BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-08-2014, 04:56 AM   #1
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Question Need help on choosing staggered or square setup

Did an experiment last week, and switched my 255/35 and 225/40 RE-11's from front to rear, with 10mm spacers in the front. No rubbing at all on the street. I run -3.2 camber in the front all summer long on street/track, and -2.1 in the rear.

This resulted in very good turn in at moderate speeds, but terrible tramlining/twitchiness on the highway. Cannot isolate if it was the better grip in the front, smaller/stiffer sidewalls in the front, skimpy tires in the rear, or current bizarre alignment specs (see next post). Over all, I did not like it at all though. I went back to standard setup this week 225/40 fronts 255/35 rear with same alignment for now, and this got rid of the tramlining.

I jut got my hands on a second set of style 261 RIMS for my 135 (18x7.5 + 18x8.5). Just finished fixing curb rash on all of them. Now with two sets of these RIMS, I face the dilemma of either:

#1 - going for a single 255/35 square setup for both street and track. Dont know how the car will behave on the street with that setup. I hope it will not start tramlining/following ruts in the road. I prefer something civilized, and the 225/40 + 255/35 RE-11's did rather well on the street.

#2 - going for two staggered 225/40 + 255/35 sets (one for street/ one for track). I found a good deal on an almost new Michelin PSS staggered street set for $650CAD. For my track setup, I would probably buy a set of Dunlop ZII's, Yoko AD48, or something more hard core like Yoko AO48, Toyo R888, Nitto NT01 (streetable R Comp category). I have about 15 track days including a 2-day intensive HPDE under my belt).

What would you guys do, and why?

Thanks.
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2014, 05:00 AM   #2
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Here are my current alignments specs, which Im not sure I like. Will change the front and rear toe on next tire change. Likely to be 0 to .04 in the front, and .08 to .12 in the rear.

__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2014, 06:31 AM   #3
3002 tii
Lieutenant General
3002 tii's Avatar
2272
Rep
12,559
Posts

Drives: Z4 M, X5, GX460
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (99)

Garage List
Why not just test it out? Buy the 255's first and drive around with wider square. If it's manageable for street, keep it and don't bother buying 225's to complete the package. If you don't like it, run staggered.
__________________
Follow for latest mods
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2014, 06:56 AM   #4
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Why not just test it out? Buy the 255's first and drive around with wider square. If it's manageable for street, keep it and don't bother buying 225's to complete the package. If you don't like it, run staggered.
Thanks for the suggestion! That is an awesome idea!

I actually located two used 255/35 Michelin Pilot for $100 locally. Will mix and match with my rear 255/35 RE-11's, and see how this feals on the street and on the track next week.

That is a low cost and worthwhile experiment.
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2014, 07:00 AM   #5
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
459
Rep
4,531
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

So let me try to wrap my head around this. If you go square tires, you're planning running 255s on a 7.5" wheel?

Or are you mixing/matching the wheels you have to create 8.5" squared wheels?
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2014, 07:06 AM   #6
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
So let me try to wrap my head around this. If you go square tires, you're planning running 255s on a 7.5" wheel?

Or are you mixing/matching the wheels you have to create 8.5" squared wheels?
Option #2 ;-) mixing 255/35R18 tires (Michelin Pilot and RE-11) on 18x8.5 ET52 RIMS (from both style 261 sets I now own). They fit in the front with a 10 mm spacer and current -3.2* camber with no rubbing.
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2014, 07:10 AM   #7
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
459
Rep
4,531
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Option #2 ;-) mixing 255/35R18 tires (Michelin Pilot and RE-11) on 18x8.5 ET52 RIMS (from both style 261 sets I now own). They fit in the front with a 10 mm spacer and current -3.2* camber with no rubbing.

Interesting. I'm having a bear of a time running 17x8.5 ET40 + 5mm spacer (to clear my coilover) with 245 ZIIs.

(This is when I still have -3*)



Appreciate 0
      05-08-2014, 08:04 AM   #8
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Love the stance of your 128i. Very little body roll too, from that last picture!
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
Appreciate 0
      05-11-2014, 08:39 PM   #9
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

I noticed from feedback of forum members that some of you bought a second set of staggered wheels, and used your four 18x7.5 RIMS for a street setup with 255/40R18 tires, and four 18x8.5 RIMS with 235/40R18 tires for your track setup. Other interesting fact is that its almost impossible to find R-comp tires larger than 235/40 that fit on 18x8.5" RIMS.

I got my hands on used 255/35R18 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP ("Zero Pressure"/RunFlats) for $100, that I put in the front for now. I still have my rear 255/35R18 RE-11's. Both front and rear are close to the wear bars. My intention is to test this size on the street and on the track, and decide if I like it. So far, they feel great on the street, and the car stance looks mean (like a baby NASCAR stock car). The stiffer sidewalls and the soft compound of the Michelin runflats feels good, and in fact much better than the worn out 225/40 RE11's in the front. Noise and harshness is reduced, there is almost no tramlining, and turn-in is sharper.

I will also try switching from front PS to rear RE-11s (both 255/35R18), as the MAX performance Michelin's in the front may get destroyed at the 1st track event versus the Extreme Performace RE-11's.

I must say I love the look and fell of the square 255/35R18, and leaning towards running this setup full time, on EHP tires (ZII's, RE-11's, R-S3's, or AD08R's) versus skinnier R-comps.

I may end up running the 255/35R18 square setup for another year on stock suspension. I would run a few more events, get more experience on different tracks, upgrade the driver before moving on to R-comps, and upgraded suspension.
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 05-11-2014 at 09:11 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2014, 03:05 PM   #10
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

I tried my mis-matched 255/35R18 squared setup on the track for three 20-minute sessions yesterday evening. The local ICAR track (old airport track on cement pavement) was wet - it was raining for the first session.

I took pressure readings on my front tires before and after each session.

I started out with 32PSI cold front and rear. First session was on a wet track, I hardly got any heat into my tires. 2nd and 3rd sessions were on an almost dry track. With more speed and heat into the tires, this is where things got interesting, and Id like your educated feedback on.

Front tires (Michelin Pilot Sport RunFlats) only went up by 2PSI, and rears (Bridgestone RE-11) by 6PSI. This is the opposite of what I was getting with my previous staggered setup (255/40R18 & 255/35R18 RE-11's). During these previous track days, the fronts were obviously getting overworked. The fronts use to go up by 6-10PSI after a 20 minute session on the dry. Now, the emphasis seems to have shifted to the back. Maybe the sidewalls in the Run Flats, and the lower 35 profile are keeping the front tires from rolling over and working harder. The rears are now working & sliding a little more.

For the first time at this track, I experienced no understeer, but the rear end was a little more twitchy. There was no rolling over, onto the edges of the front tires or top of sidewalls.

Do you guys think I should reduce the front camber (-3.2* and 0 toe) now that the meatier 255/35R18 tires seem to be staying more flat, and building up less heat?

Ideally, I know I should be doing pyrometer temperature readings across the tread to determine ideal camber setting, but what would you start off with?

Ive made a decision: No R-comps for now. Ill be sticking to a nice 255/35R18 extreme performance square street tire setup, until I "upgrade the driver" (more lapping and driving events).
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 05-15-2014 at 03:27 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2014, 07:30 PM   #11
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Finally decided to order a square set of 255/35R18 AD08R, but they are back order until mid to end of June over here in Quebec, Canada. If they dont get here by then, my tire shop will allow me to fallback to ZII's, or R-S3's.

Will try to stretch my mismatched RE-11 (front) and Michelin Pilot Sports (rear) until then. Both are at the wear bars.

I did a track day with nine 20-minutes session today with this setup. Had a blast and got comfortable with the 255/35R18 and adjusted hot pressure until tires stabilized at 32 PSI front and 34 PSI rear.
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2014, 12:59 AM   #12
John_01
Colonel
John_01's Avatar
Australia
232
Rep
2,643
Posts

Drives: E90 325i, E82 135i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Finally decided to order a square set of 255/35R18 AD08R, but they are back order until mid to end of June over here in Quebec, Canada. If they dont get here by then, my tire shop will allow me to fallback to ZII's, or R-S3's.
Those AD08 should be really wide with 9.9" tread width according to tire rack. The other options are narrower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
I did a track day with nine 20-minutes session today with this setup. Had a blast and got comfortable with the 255/35R18 and adjusted hot pressure until tires stabilized at 32 PSI front and 34 PSI rear.
Do you know how much did the pressure increase over cold PSI? Did you find the fronts getting greasy as the temperature increased?
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2014, 06:11 AM   #13
dcaron9999
Major
dcaron9999's Avatar
Canada
155
Rep
1,409
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i M package
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mirabel, Quebec

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
Those AD08 should be really wide with 9.9" tread width according to tire rack. The other options are narrower.
Thanks for the heads up. Im sure I checked width against RE-11 and Pilot Sport that Im running now, and they all seem very similar. I will do a sanity check again.

Edit: According to Tirerack.com,
RE11's have 10.2" sectional width and 9.4" tread width.
Pilot Sport's have 10.2" , and TBD.
RS3's have 10.2" and 9.5".
AD08R's have 10.1" and 9.9".

Looks like the AD08R's has ~0.1" smaller sectional width than most others, but ~0.5" wider tread width than the RE11's or RS3's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
Do you know how much did the pressure increase over cold PSI? Did you find the fronts getting greasy as the temperature increased?
The tires did get greasy with most drastic change at the end of the 1st session naturally (pressure rose about 6-8PSI). As the day and track got warmer. I had to remove another 2PSI in the rear tires at one point. Eventually, hot pressure hovered at around 33f and 35r at the end of the sessions, and I left it at that.
__________________
2011 X3 35i with M pack + 2011 135i w/6SPMT | 255 square tire setup | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Diff lock down bracket | Bilstein B8+Swift SpecR springs+H&R FSB | CDV delete | BMS Oil Tstat bypass | ER FMIC & CP | N54Tuning DP | GC Street Camber Plates | M3 FCA +guide rods+RSFB's+Tranny mounts | Manzo toe arms | Cobb Stg2 agressive tune | Hawk DTC70 brake pads | RB SS brake pistons | Goodridge SS brake lines | Custom brake cooling ducts

Last edited by dcaron9999; 05-20-2014 at 08:03 AM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST