M2: would you mind a 4-cylinder layout ?

[Acheron83]

I have no doubts at all that it will be a variation of the N55 that sees itself into the M2/2M

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Acheron83

I have no doubts at all that it will be a variation of the N55 that sees itself into the M2/2M

Originally Posted by Ian///M

No, it is sure to be a potent N20 variation. I'd wager on that. It will be lighter and faster than a M235

The source quoting in July 2012 that "BMW M is investigating the concept of a completely reworked N20 based four cylinder" is reliable.

[Robin_NL]

Well if the M2 is going to be a 2 litre N20(?) based 4 potter:

-the 1M stays even more special as the only (non Z) small 6 cylinder //M car below a 3 series.
-I hope it has >360BHP and 200lbs less to compete and be even more fun than the 1M
-it's probably going to be an unlimted production car(?)
-it better be priced right...

Cheers
Robin

[Acetech]

A 4 cylinder has less potential for power than a 6, and being that I always get bored with stock power levels this would be a deal beaker for me. And show me the 4 cylinder that sounds better than a 6, especially at part throttle low revs.
Ultimately putting a 4 vs a 6 is watering it down and dissapoinent

[BMWJS]

The M2 is being developed with weight savings throughout. The weight savings of a 4 cyl vs. a 6 cyl does not offset the overall benefit of a 6 cyl in this car. I am absolutely against a 4 pot in the M2. I already have a deposit down for the first available build slot for the M2 or M235i Racing. If the M2 is a 4 cyl, I plan to withdraw. I don't believe the M235i Racing will be developed to be street legal or make it to the USA, but if it does, I'm ready!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by BMWJS

I don't believe the M235i Racing will be developed to be street legal or make it to the USA, but if it does, I'm ready!

See this post:

Originally Posted by Reedomn

FYI.......I emailed the contact on the flyer asking to purchase one for the track....here's the response I received...
"We cannot confirm when the car [M235i Racing] will be available for the US. We are working on that topic but I suppose it won’t happen before 2015."

[LeifW]

A 4-cyl M2 sounds awesome to me! If I didn't have a 1M, a 4 cyl M2 would be the car I would buy, if no street legal M235i racing was available.

Leif W.

[Dee Pee]

Short answer: yes.

Some would argue that there is the psychological issue of "stepping down" from 6 to 4 cylinders when moving into the M-range from the 220 and M235.

Forgive me if what I am about to say has been covered already...

I will submit Exhibit A: the E30 M3.

If I'm not having brainfart, I believe that this car always had a 4-cylinder S14B2x motor even while its civilian-configured counterparts moved into 6.

E30M3's only represented .73% of total E30 3-series sales which is an absolute infamnia with hindsight and probably a commercial disaster at the time.

The 1M has an even lower percentage of 1-series sales at .4% but it seems BMW learned some new tricks in regards to marketing evidenced by the number of hits you get upon googling "1M successor."

Would I buy a 4-banging M2?

Only if they did it the way everybody else in this thread has mentioned, with weight reduction, a manual transmission, and a chassis that didn't compromise. I want it to be even more raw than the 1M, if that's even possible. I NEED MORE COWBELL!

I think it can be done with 4 cylinders. Just keep the bureaucrats and bean-counters out of the mix, get liberal with the carbon fiber and aluminum, and I bet that BMW can score another hit like the 1M for the masses.

And that would be a good thing.






*source wikipedia
2,339,520 total E30 3 series built, 17,184 M3
1,547,751 total E87 1 series built, 6,309 1M

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Dee Pee

E30M3's only represented .73% of total E30 3-series sales which is an absolute infamnia with hindsight and probably a commercial disaster at the time.

Back in the day, the E30 M3 was the rebel/pirate of the BMW family. Extraordinary: out of the ordinary. A necessity serving another purpose (homologation of a competition race car). The 1M was marketed as if it relives that rebel idea (but without the homologation necessity).

And yes, those flared arches definitely are a cool feature, not only design wise, but also pretty functional (allows to sport some serious rubber). If you like the look of the 1M rear, you also like the look of the iconic Porsche 993 Turbo rear: wide stance (and vice versa). If the M2 does not feature flared arches (E30 M3 or 1M style), BMW M will disappoint a lot of aficionados, including yours truly.

"History
What makes the E30 M3 unique?
The E30 M3 is the BMW Motorsport-developed version of the E30 3 Series. Its S14 four-cylinder powerplant is a further development of the M10 unit and was chosen because of its compact dimensions. The chassis is based on the basic E30 3 Series design but has been thoroughly reworked by BMW Motorsport in every significant area. The reshaped body shares few panels with other E30 3 Series models.
Where was the E30 M3 first introduced?
The E30 M3 debuted at the 1985 Frankfurt motor show.
Where was the E30 M3 produced?
Because of the relatively high production numbers required to homologate the M3, production took place at the normal Munich-Milbertshofe factory instead of in the more limited Motorsport facility in Garching. However, unlike the normal E30 models, the M3's drivetrain was assembled by special teams, then mated to the chassis on the regular assembly line.
Why is the E30 M3 considered a homologation model?
The main impetus for the E30 M3’s existence was Group A racing, a production-based class that demanded that each race car share its core mechanical components with a road car, of which at least 5,000 examples had to be produced. Thus, BMW Motorsport designed the race car first, then applied the necessary changes to the road car in order to homologate the competition machine. The E30 M3 street version and E30 M3 competition version are therefore quite similar. For example, the widened fenders were needed to accommodate racing rubber on the competition cars but were not necessary for the more modest tires of the street version. However, fender width had to be identical between the road and race versions, so both share the same flared arches."
(source: http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=8)

Father and son encounter:

[rick propas]

For you younger folks, just bear in mind that what built the marque were 1.6 and 2.0 liter fours. At the time my 1970 2002 was a barnstormer.

While I love the inline 6s in my M Roadster and 1M, I would definitely go back to a 4 banger if it had the right chops, as long as they produce it while I am still capable of driving.

[robertm]

4cyl, 6 spd, 300 hp or more, 3000lbs or less, mechanical LSD. YES PLEASE

I don't want or care about power seats, idrive, sunroof, rev matching or piped sound.

[carchrism5]

I've tried selling the 1M and even turned my car back to stock to sell, but when it came down to it I just couldn't do it. I actually hope to keep my 1M for a long time, so in short I don't think I would trade it for an M2.

However depending on price, power and all that, I would consider a 4 cyl M2, but certainly wouldn't jump on it.

[OrangeCrush]

I will not buy a 4 cil M2.

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by uberschnell

greater then 300hp, less then 3000lbs, plus RWD = winner, regardless of engine.

This is true. If all this comes to pass, price will become the deciding factor for me.

[Venom]

I'm seriously surprised there haven't been more rumors with the M2. I thought they'd bore out the S55 a bit more for the M3/4 for more power but I was wrong there. I hope they will bore out the N20 for the S20? Otherwise both these engines won't have nearly as much tuner potential as this last generation did.

I am perfectly fine with a 4 cyl as long as it is 2800 lbs or less ala FRS/BRZ, has high tuning potential, and feels nimble. I can't see the masses jumping for this car when the new M4 has been hyped for so long and the M2 is due in 2015?

[Redadair]

My E30 M3 is a 4 cylinder. This is where M3's started.

[flinchy]

If it's an n20/s20 motor in it... How can it possibly be faster than an n55 235is (lsd etc)? Sure it could be able to handle a bit better with widebody, cf treatment, suspension... But it wouldn't have anywhere near the low and mid torque or power potential.. To get the n20 near 350-360bhp they'd be pushing it pretty far.. Where the n55 is just getting started there.

sounds too close to evo/sti specs minus 4wd.. Or like a rwd cla/a45. Too samey.

Ed: and wow.. 17000 e30 m3's built.. With the amount ive ever seen, you'd think there were more 1m's than m3's!

[M3 Adjuster]

S20 FOR THE WIN.


There is a reason the M3 went from a V8 back to V6... and it wasnt because of sonic qualities ! LOL.
And yet they managed to make more power than the old V8 too...

The ford Mustang returns with a 4 cyl ecoboost turbo.
305 hpp and 300 ft lbs from 2.0 L displacement.

Can BMW top this? OF COURSE!

6 cyl snobs (or BMW newbs) that can't see the writing on the wall of CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) and TURBOS should go buy an M235 or an M3/M4 now so they aren't disappointed when the M2 comes out with an S20.

With a very slight overbore to say.. 2.2L... a little M magic and and some lightweight materials like the CF roof, maybe the lightweight driveshaft from the new M3/M4... and voila.. sub 3000lb car... with 330-360 hp depending on displacement. Direct competition for the 4 cyl Mustang, STI, VW R32, Mitsu Evo, Audi 5 cyl motor, etc.. and helps keep the Corporate Fuel economy up as well.

Originally Posted by Ian///M

No, it is sure to be a potent N20 variation. I'd wager on that. It will be lighter and faster than a M235

Agreed...! Don't take ALL the action! I want some too!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Acetech

A 4 cylinder has less potential for power than a 6, and being that I always get bored with stock power levels this would be a deal beaker for me. And show me the 4 cylinder that sounds better than a 6, especially at part throttle low revs.
Ultimately putting a 4 vs a 6 is watering it down and dissapoinent

then what are you doing with a car with a 6 cyl motor. Go get a V8...! it has more potential for power... And sounds better! Show me a 6 cyl motor that sounds better than a V8 ?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by flinchy

If it's an n20/s20 motor in it... How can it possibly be faster than an n55 235is (lsd etc)? Sure it could be able to handle a bit better with widebody, cf treatment, suspension... But it wouldn't have anywhere near the low and mid torque or power potential.. To get the n20 near 350-360bhp they'd be pushing it pretty far.. Where the n55 is just getting started there.

sounds too close to evo/sti specs minus 4wd.. Or like a rwd cla/a45. Too samey.

Ed: and wow.. 17000 e30 m3's built.. With the amount ive ever seen, you'd think there were more 1m's than m3's!

only 5000 E30 M3 came to the US.

for a little EDUMACATION .... on how a car could possibly faster with less power...... See CAMARO Z-28 vs ZL-1

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/art...urns-2014.html

better Aero
better suspension
lower vehicle weight
Less unsprung weight
higher rev limit
LSD

BAM!

[BavarianN54]

I would rather see an I6 but the winds of change are here. A 4 wouldn't surprise me.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

only 5000 E30 M3 came to the US.

for a little EDUMACATION .... on how a car could possibly faster with less power...... See CAMARO Z-28 vs ZL-1

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/art...urns-2014.html

better Aero
better suspension
lower vehicle weight
Less unsprung weight
higher rev limit
LSD

BAM!

Yeah i'm just talking about acceleration/top speed

They could absolutely take the 4cyl faster from the factory... But that wont help it overtake the 6cyl's in potential, which should be a lot of what m's are about... Their ability to STAY a faster car than their non m brothers.