M2: would you mind a 4-cylinder layout ?

[Artemis]

The M2 (internally nicknamed "The Downsized M") might get a 4-cylinder layout for weight reasons. A 1M on a diet ...with two nicked cojones.

Some quotes:

• "There is a lot of this car that will carry over for the next generation 1M in which that car will switch to four cylinders to which the M Division engineers are already working on the basics without time constraints or restrictions. [1M] is showing what is possible in a small time-frame. [M2] will show what is possible once you do not have restrictions."
  (http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...79&postcount=1 - August 2010)
• "Although work has commenced on the "Downsized" M, The M2 or the replacement for the most admired 1er M Coupe.
  It is known as the "Downsized" M because BMW M are investigating the concept of a completely reworked N20 based four cylinder in terms of the successor to the 1M offering the same recipe as before but with lower weight but still offering the entry to M ownership with the key of precision rather than outright power."
  http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=23 - July 2012)
• "BMW M2 Coupe - Successor to the BMW 1 Series M Coupe continues the same formula that made the last car be memorable, no huge competitor in the HP race, four cylinder will bring less weight, which matter most as does more enjoyment and overall feel is considered to be more of a priority than who has the biggest numbers. Already confirmed to be coming by BMW CEO.
  BMW M2 Gran Coupe - Baby Coupe inherits a four door brother and RWD, Direct competitor to the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG. Scott26 shares that there are now firm plans for an M2 Gran Coupe."
  (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=818302 - March 2013)
• FWIW:
  "Car and Driver: BMW is working on a compact vehicle architecture that will be fitted with three-cylinder engines. Is that a topic of discussion for you as well?
  Friedrich Nitschke: The three-cylinder is an attractive engine. It is possible to reach around 185 to 200 horsepower per liter in a forced-induction three-cylinder and we have 1.5 liters of displacement. Such an engine, which, by the way, sounds very similar to a six-cylinder engine, would have over 310 horsepower. And we are not even at the limit there. Generally speaking, I could imagine such an engine."
  (http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=835953 - May 2013)

Hence the question(s): would you mind a 4-cylinder layout for the M2 ? Would that be a deal breaker for getting an M2 (with eventual 1M trade-in) ? Or does it sufficiently quench your ///M thirst ?

See also these threads:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860846 ("1M versus M2: the benefits of the impromptu factor")
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=856158 ("Why are people keeping their 1Ms ?")

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Ian///M

BMW are perhaps directing this car to a younger audience who would be ok with a 4 banger (as with the A45)

BMW guessing/expecting/hoping to channel most 1M owners towards M3/M4 as future replacement (2011 + 4 years = 2015) ? That would be a wrong bet, except if the M2 turns out to be too domesticated/tame, some sort of M235i LCI, or DCT only (as we all know, ///M stands for ///Manual ).

[trinity_2200]

maybe it should call a "2M" instead of "M2", just some thoughts

[ozinaldo]

A few things:

1) I am still not convinced that the M2 will be greenlighted for production; yet to see a convincing arguement about it. Will believe when it is officially announced. I mean I think BMW is also still reflecting about it and not decided 100%.
2) It may or may not be with a 4 cylinder turbo. If BMW can not manage at least 360 ps out of their existing 4 cylinder layout they probably will not be too keen to be perceived behind Daimler-Benz in terms of engine technology. Depends on many things and why not a detuned S55 if it will be more cost effective than a newly developed 4 cylinder unit.
3) Now, original question: No I would not mind a 4 cylinder as long as the car will perform and "feel" right. But I believe it is a bit harder with a smaller displacement engine since there will be more likelihood of issues like turbo lag and achieveing a "natural" good engine sound.

Unless they make a M2 as special as 1M (limited in number, just with a manual or at least with a real good manual option, specific body parts and not similar/same of M Performance parts etc.), I know I won't get too much excited about it just because it will be the newer and/or more performant car. 1M is special and feels special while driving, has a presence on the road and in the hearts of car enthusiasts so I won't go for another BMW, for anything less than that whatever the numbers will be.

[IEDEI]

135is, 1M, or M2 (2M? lol) = 97% probability of what my car will be after my current lease is over.

YES i would definitely consider a 4-banger 360 hp M2. especially if it weighs 2800 pounds.

my big problem is that i still LOVE the shape of the E82. hate the way the F22 looks.

[Amnizu]

I already have a highly boosted 4 cylinder car, so short no. If I what a highly boost 4 cylinder sports car I'll go with one of the multitude of Japanese options that have been doing it for many more years with highly tunable platforms.

[Mdawood]

I wouldn't mind it turbo or not. As long as the driving experience is there. And that it comes in manual. If in fact the m2 does get the green light, I don't think the production will be limited.

[Mdawood]

And I won't sell/trade the 1m for it.

[uberschnell]

greater then 300hp, less then 3000lbs, plus RWD = winner, regardless of engine.

[Yellowceta]

I agree that certain power/torque minimums must be present to warrant interest. Going with small displacement and forced-induction would yield a great torque curve similar to the 1M's. That torque curve produces most of the fun for me when driving. My only worry is that they will try to separate the 2M from the M3/M4 crowd more severely than the 1M and M3 were. However, that is where the aftermarket crowd comes in

In the end, I'm not opposed to a 4 cylinder, but I'm not thinking of getting rid of the 1M. I would only add to my stable.

[EINSER M]

M2 oui!!!!!!!!!!

[BimmerMat135]

No way I will be pay that much for a 4cyl car. There are already many topic about all the cons of a 4cyl car versus a 6cyl. The only advantage of a 4cyl is the weight all the rest is much worst. So no 6cyl = no m2 for me.

[Artemis]

BMW N20 turbocharged straight-4 DOHC piston engine (N20B20) - Technical Training manual:
http://www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesfor...BIMMERPOST.pdf

[uberschnell]

The 4-banger in the 328i is surprisingly quick, and that's a heavy car.

On a much lighter car and tuned, the M2 could be surprisingly good.

My biggest worry then would be the electronic steering.

[Elsabor67]

I would have to see more specs and if it will or could compete against the CLA45 AMG and its 355hp. Also, what is powering the M235 racing car??? Maybe they can put that engine in the M2 with some "add-ons"

[Pete_vB]

If they do go to a 4 (or anything but a turbo 6) I think that will help the values of the 1M in the long run.

Personally I'd like less turbo lag in the next one- I think the short, agile chassis really favors an engine that reacts to the throttle just as fast, and I don't see them achieving that in a highly boosted 4 yet (in a few years with electric hybrid turbos maybe). So while I agree with the concept of pulling weight out of the nose and lightening the car, unless they can surprise me on the engine technology side I don't think I'd favor it as a total package.

What I'd do if I was on the development team: high strung, light weight, normally aspirated 6 of about 3 liters/ 375 hp. This would keep it slower than the M3, would give the throttle response to reward the chassis, and could save as much or more weight from the nose as a turbo 4: they could probably do a 3 liter today at not much over 250 lbs if they made it a priority.

Mileage/ CO2 would be the downside, but if there is one place that's an acceptable trade it's got to be in the smallest, lightest M car. So that would be my request (unlikely, I know) but we'll see what they come up with.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

What I'd do if I was on the development team: high strung, light weight, normally aspirated 6 of about 3 liters/ 375 hp. This would keep it slower than the M3, would give the throttle response to reward the chassis, and could save as much or more weight from the nose as a turbo 4: they could probably do a 3 liter today at not much over 250 lbs if they made it a priority.
Mileage/ CO2 would be the downside, but if there is one place that's an acceptable trade it's got to be in the smallest, lightest M car. So that would be my request (unlikely, I know) but we'll see what they come up with.

Never say never.

As recent history taught BMW and car aficionados, the 1M turned out to be a revitalizing vitamin for the ///M brand and also a rather unexpected cash cow for BMW. Good marks and thumbs up everywhere. So it is rather forseeable that BMW will roll out scenarios to (try to) emulate the 1M feat and its hype. Car journalists will inevitably pit the M2 against the 1M, currently still the benchmark of pocket rockets, rather than against the M235i.

If the 4-cyl M2 becomes a commercial success, it may unlock the next level: a limited edition hardcore M2 CSL, approaching M3/M4 territory price-wise. Not only for profitability reasons, but also for prestige: further spicing up things and giving the ///M brand image some extra boost, letting its colors shine.

Just wondering who, in the end, will be the kingmaker of an M2 CSL (if it ever comes to fruition): the M2 ...or the 1M ?

[discoboy1]

I dont see the logic behind selling a 235M and then doing a m2 with a 4 cylinder...

[ilikebmxbikes]

If the m2 is 4cl I will skip it and get an m4 or buy a m235i and try and source m235i racing parts for it.

[sparoz]

If it is a 4 cyl I would like to see a TT version of the B48 engine. That's technically 370hp-400hp.

[Redadair]

Nothing wrong with a highly tuned 4 cylinder. I have owned 2 WRX STi's and tuned the crap out of both. BMW 4 cylinder engines started BMW in North America in the 1600, 2002 and 2002tii. Should BMW decide to go with a 4 in the M2 it will be great.

As long as they fix the FU*King sound issues they are doing with the M5 and now M3/M4. Leave a good thing alone. I can see some moron sales people telling the M group the 4 cylinder should sound like and F18 fighter Jet or worse a V8 and then pipe it into the stereo. Please

[Mr Kleen]

Originally Posted by Artemis

(as we all know, ///M stands for ///Manual ).

Tell that the the majority of ///M buyers who opt for the DCT even when there's a manual option.