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      06-11-2011, 04:20 PM   #23
arggg45
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Originally Posted by NL-J View Post
The McNish crash was not the fault of the Ferrari, he went in there way too fast, I doubt he would have made the turn anyway.
He would have made the turn, but would have pushed wide on exit. Problem is still that the GT cars can't get out of their own way.
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      06-11-2011, 04:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arggg45 View Post
For the record, he is a pretty qualified racer. How he finances his racing efforts really don't come into play...I'm sure that he did not maliciously intend to hit Rockenfeller.

That said, from the replays that I've seen, and various other observations from the race, the GTE (Amateur) class needs to be rethought, or the racing qualifications required of the Amateurs who are racing needs to be stringently reviewed.
Playing gentleman racer at Lime Rock or Watkins Glen is a far cry from the 24 Hours of Le Mans at night. I don't think it was malicious, either. It was incompetence. He wandered across the lanes on one of the fastest sections of the track with a prototype (which was flashing its lights like crazy) bearing down on him. He's obviously far out of his depth, but fortunately it didn't cost Mike Rockenfeller's life for him to have hopefully realized that. Nobody who is anything less than a full time, professional race car driver has any business being in that race.
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      06-11-2011, 04:21 PM   #25
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he wasnt paying attention to his surroundings. Ferrari should never have been that close to the inside of that kink.
Both of those address why I said that they need to re-evaluate the qualifications for the amateur drivers.
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      06-11-2011, 04:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arggg45 View Post
For the record, he is a pretty qualified racer. How he finances his racing efforts really don't come into play...I'm sure that he did not maliciously intend to hit Rockenfeller.

That said, from the replays that I've seen, and various other observations from the race, the GTE (Amateur) class needs to be rethought, or the racing qualifications required of the Amateurs who are racing needs to be stringently reviewed.
Isn't there just too much difference in speed between the LMP cars, esp the Peugeots and Audi's, compared to the rest of the field? Can remember, think it was from last year or so, that the GT drivers were complaining about the LMP cars pushing a lot?
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      06-11-2011, 04:25 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by NL-J View Post
Isn't there just too much difference in speed between the LMP cars, esp the Peugeots and Audi's, compared to the rest of the field? Can remember, think it was from last year or so, that the GT drivers were complaining about the LMP cars pushing a lot?

True, but I also wonder if there are too many cars on the track to begin with.
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      06-11-2011, 04:29 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by NL-J View Post
Isn't there just too much difference in speed between the LMP cars, esp the Peugeots and Audi's, compared to the rest of the field? Can remember, think it was from last year or so, that the GT drivers were complaining about the LMP cars pushing a lot?
Yes, but the biggest problem with LeMans is the track. It doesn't foster particularly well to GT cars (vmax~180). The speed differential on the straights can approach 30-40mph. It simply puts the GT driver in a position where he doesn't have time to react and either get out of the way, or give the overtaking car more room...

While I feel horrible for Rocky and for the GT driver. I will argue that this was a racing incident and was a direct byproduct of an unreasonable speed differential between classes.
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      06-11-2011, 04:32 PM   #29
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#71 Ferrari that (from initial observations) seem to cause the crash of the #1 Audi races in the GTE-Pro class.

The driver of the Ferrari at the time was Robert Kauffman, an experienced GT racer with 15 races under his belt (all but 2 in Ferraris), has 2 class wins and has 2 previous appearances at Le Mans. So, he should have known better, but in the end it is a critical mistake causing a horrific accident.
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      06-11-2011, 04:45 PM   #30
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Hmm......

From the second replay (front view shot) it seems the inside pass is the far riskier move (vs. an outside open track pass) on a relatively straight part of the track, given that you are passing a GT car and given that it is night driving (even lower visibility).

Interesting that both Audi crashes were caused by the Audis trying risky inside moves at turns on GTE cars, although the McNish crash was at a bigger turn.

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      06-11-2011, 04:48 PM   #31
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Ferrari braked to try to avoid impact once he realized the Audi was where it was... Also, judging by the video, they never touched...



Also, since the Ferrari was running down the middle of the road, I wonder if he did not realize that the Audi had committed to passing on the right, and only saw the flashing out of his peripheral vision, and moved to the right to give the Audi the inside line into Indianapolis?
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      06-11-2011, 05:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arggg45 View Post
Ferrari braked to try to avoid impact once he realized the Audi was where it was... Also, judging by the video, they never touched...



Also, since the Ferrari was running down the middle of the road, I wonder if he did not realize that the Audi had committed to passing on the right, and only saw the flashing out of his peripheral vision, and moved to the right to give the Audi the inside line into Indianapolis?

Except that was the inside line. There was no need for that Ferrari to apex in that kink. The Ferrari should have moved over to the left, he didnt. He moved to the right, crossing into the Audi's line and ran him off the road.



I do agree with what was previously mentioned. With the insane differences in speed, I dont think the GT cars have enough time to move out of the way before the LMP cars are on their asses.
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      06-11-2011, 05:43 PM   #33
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these delays are killing me...
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      06-11-2011, 05:56 PM   #34
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these delays are killing me...
Agreed. But I'm watching my recorded F1 qualifying session right now to kill the delay time.

Also Alex were you on the meadowbrook going south today? I think I saw your car.
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      06-11-2011, 07:23 PM   #35
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Approaching the half-way point:


Prototypes: P1. Audi, P2. Peugeot, P3. Peugeot, P4. Peugeot, P5. Peugeot

GTE: P1. Corvette, P2. Ferrari, P3. Corvette, P4. Ferrari P5. Porsche


M3's are currently running P6 and P9 in GTE.
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      06-11-2011, 08:10 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylon View Post
There was no need for that Ferrari to apex in that kink.
I don't see any possible excuse that doesn't point to the Ferrari being clearly at fault. Or is it too much to ask GT drivers to check their freaking mirrors twice before changing lanes? Maybe it's time to separate the classes; sometimes it takes something like this to change things. Hope Rocky is okay.
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      06-11-2011, 09:11 PM   #37
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anyone sticking it out to 6 AM? I'll watch a bit at midnight, but that's my limit.
BTW anyone catch the wheels on the #56 M3GTR? It's ugly! I'm sure it' functional, but bring back the Ray's wheels.

Last edited by mdosu; 06-11-2011 at 09:18 PM..
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      06-11-2011, 09:27 PM   #38
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anyone sticking it out to 6 AM? I'll watch a bit at midnight, but that's my limit.
BTW anyone catch the wheels on the #56 M3GTR? It's ugly! I'm sure it' functional, but bring back the Ray's wheels.

I'll already be awake and at work by 6am. Won't be able to catch any of tonight's action, but I will catch the finish.
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      06-11-2011, 10:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Yea, and I sincerely dont think youre exaggerating when you say boneheaded. The GT cars should only have to worry about the prototype behind him, not the prototype behind the prototype who wants to pass two cars at the same time.
Exactly. McNish's crash was McNish's fault
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      06-11-2011, 10:34 PM   #40
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As much of a hard core M3 fan as I am, gotta admire those Corvette boys. A couple of truly American good looking race cars with their thundering V8s taking on the best the world (Europe) has to offer in their back yard, and doing it with style.
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      06-11-2011, 10:34 PM   #41
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Kauffman's been excluded from the race by the ACO for dangerous driving. So long, sucker.
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      06-11-2011, 11:01 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_K_AZ View Post
As much of a hard core M3 fan as I am, gotta admire those Corvette boys. A couple of truly American good looking race cars with their thundering V8s taking on the best the world (Europe) has to offer in their back yard, and doing it with style.
Agreed! Corvette has done a tremendous job....

BMW #5 and #6 right now... C'mon take the fight to Vette
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      06-12-2011, 12:34 AM   #43
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Just woke up, went to sleep an hour past midnight. I see the remaining Audi is still running.

Edit: one of the Corvettes off track as well as a Flying Lizard Porsche.
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      06-12-2011, 02:29 AM   #44
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I think BMW has a good chance. Their qualifying laptime is under 4min. They're running at 4:01 - 4:03 min/lap to preserve the cars.
Current position is 3 & 4 now.
Go get them bimmer boys!
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