Introduction & Help finding my first BMW :)

[c1pher]

A classic BMW.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

Good ones are hard to come by, and when you do, you will pay to get one. Mine is a perfect example. I had convinced myself that I wanted to sell, so I put it in the classifieds for $18500 (2011 DCT, 17k). Within a week I had a full asking price offer from a guy in Chicago. Not bad for a car we bought for 37500 7 years ago. Ultimately, I decided that I'd miss it too much and even at that amount it isn't worth selling, so I kept it.

The thing is that they are genuinely irreplaceable. There is nothing even remotely similar that you can buy new today. Some will say that the 2-Series is similar, in fact it is better. The truth is that the 2-Series is driver-disconnected just like almost every other car from this manufacturer today, plus bigger. You'd really have to go to a "hot hatch" to get some of the same connectedness, or maybe even a Miata, but those cars are vastly different.

There is something special that my 135is Convertible has, that even my M2 does not, and I enjoy driving the 135is as much as I do the M2, and in some cases I prefer it to the M2.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by champignon

It's kind of funny to be reading this thread; no disrespect meant to the OP.

The marketplace has been telling us that these 1-Series cars aren't worth jack shit for at least the last couple of years. Any highfalutin expectation that these cars would ultimately be valuable has been repeatedly shot down.

And yet, you can't find a good one, or at least not easily.

Someone please explain this to me.

That’s why they will increase in value. The beat down ones will of course be cheap and it will cost a good bit to bring them back to where they need to be. If you look at car auctions, cars that are numbers matching, original or OEM parts and in immaculate condition will fetch a great bit more money. If they have low miles or are limited edition, they go for even more. That’s why I kind of chuckle when people say the 135is isn’t worth more than a standard 135i, but every auction I watch where the factory only built a few of something, the get more money on the auction block. Yes you could copy a car with all the options but it wasn’t originally built that way.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by champignon

It's kind of funny to be reading this thread; no disrespect meant to the OP.

The marketplace has been telling us that these 1-Series cars aren't worth jack shit for at least the last couple of years. Any highfalutin expectation that these cars would ultimately be valuable has been repeatedly shot down.

And yet, you can't find a good one, or at least not easily.

Someone please explain this to me.

I'll take a shot...

Limited numbers, limited market, auto unappreciated & harder to sell vs 6MT & DCT, old enough to have higher mileage.

So people looking for specific transmission, color combo, options & interior have to pay a premium. An auto, high mileage car is budget basement bargain.

Oh and most BMWs that aren't M cars sell at a serious discount 5-10 years after initial sale. It'll be another 5-10 years before they are appreciated for what they are, a renewed version of the 2002 with a sprinkling of e46 magic dust.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I'll take a shot...

Limited numbers, limited market, auto unappreciated & harder to sell vs 6MT & DCT, old enough to have higher mileage.

So people looking for specific transmission, color combo, options & interior have to pay a premium. An auto, high mileage car is budget basement bargain.

Oh and most BMWs that aren't M cars sell at a serious discount 5-10 years after initial sale. It'll be another 5-10 years before they are appreciated for what they are, a renewed version of the 2002 with a sprinkling of e46 magic dust.

The comparison to the 2002 and the e46 is appealing, however I think somewhat flawed. I actually owned a 1973 2002, which was my first ever car. It had crank windows, no A/C, and no radio. It also had very little power (the non tii version) and a 0-60 time of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 seconds. It was a sporty car, nonetheless.

These earlier BMWs had way less in the way of electronics and other complicated stuff that can break and cost very serious cash to fix. They were basically analog cars.

Maybe the secondary market will step up to the plate and produce some parts at much lower cost when these things break in the 1-Series, however 10 years out from production I think that a lot of them are going to be very uneconomical to keep running. The 1M will be an exception due to its collectible status, but even if a garden variety 1-Series by some stroke of luck is worth $15K 10 years after production, keeping it running and on the road, unless you are a mechanic or have a close friend or relative who is, could be a real challenge.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

That’s why they will increase in value. The beat down ones will of course be cheap and it will cost a good bit to bring them back to where they need to be. If you look at car auctions, cars that are numbers matching, original or OEM parts and in immaculate condition will fetch a great bit more money. If they have low miles or are limited edition, they go for even more. That’s why I kind of chuckle when people say the 135is isn’t worth more than a standard 135i, but every auction I watch where the factory only built a few of something, the get more money on the auction block. Yes you could copy a car with all the options but it wasn’t originally built that way.

The 135is could end up being considered a classic car after a few more years, distinct from the other 135i vehicles. I certainly hope so, being as I own one :-)

As I have said before, I think a large part of why this could happen is that owners (as a group) may tend to treat them better, use them less, and keep them as 2nd or 3rd, or "weekend" cars, due to the perceived rarity. Most of the rest of the 1-Series cars, due to their reduced value, will end up as first cars for young people, or chosen for their cost not for their attributes.

If this happens and if at 10 years of age the average 135is has, say, 30,000 miles on it vs. likely 80 or 100K miles on the more usual 135i, that will contribute to the idea that these are classic cars, distinct from the rest of the series.

[captain slowly]

Originally Posted by champignon

The comparison to the 2002 and the e46 is appealing, however I think somewhat flawed. I actually owned a 1973 2002, which was my first ever car. It had crank windows, no A/C, and no radio. It also had very little power (the non tii version) and a 0-60 time of somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 seconds. It was a sporty car, nonetheless.

These earlier BMWs had way less in the way of electronics and other complicated stuff that can break and cost very serious cash to fix. They were basically analog cars.

Maybe the secondary market will step up to the plate and produce some parts at much lower cost when these things break in the 1-Series, however 10 years out from production I think that a lot of them are going to be very uneconomical to keep running. The 1M will be an exception due to its collectible status, but even if a garden variety 1-Series by some stroke of luck is worth $15K 10 years after production, keeping it running and on the road, unless you are a mechanic or have a close friend or relative who is, could be a real challenge.

Funny, I had a 1973 2002 as well. Mine had an engine built by Korman with a bigger cam and two sidedrafts, and I would still call it sloooow, but fun.
In any case, the 2002 was just as complicated (or not) as everything else for sale in that era. Everything was analog in 1973. So, the 135i is certainly no Honda Accord, but I don't think its that much different than everything out now.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by captain slowly

Funny, I had a 1973 2002 as well. Mine had an engine built by Korman with a bigger cam and two sidedrafts, and I would still call it sloooow, but fun.
In any case, the 2002 was just as complicated (or not) as everything else for sale in that era. Everything was analog in 1973. So, the 135i is certainly no Honda Accord, but I don't think its that much different than everything out now.

True, but a Honda Accord is presumably way more reliable, mechanically and electronically, than any modern BMW. When the Accord breaks, it won't put you in the poorhouse paying for the repairs. Also, BMW has a way of producing parts where you end up having to buy a whole mechanism, rather than just some small part of it that breaks. In some cases, 3rd party manufacturers have stepped into that void and will sell you only the small piece of plastic or whatever that you need. Maybe with greater use of 3D Printing, some of these issues will be solved by outside manufacturers or even owners.

[Colin Len]

Thanks everyone for the comments, help and commentary. I love the value discussions. Especially because I've been thinking about that a lot recently with the used Honda market. Some cars people thought would never have much value are not only holding value but increasing, some to a pretty extreme extent. I'm still a 1er novice but so far I'm thinking it may have the same potential for value down the road - not crazy value like an 1M but enough value to keep the good examples well cared for and appreciated instead of tossed aside.

Went and test drove a 135i yesterday. I could only find one 2011+ that was local: https://www.carmax.com/car/16128195

I definitely need to go drive a few more, but here were my thoughts on the test drive:
- This one was a little beat and over-priced. Interior was filthy, front bumper had some paint which had chipped off, wheels had curb marks. After the test drive there was some smoke/steam coming out from under the hood. Salesman said it was whatever they used to clean/dress the engine when they cleaned it. I'm pretty sure there's an oil leak as it also smelled a bit off when I fired it up and idled it prior to test drive.
- I'm now 99.99% certain a 6spd is a must. The DCT worked OK but still just felt like driving an automatic to me. I don't doubt at all that it can shift faster than me or that if my primary purpose was track and laptimes that it may be the better choice. But for around town I think it saps the soul from the car.
- Backseat room was nonexistant. I had heard 135's were not very bad so I was surprised by this. Hopefully it's just the verts and that the coupe has a bit more room back there.
- I was a little disappointed in the interior. It felt cheaper, no, maybe not cheaper but just older than I'd expected. I'm not looking for luxury but am used to budget Japanese cars and was expecting more from this Bimmer.
- Not as fast as I was expecting. Was powerful but did not feel "fast" in terms of acceleration. Maybe I just didn't push it hard enough to feel it's full potential.

So, yeah, I definitely need to start test driving any ones that pop up locally because without more 1on1 experience I won't know the difference between what's normal and what's a problem.

Originally Posted by champignon

The thing is that they are genuinely irreplaceable. There is nothing even remotely similar that you can buy new today. Some will say that the 2-Series is similar, in fact it is better. The truth is that the 2-Series is driver-disconnected just like almost every other car from this manufacturer today, plus bigger. You'd really have to go to a "hot hatch" to get some of the same connectedness, or maybe even a Miata, but those cars are vastly different.

There is something special that my 135is Convertible has, that even my M2 does not, and I enjoy driving the 135is as much as I do the M2, and in some cases I prefer it to the M2.

A drivers car is exactly what I'm looking for. I have a 92 Integra track car and an 04 Impreza with STI suspension so that should be an indication that I'm pretty focused on handling over power or luxury, lol.