Harman Kardon vs standard sound system ...

[Pangloss]

Did my first top-down drive today and the HK audio sounded wonderful.

[kb135]

Originally Posted by Zeros and ones

has anyone noticed that when listening to the audio in the car is sounds fantastic but once you step out of the car the subs sound really distorted?

Yes! I've noticed it too. Really unimpressive from the outside. I have to turn it down when at stop lights and when showing the car to friends, as I'm embarrassed. But inside, the HK system is fantastic. Found it better than the middle of the range Hi-Fi system. Any solutions for the distortion when listening from the outside?

[032867]

I have purchased 15 brand new cars in my lifetime and if there is one thing I have learned after all these years is to order the car with everything you desire. You will never second guess yourself after you"ve had the car.An extra 750 or 1500 added is splitting hairs. the HK system is great.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by kb135

Yes! I've noticed it too. Really unimpressive from the outside. I have to turn it down when at stop lights and when showing the car to friends, as I'm embarrassed.

I hope you're joking.....?

If not, you need to get a life mate

[nato-main-man-5am]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

I hope you're joking.....?

If not, you need to get a life mate

No, I think these guys are serious. I can see the reasoning, though I really don't care what my stereo sounds like when I or anyone else hears it from outside the car. But I also don't trick out my car's visual appearance, because that doesn't make the driving more fun for me -- and I know I'm in the minority, there...

Originally Posted by 032867

I have purchased 15 brand new cars in my lifetime and if there is one thing I have learned after all these years is to order the car with everything you desire. You will never second guess yourself after you"ve had the car.An extra 750 or 1500 added is splitting hairs. the HK system is great.

I agree with your general view here, and also specifically that if one wants a single c. USD800 upgrade to improve the sound in the 1 series and doesn't plan to do more upgrades, the HK option is a good one.

It is certainly possible to better it, with a competent installer and more money.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by Nathan_h

It is certainly possible to better it, with a competent installer and about the same money.

Fixed...but indeed the sky is the limit.

[nato-main-man-5am]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Fixed...but indeed the sky is the limit.

Well, I haven't found an set of gear and professional installation I'd call a clear improvement on the HK system for under $1600. That's twice the money of the HK system. I'd be curious to hear about what you have in mind.

I replaced the factory amp in the HiFi system with the JBL MS-8 which I think was a big bang-for-the-buck improvement, but that's a $800 piece of gear + a $125 harness -- and of course doing the self install save a few hundred bucks. But even that setup, at retail for install and parts is $1200 easily. One might argue that the HK system is a better upgrade (for cheaper).

(But of course my path involves new speakers and amplification at some point, so that gets into the "sky's the limit" realm quickly.)

[Sinister Crayon]

For my money, I pulled the trigger on both the BMW Assist / BT and the HK in my car. I couldn't be happier. The Bluetooth is nice and I have ended up using it a lot more than I thought I would... definitely a HUGE improvement over a chintzy earpiece. That and listening to Podcasts via BT is pretty sweet as well... but I have to make sure I have the phone plugged into power first or I end up killing my battery

The HK is definitely not the best car stereo I have ever heard, but for my listening pleasure (everything from classical to industrial, punk to alternative, even some trance) the HK is pretty damned fine. The integration with the entire system is also nice as I have the nav and as such get nice visually good audio controls in the EQ screen that I can tweak to my hearts content. It's good pretty decent bass, good definition on the high end (enough that I've started to really notice the more highly compressed songs on my iPod) and gives a pretty decent sound stage.

Honestly though, I don't care what it sounds like outside the car... I don't spend an awful lot of time outside the car listening to the stereo. This is my car, my music, my stereo... I don't care if someone else hears it as well as me or not.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by Nathan_h

Well, I haven't found an set of gear and professional installation I'd call a clear improvement on the HK system for under $1600. That's twice the money of the HK system. I'd be curious to hear about what you have in mind.

I replaced the factory amp in the HiFi system with the JBL MS-8 which I think was a big bang-for-the-buck improvement, but that's a $800 piece of gear + a $125 harness -- and of course doing the self install save a few hundred bucks. But even that setup, at retail for install and parts is $1200 easily. One might argue that the HK system is a better upgrade (for cheaper).

(But of course my path involves new speakers and amplification at some point, so that gets into the "sky's the limit" realm quickly.)

Look on the 3 series forum for some of technic's budget upgrades. Dont get me wrong ms-8 is phenomenal but not required to achieve an on par level with the HK

[nato-main-man-5am]

I've read several of the larger threads on the 3 series forum. I must have missed those budget upgrades. I'll search some more.

Of course, just the installation price for a new set of speakers, before one even pays for the speakers themselves, is close to the price of the HK option from the factory, so if that is the bar (retail cost, installed) it gets tough. But I agree with your general sentiment, and if one can do the install oneself (not a fair apples-to-apples comparison, but a realistic one for many of us) that changes things considerably.

I was basing my comments on the prices quoted from local installers and musicar nw (whom I would have used, if he was closer to me). I'd love to see that I am wrong!

Off to search the 3 series some more....

[taibanl]

Yeah, im not really counting install prices as some of the budget upgrades are almost p+p

[nato-main-man-5am]

Fair enough, but then it's not a real comparison with the HK system because that includes the install price.

But I agree, for those with an interest, and a little capability and time, who would be reading this deeply into the topic, a self install P+P option is good to consider.

Pardon my crummy searching skills but can you point me to the particular topic on the 3 series forum that lists the budget upgrades people like? I found a few specific things in the audio area, but nothing that does an overview...except of speakers that mostly fit....

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by kb135

Any solutions for the distortion when listening from the outside?

Yes. Get back in.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Nathan_h

Fair enough, but then it's not a real comparison with the HK system because that includes the install price.

But I agree, for those with an interest, and a little capability and time, who would be reading this deeply into the topic, a self install P+P option is good to consider.

Pardon my crummy searching skills but can you point me to the particular topic on the 3 series forum that lists the budget upgrades people like? I found a few specific things in the audio area, but nothing that does an overview...except of speakers that mostly fit....

Really isn't a good list. Many upgrades have been done which one guy loved and one guy hated.

I believe I recommended against simply installing an amp. Still sucks.

[taibanl]

Google Technic budget upgrade site: e90post.com

For the record, I am a stronger advocate of more complete solutions ala Musicar kits, but cheaper options do exist.
Here's one example:

Originally Posted by Technic

The problem with your system is that it has a nasty EQ curve in the front OEM HU outputs. If you replace the front full range speaker with components you will notice an exagerated emphasis in the highs -made by design as there is no tweeters in your system.

This means that any decent aftermarket upgrade to your system will require a DSP processor to normalize that OEM EQ curve. That will add at least $200 to your total budget (Cleansweep).

You can try the OEM Alpine upgrade (amp, pair of OEM Logic7 speakers, harness) which is made specifically for this system for $500 or so, installation extra. That keeps the OEM woofer and the rear speakers in place and may keep your OEM audio system warranty if you let your local dealer install it -it is after all an OEM part, but it is European.

That will blow your $500 budget in no time.

For ~$750 I would do:

- SSMB8 woofers ($170)
- HiFi tweeters ($80)
- OEM tweeter pods ($60)
- Cleansweep ($210)
- Pioneer GM-6400F 4-channel amplifier ($140)
- Stereo harness ($65)

If you are close to Ft Lauderdale I would be willing to install all that for free just to show how the Stereo harness would work for a combo like that. That will make up for the extra $250 over your budget.

And that's an upgrade to a BASE system, if you already have HiFi, you don't need a cleansweep!

[VP Electricity]

I can tell you that I've created lower-cost systems on our dry-erase board than we offer. Here are some of the reasons that those systems didn't make it to our Certified Sound list:

- RPM noise from in-car testing

- Part only being available at that price while supplies last as part of a closeout

- Sounding poor or at least not good enough (to me) in the car

- Not fitting out of sight


I've considered using coaxes in the E82 to save money on the tweeter pods, because those are like 2X as much for the E82 than for the E92 - but good tweeters on-axis sound so goo, and it's one of the big sonic differentiators for our cars, that I am hesitant to leave that out just to save $200 or so.

I was also very excited about the Helix DSP PnP amp, but it can't push 8" woofers, so that's out.

No one has introduced signal correction for less than the 441dsp. That's still the lowest-cost unit on the market.

There was a forum member (udubbadger?) who tried an amp and SWS8 in a base Stereo E82 car with MB Quart 4/tweeter on deck power. He had to turn the treble down -4 to make it livable, and the bass down -6, IIRC. He didn't post that, I asked him after in conversation. So I decided that doing it without signal correction was not the way to go. (That wasn't "good" - that was livable).

[nato-main-man-5am]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Google Technic budget upgrade site: e90post.com

I'll use Yahoo search (these days that Bing engine plus the Yahoo interface is working well for me) and see what good results I find from folks who have done and heard many installs (like technic) say.

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Yes. Get back in.

+1. And drive.

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Really isn't a good list. Many upgrades have been done which one guy loved and one guy hated.

Yeah, that is the challenge, but paying attention to people that have done multiple installs and heard many systems helps.

I believe I recommended against simply installing an amp. Still sucks.

That makes sense, in terms of most impact/bang for buck. I installed a MS-8 with technic's awesome harness, and *that* made a very nice improvement. But I am hungry for more.

I probably need to both replace all the existing drivers, and get more amplification. Saying that is simple.

Deciding what, when, and how, is that I am contemplating.

[nato-main-man-5am]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I can tell you that I've created lower-cost systems on our dry-erase board than we offer. Here are some of the reasons that those systems didn't make it to our Certified Sound list:

- RPM noise from in-car testing

- Part only being available at that price while supplies last as part of a closeout

- Sounding poor or at least not good enough (to me) in the car

- Not fitting out of sight


I've considered using coaxes in the E82 to save money on the tweeter pods, because those are like 2X as much for the E82 than for the E92 - but good tweeters on-axis sound so goo, and it's one of the big sonic differentiators for our cars, that I am hesitant to leave that out just to save $200 or so.

No one has introduced signal correction for less than the 441dsp. That's still the lowest-cost unit on the market.

Yeah, since I have the middle (HiFi) system, I've got good bones to work with on my e82. And making it "invisible" is a requirement for me.

[taibanl]

I chose the above post because it was specifically targeted at achieving results UNDER the HK price.

1) Ken...do you sell something for $875 for Hifi systems that will compete with HK/L7? I think you could...you could even market it specifically to new car buyers! (Not sure about F30)

2) @ Nathan, just use that search string, it works, Technic has been asked countless times to spec budget upgrades and he always nicely complies. He has done a few different flavors though, so look around to see what suits your needs.

[mrow]

Originally Posted by Gravitron

Sorry to make my first post on here a negative one, but the standard sound system is absolute rubbish. I just got a 2010 135i Convertible and everything was great until I tried to listen to some music with the top down. It sounds like someone is playing an 80s boombox underwater. The speakers are all positioned in strange locations and there is nothing that points up to head/ear level. The lack of tweeters on the A-pillar is baffling as well. Not sure how I'm going to get around this without running into some warranty issues.

There is an Alpine OEM retrofit the BMW offers in Europe that you can get shipped over here and either install yourself or have your dealer or other car audio place install and it will not void your warranty. There is a pretty big tread about it in this section. I looked in to doing it when I still had my early 2011 128i which had the non hifi shit stereo.