

oh what because i'm not sitting on the 135 sub board and waiting for the next person to ask about an exhaust or riss racing part i'm a troll? last time i checked having a difference of opinion makes you a person, not a nuisance. i suggest if you can't take the heat then you should put up the top in your wife's convertible. and i had the option of both the 35 and 28 and i didn't even look at the 28. if i wanted a slow small car i would have gotten a standard minicooper because its basically the same size but handles leaps and bounds better than a 128.

I agree you can say anything in your opinion in a forum but telling fellow members wrong information is not good =)

The mini cooper and the Cooper S did not handle leaps and bounds better than a 128i. "We clocked (mini) 67.7 mph in the slalom, which is slower than the 128i's slalom speed by 1.4 mph." Plus 128i Sport Package has the same suspension as 135i in Canada. So basically you bashing your own car too.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130427

[rm163603]

I've never been in a 125 or 128... does it rev as well as the 130i or is the top end a bit more stifled?

If it is then the N52 looses one of it's big attractions for me. The way it revs so keenly is great.

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by rm163603

I've never been in a 125 or 128... does it rev as well as the 130i or is the top end a bit more stifled?

If it is then the N52 looses one of it's big attractions for me. The way it revs so keenly is great.

While we don't get the 130i and I haven't driven a 330i, I can compare my 128i with my previous car, an '03 Z4 3.0. In 2003, the Z4 was rated at 225 hp and 220 ft. lbs. of torque and redlined at 6,500 rpm - for the current model, the torque is the same and the hp has been upped to 255. The US 128i is rated at 230 hp, 200 ft. lbs. of torque with a redline at 7,000 rpm. While the Z4 had noticably better low rpm torque, it seems to me that the 128i actually revs more freely above 5,500 - even when factoring in the substantial weight difference of the 2 cars. Especially useful is the 3,500~6,500 range for passing in 3rd gear which equates to about 45~90 mph for the 128i MT.

Now if we could get a 130i which boosts the low end torque without affecting that wonderful upper rev range...

Tom

[raceman]

Originally Posted by rm163603

I've never been in a 125 or 128... does it rev as well as the 130i or is the top end a bit more stifled?

If it is then the N52 looses one of it's big attractions for me. The way it revs so keenly is great.

Stock 125i doesn't rev in upper range as 130i, it was downpowered and somehow damped from original 130i specs, but it is easily upgraded via ECU.
Even more after breathing in-out system is upgraded to freer flow and ECU further tuned for that.
I have no theoretical explanation why, but improvement is specially noticable in upper mid and higher revs while retaining its generally refined and smooth character.

[Mega Man]

Originally Posted by Evice

unless you are gonna take it to track, autox or events like that, get 128.. It is powerful enough

Actually, I think one would have more fun tracking the 128 than the 135. My previous car was N/A, and having that power build up through the power band was quite satisfying with the high revs.

It's all going to be personal preference, but really the 128 is a fun car. Possibly more fun than the 135 on the street as well; though I don't support the idea of street racing, I know we've all "gunned it" from time to time. That said, if you were to smash out on the 135i, you'd be at a higher speed sooner. You'll have more fun time taking the 128 to redline and shifting than the 135i. I probably didn't explain that very well...

Anyway, I completely agree that the 128 is very [COLOR=Red]underrated[COLOR=Black]. I gets swallowed up by the 135's numbers. I think some people are too concerned with these numbers and not having fun with their cars.

What it all boils down to, is that we're all 1ADDICTS. I'm always happy to see another e82, regardless of its badging.

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by Yuzi

I agree you can say anything in your opinion in a forum but telling fellow members wrong information is not good =)

The mini cooper and the Cooper S did not handle leaps and bounds better than a 128i. "We clocked (mini) 67.7 mph in the slalom, which is slower than the 128i's slalom speed by 1.4 mph." Plus 128i Sport Package has the same suspension as 135i in Canada. So basically you bashing your own car too.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130427

i bought my car because of its engine, not the suspension. the reason the mini s doesn't have the same slalom is because it has no power. i never said it was a faster car but its DEFINITELY more capable in the handling category than either 1 series.

[Noer]

The amount of bullshit in this thread is incredible. If you love your 125i/128i - great. But trying to talk down the 135i seriously just makes you look stupid and for the most of you I doubt you even test-drived the car.


I mean - argumenting that you dont want fuelpump problems etc. Tons of us have 135i's without fuelpump problems... Its just as always that the people with the problems are very vocal.

[blklacker]

Originally Posted by raceman

To summarize:

If one wishes 300 HP performance and non-turbo than 125i is way to go over stock 135i (difference in how 300 HP non-turbo engine reacts on pedal push alone is worth considering 125i as base car).
If one wishes to reach maximum power and torque (say 400) with relativelly small budget (compared to buying M3 or Porsche) than there is no other way than 135i (well except Nissan GT-R that kills any tuned BMW so far) with all problems and risk that engine will blow up one day.

My point from the day 1 was that 1er and 300 HP are marriage from heaven and that N52 engine is better choice for that particular target.
It is amazing how easy N54 can grow for next 50-80 HP over stock. For that fact I very much appreciate this engine.
I hate to say it, but for raw power, Nissan rules !

If I wanted a N/A car around the same HP as the 135i... the New Z would be my only other option...considering price

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by Mega Man

Actually, I think one would have more fun tracking the 128 than the 135. My previous car was N/A, and having that power build up through the power band was quite satisfying with the high revs.

I might be in agreement with you on this. I spent yesterday at the track with my 135, and while the power is great (especially with JB3), the ability to precisely modulate the power to maximize corner exit speed was an issue for me. I'm used to a E36M3 track car, and the on/off nature of the turbo power makes it difficult to get the most out of it. I expect the 135 is still going to be ultimately faster than a similarly prepped 128, but not necessarily as satisfying to drive to its limits.

[frimmelnojerz]

this thread went from 0 - retarded in 4.2 seconds and has yet to reach its top speed.

[Mega Man]

Originally Posted by m3bs

I might be in agreement with you on this. I spent yesterday at the track with my 135, and while the power is great (especially with JB3), the ability to precisely modulate the power to maximize corner exit speed was an issue for me. I'm used to a E36M3 track car, and the on/off nature of the turbo power makes it difficult to get the most out of it. I expect the 135 is still going to be ultimately faster than a similarly prepped 128, but not necessarily as satisfying to drive to its limits.

Exactly what I mean! I'm not a pro-racer by any means, I know my lines, and I can get a feel for entry/exit speeds after a few laps, but the smooth build of power from N/A is easier for me to manage than the sudden boost of power from a turbo. I'm sure in the hands of experienced and non-experienced drivers the 135 is faster around a track, a 1/4 mile, whatever; but which is easier to drive at its best? I would argue the 128. Unless I win the lottery, or can devote my free time to a race track full time, I don't think I'll ever be able to drive the 135 the way it could be driven. The way it wants to be driven.

Still, the acceleration in the 128 is superb. I test drove one back to back with the 135. I'm sure around a track, with two drivers of equal skill, and no long straights, the two would be very close.

[dragon1761]

Originally Posted by Mega Man

Actually, I think one would have more fun tracking the 128 than the 135. My previous car was N/A, and having that power build up through the power band was quite satisfying with the high revs.

It's all going to be personal preference, but really the 128 is a fun car. Possibly more fun than the 135 on the street as well; though I don't support the idea of street racing, I know we've all "gunned it" from time to time. That said, if you were to smash out on the 135i, you'd be at a higher speed sooner. You'll have more fun time taking the 128 to redline and shifting than the 135i. I probably didn't explain that very well...

Anyway, I completely agree that the 128 is very [color=Red]underrated[color=Black]. I gets swallowed up by the 135's numbers. I think some people are too concerned with these numbers and not having fun with their cars.

What it all boils down to, is that we're all 1ADDICTS. I'm always happy to see another e82, regardless of its badging.

very well said. +1. I read some of the posting on this topic. I believe no one is trying to bash on the 135i. Its a great car, its like 128i on steroids. People just wants to voice their opinions on how they feel and why they LOVE their choice of 128i over the 135i. At the end just exactly what MEGAMAN says we all are 1ADDICTS!!!! We all support the 1 series.