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      06-20-2012, 02:15 AM   #1
m7ammed
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Exclamation Car is dead!! (battery junction box)

Went out this morning, used the key to open the doors nothing!! I opend the door manually put in the key and there is no click sound (the one when you first enter the key). I then pressed the start butting and nothing, no lights on the dash nothing ... completely dead. I used a lead connecter with another car to charge the battery but still nothing. I can't even open the boot to check on the battery (no key hole plus euro spec doesn't have that boot button). BMW emergency are coming over and my car just went out of warranty a month back. I hope its just the batter

Anybody experienced this before?
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      06-20-2012, 02:30 AM   #2
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Pop your bonnet, use a battery charger on the terminals in the engine bay to give the vehicle enough power to open to boot/trunk. Then use another car to jump start yours in the meantime if you really need to use the car.

I think you need a new battery.

edit: I see you have a coupe... if you can't get enough power to the battery to open the boot, you may try to somehow get the rear seats folded down so you have access to the rear luggage compartment... then check the battery from there.
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      06-20-2012, 08:23 AM   #3
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My battery was not quite that dead on my Japanese SUV a couple weeks ago but it wouldn't start the car. I had inadvertantly left a light on inside the car for 4 days with it parked at the airport. The battery was 6 years old and would not take a charge.

The tip about the terminal in the engine bay is a good one. The SUV that jumped my SUV was a BMW and that is what we used. I attached to the positive terminal (after removing the cover) and a bolt on the strut tower. Worked great. You should even be able to charge from there.

I put batteries in this condition on a charger and give them a chance before replacing them. I've had them come back and work for several years and I've had them be gone and require replacement. Your's is new enough I think there is a chance it will come back. You need to identify, however, where the load came from that caused it to be so depleted. It is also possible the battery is shorted inside and then it will not be chargable or usable.

Your BMW wants to know about any battery replacement. Your options are to spend about $400 at the dealer for a battery and programming or to buy your own battery and do the programming yourself. You can also put a battery in without the programming but then the battery is likely to fail quickly (couple years). I'm about to code some other things on my car - I should have the necessary cable this week. If you want to look into this, I suggest you visit the b m w c o d i n g. c o m website (drop the spaces). It's the cheapest way to do the coding (I paid $99 for the cable and the software is "free"). There are also people who will do coding for you. You can save some money versus dealer prices but it will take more work on your part.

Jim
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      06-20-2012, 08:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD View Post
Your BMW wants to know about any battery replacement. Your options are to spend about $400 at the dealer for a battery and programming or to buy your own battery and do the programming yourself.
Something for me to look forward to.
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      06-20-2012, 08:45 AM   #5
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No programming is necessary for a battery replacement.

As far as not being able to get in the trunk, there is a positive terminal in the engine bay, so just pop the hood and jump start the car from there.
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      06-20-2012, 08:54 AM   #6
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Sure sounds like a dead batt to me. Did this happen suddenly?
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      06-20-2012, 09:41 AM   #7
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we tried the jump start with a regular car, and then emergency BMW X3 which didn't work at least he shifted into neutral so we were able to tow it at 10am.

I went back at 4 pm and before they started to try to open the boot, we discovered that the service guy left the key inside the car in the ignition and somehow the door was locked. The mechanic opened the door with a hanger (the window was not completely shut thank god) and was able to open it. We tried to start the car and started. They guys over there are scratching their heads saying that this has not happened before as usually jump starting the car would it least get it to unlock.
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      06-20-2012, 12:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
No programming is necessary for a battery replacement.
Not so sure about that.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704976
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      06-20-2012, 02:52 PM   #9
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2011 BMW 135i  [7.06]
I've done it, no problem.
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      06-20-2012, 03:03 PM   #10
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Exclamation Battery exploded in my trunk...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogart View Post
No programming is necessary for a battery replacement.

As far as not being able to get in the trunk, there is a positive terminal in the engine bay, so just pop the hood and jump start the car from there.
That is NOT true. This is what happens when you do not code the battery to the car...


Battery exploded in my trunk; Please read so this doesn't happen to your E9X.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...exploded+trunk
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      06-20-2012, 04:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
That is NOT true. This is what happens when you do not code the battery to the car...


Battery exploded in my trunk; Please read so this doesn't happen to your E9X.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...exploded+trunk
Yowza!

Good to know
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      06-20-2012, 07:21 PM   #12
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WOW... So many issues with this car. Reprogram a car for a battery.
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      06-21-2012, 12:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
That is NOT true.
+1

Read here
http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r...6HI-612100.htm
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      06-21-2012, 03:58 AM   #14
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BMW just called me to say there is nothing wrong with the car. They checked battery with a tester says its good. No faults on the car ECU. They say they can't find anything wrong with it. He said take it and use it and see if the issue comes up again.

UPDATE:They are updating the programing and will leave it there till Saturday and we'll see if the issue will come up then.
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      06-21-2012, 09:15 AM   #15
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Intermittant issues are the worst. While there may not be an issue with your car right now there certainly appears to have been previously. Waiting for it to appear again would not make me feel good.

With respect to battery replacement I think it is best to respect the system our cars have and register your battery. There are potentially two separate steps. If you replace your battery like for like, then all you need to do is register. From what I read, if you do this yourself the options are in "Tool32" and it is an easier process than most coding. If you switch from what I think of as a "normal" battery with an electrolyte that is free to move around to a AGM battery where the electrolyte is in a mat, then you need to code the car - do a bit more work. If you change the Amp-hours of the battery, you should code the car. That is done using NCSExpert, if you are doing it yourself, and you work in the CAS module of the car. The process involves hooking your car to your laptop using the OBDII port in the drivers footwell and a cable you have to buy. You run the "free" software on your computer to change the settings. NCSExpert involves downloading the existing module (CAS for this), editing the file, and uploading it back to the car. You want to save the original file just in case something doesn't go as planned. Tool32 appears to be a more typical program where you just find the setting you want to change and change it.

The BTtool, a cable with it's own software for a little under $300, will apparently register but not code. So you could do a like for like replacement but not switch the battery type or size.

I'm not sure if the battery exploded in the thread mentioned above because the car was not registered or coded for the battery replacement or because gas from the battery built up in the trunk and got ignited by a spark or possibly the special positive terminal meant to disconnnect the car in an emergency went off. Or the battery could have developed an internal short and both exploded and set off the protective device in the positive terminal (which may have prevented a fire).

I'm hoping to get several more years out of my battery but when I replace it, I plan to register it and recode if necessary. If I didn't register, I'm not sure exactly what issues it would cause but it doesn't seem like a risk I want to take. I don't want to spend $400 on a battery either but it seems like I will not need to. I just bought a "Gold" diehard, not their best or worst, for $120 for my SUV. Something like this and some work by me on the car to change settings seems very possible and significantly cheaper.

Jim
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      06-23-2012, 10:43 PM   #16
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Well the gremlins strike again …. I got a call late in the morning from BMW saying I should pick up the car in the afternoon and that everything was OK. Then I get another call in the afternoon saying I shouldn’t come, because when they wanted to start the car to get it to the washing area same issue again with zero power (and no terminal R as electricity as they call it). I went there half an hour before they closed to see if they discovered anything new. The electrician said he hit the area under the glove box and gave it a little shake and the car woke up from the dead. According to him this is where the “Junction Box” is. From what I understood, this junction box is where all the electronics connect together. **It seems like an expensive part to replace so I am hoping that they only need to secure some connection. My car is just one month out of warranty, they were saying if it needed replacement they would try to get the part cost under “Good Will” from BMW and that I would pay the labor.
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      06-24-2012, 11:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m7ammed View Post
Well the gremlins strike again …. I got a call late in the morning from BMW saying I should pick up the car in the afternoon and that everything was OK. Then I get another call in the afternoon saying I shouldn’t come, because when they wanted to start the car to get it to the washing area same issue again with zero power (and no terminal R as electricity as they call it). I went there half an hour before they closed to see if they discovered anything new. The electrician said he hit the area under the glove box and gave it a little shake and the car woke up from the dead. According to him this is where the “Junction Box” is. From what I understood, this junction box is where all the electronics connect together. **It seems like an expensive part to replace so I am hoping that they only need to secure some connection. My car is just one month out of warranty, they were saying if it needed replacement they would try to get the part cost under “Good Will” from BMW and that I would pay the labor.
Good luck. I had the JBE (Junction Box electronics) replaced in my E91 after repeated, but intermittent, low battery warnings and the 5 year old battery (which had checked out as OK) had to be replaced a few weeks later when the car had to be towed.

Tom
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      06-24-2012, 11:43 AM   #18
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I wonder IF you ever have had your windshield replaced before m7ammed? Bad seal? Then again you can't get much rain where your at. lol

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      06-24-2012, 03:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone
I wonder IF you ever have had your windshield replaced before m7ammed? Bad seal? Then again you can't get much rain where your at. lol

Dack
Actually they have discovered that one of the electric cables has actually melted the connecter !!! Its a cable running from the battery to the junction box. Took a pic of it on my other phone will post it later not sure if its clear.

This is a serious concern for me, as in my mind this could have actually caught fire since there was enough heat to deform and melt plastic.
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      06-24-2012, 04:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m7ammed View Post
Actually they have discovered that one of the electric cables has actually melted the connecter !!! Its a cable running from the battery to the junction box. Took a pic of it on my other phone will post it later not sure if its clear.

This is a serious concern for me, as in my mind this could have actually caught fire since there was enough heat to deform and melt plastic.

Its quite common on older BMW's....

I had a similar problem with my e39 battery cable melting in the trunk. It was all due to a loose battery cable, when they aren't tight they can cause high resistance and in turn cause a fire. Luckly I fixed mine before that happened. I also replaced the battery ground wire. IF you want to see what my cables looked like here is the thread...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=252856


Please keep us updated on what your problem and fix is.

Dack
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      06-24-2012, 04:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
That is NOT true. This is what happens when you do not code the battery to the car...


Battery exploded in my trunk; Please read so this doesn't happen to your E9X.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...exploded+trunk

From what I've read on that thread the battery didn't explode because the battery wasn't coded after replacement but rather because the wrong type of battery was used. See post #214. Sounds more like coding will extend the life of your battery (#357) but not cause or prevent the wrong type from exploding.

Still at the end of the day I was surprised at this thread and in the event I need a battery replaced I will probably just have the dealer order the battery and install/code it themselves even if it is expensive. I read somewhere in that thread that there are different battery types depending on what options you have from the car so I want them to just look at the existing battery that came straight from the factory order the exact one.
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      06-24-2012, 05:09 PM   #22
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Getting a battery replaced by the dealer is a good option. But I wouldn't do it because you think there is anything complicated about batteries. They differ by how the electrolyte is applied and by the cold cranking amps. Where the terminals are on the case also varies as does the physical dimensions. Dimensions are pretty well determined by size classes, however. Usually there is enough give in the connectors to handle minor difference in the position of the terminals.

So if you want to get your own battery, you need to determine the physical dimensions, the cold cranking amps, and the terminal location. Finally, you can choose between a "sealed" battery, meaning the electrolyte is liquid but is free to move around within the battery and a battery with the electrolyte in a mat or gel. The mat is the "AGM" type. I will probably just get a sealed battery of the same cold cranking amps and then the "coding" seems like it will be pretty easy.

You can save money but you have to do more work. Going to the dealer costs more but avoids issues and is simpler. I have a friend who tried just getting a battery then learned she needed coding and ended up paying more than many dealers would have charged. That seems like the worst option (she didn't talke to me until afterwards).

Jim
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