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      03-05-2017, 03:23 PM   #1
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Anyone use the CSF upgraded oil cooler?

Looking to do some cooling upgrades before I hit the track this season. The CSF radiator gets great reviews and is a must for me, however the oil cooler presents a different problem. Since I have an N55 car it seems like the stock cooler might actually be able to keep up assuming just the radiator were upgraded. I would consider upgrading the oil cooler anyways if there we re actually a reasonably priced upgrade out there.

With that in mind while perusing CSFs site I noticed they show the CSF cooler CSF #8042 as being compatible for use in the 135i as an engine oil cooler. It does seem as though it would be a bolt on affair with no changing of lines.

Has any one used one of these and have any experience ?
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      03-05-2017, 04:42 PM   #2
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I have good results with this:

http://www.burgertuning.com/sport_oil_cooler_valve.html

My oil temperature stays below 250f. The highest it has reached is 245f. Even with 90f+ outdoor summer temps.

This is with the stock M Sport package oil cooler and upgraded FMIC.
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      03-05-2017, 05:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo v6 View Post
I have good results with this:

http://www.burgertuning.com/sport_oil_cooler_valve.html

My oil temperature stays below 250f. The highest it has reached is 245f. Even with 90f+ outdoor summer temps.

This is with the stock M Sport package oil cooler and upgraded FMIC.
That valve simply forces the stock thermostat to open all the time. IMHO that's not a good solution (for a street car even) and definitely wouldn't change anything at the track where the oil thermostat is open anyways. In a track situation you are completely relying on the cooler to keep things under check (where it seems marginal on the N55 and inadequate on the n54).
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      03-05-2017, 10:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
Looking to do some cooling upgrades before I hit the track this season. The CSF radiator gets great reviews and is a must for me, however the oil cooler presents a different problem. Since I have an N55 car it seems like the stock cooler might actually be able to keep up assuming just the radiator were upgraded. I would consider upgrading the oil cooler anyways if there we re actually a reasonably priced upgrade out there.

With that in mind while perusing CSFs site I noticed they show the CSF cooler CSF #8042 as being compatible for use in the 135i as an engine oil cooler. It does seem as though it would be a bolt on affair with no changing of lines.

Has any one used one of these and have any experience ?
Palmer 65f?:
http://datazap.me/u/banks334/palmer-...og=0&data=5-18

Limerock 88f and humid:
http://datazap.me/u/banks334/track-d...og=0&data=4-17

As you can see, temps weren't an issue at all at Palmer. 200load custom cobb tune. Stock cooling. Running distilled water and water wetter.

You can see limerock in 88f weather was pushing the stock cooling systems capacity. Water temps are higher on avg and oil temps have exceeded the thermostat range of 250f. They honestly aren't bad at all though. As a comparison, there was an n54 there that day with er dual competition oil coolers and he couldn't keep oil temps under 280 for more than 10minutes. He kept having to pull off track (modest tune 18psi).

N55 does really well with cooling compared to n54s. Im considering a 26row oil cooler for tracking in 90f+. Hopefully dme tuning helps gets coolant temps down a bit or I'll consider a radiator too eventually. The car is 100% fine stock for anything <85f ambient.
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      03-05-2017, 11:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
Palmer 65f?:
http://datazap.me/u/banks334/palmer-...og=0&data=5-18

Limerock 88f and humid:
http://datazap.me/u/banks334/track-d...og=0&data=4-17

As you can see, temps weren't an issue at all at Palmer. 200load custom cobb tune. Stock cooling. Running distilled water and water wetter.

You can see limerock in 88f weather was pushing the stock cooling systems capacity. Water temps are higher on avg and oil temps have exceeded the thermostat range of 250f. They honestly aren't bad at all though. As a comparison, there was an n54 there that day with er dual competition oil coolers and he couldn't keep oil temps under 280 for more than 10minutes. He kept having to pull off track (modest tune 18psi).

N55 does really well with cooling compared to n54s. Im considering a 26row oil cooler for tracking in 90f+. Hopefully dme tuning helps gets coolant temps down a bit or I'll consider a radiator too eventually. The car is 100% fine stock for anything <85f ambient.
In general this makes me feel better the logs don't look too bad. 2 questions:
1) Is this from a DCT car or 6MT?
2) What run group and how hard would you say you are running it?

I ask because:
A) I have a DCT and in terms of cooling they are hampered in two ways relative to 6MT. First off they require additional cooling (through the radiator) for the DCT, and they also have another gear which tends to keep the engine more on boil all the time.
B) I typically will run in an advanced run group and tend to push the car very hard (sometimes too hard )
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      03-06-2017, 06:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
In general this makes me feel better the logs don't look too bad. 2 questions:
1) Is this from a DCT car or 6MT?
2) What run group and how hard would you say you are running it?

I ask because:
A) I have a DCT and in terms of cooling they are hampered in two ways relative to 6MT. First off they require additional cooling (through the radiator) for the DCT, and they also have another gear which tends to keep the engine more on boil all the time.
B) I typically will run in an advanced run group and tend to push the car very hard (sometimes too hard )

Upper intermediate and the car has a manual transmission.

MHD for n55 only recently defined the tables for the water pump. Custom tunes are starting to be flashed that run cooler despite higher boost. I'll find out this summer how well it works on track. You can upgrade you're radiator but a custom tune that spins the water pump faster helps too to extract additional heat from the head...

Best bet is to track it and see what you need. You'll be fine stock though for now.

Last edited by bNks334; 03-06-2017 at 08:16 AM..
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      03-06-2017, 11:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
That valve simply forces the stock thermostat to open all the time. IMHO that's not a good solution (for a street car even) and definitely wouldn't change anything at the track where the oil thermostat is open anyways. In a track situation you are completely relying on the cooler to keep things under check (where it seems marginal on the N55 and inadequate on the n54).
I can tell you at button willow on a 90 degree day I could barely do one lap without my oil temps touching 280. Stock ppk flash, fbo, stock coolant, heater on full blast. My car is DCT. The radiator on DCT/at cars has two separate circuits, one for the motor, and one for the transmission heat exchanger, so we may see increasing temps in less severe scenarios compare to MT cars.

I think the csf radiator may be the best first modification, then oil cooler. If that doesn't work then I would consider replacing the trans heat exchanger with a stand alone cooler, then I could run a MT csf radiator which would now be cooling engine only, and then upgraded oil cooler.

I'm hoping the radiator upgrade will do the trick. As I would prefer not to plumb a trans cooler.

Would love to here how the csf oil cooler performs. Such a simple install.

Last edited by houtan; 03-06-2017 at 12:05 PM..
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      03-06-2017, 12:09 PM   #8
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If you're going to track it you need an upgraded oil cooler. You'll also need some upgraded brake lines, brakes, fluid. I use ER and it worked because i had limp mode issues first time at the track.
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      03-06-2017, 06:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
Upper intermediate and the car has a manual transmission.

MHD for n55 only recently defined the tables for the water pump. Custom tunes are starting to be flashed that run cooler despite higher boost. I'll find out this summer how well it works on track. You can upgrade you're radiator but a custom tune that spins the water pump faster helps too to extract additional heat from the head...

Best bet is to track it and see what you need. You'll be fine stock though for now.
I appreciate the input!

See houtan's post below, I think it seems its marginal for the DCT. But like anything there are lots of variables that go into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan View Post
I can tell you at button willow on a 90 degree day I could barely do one lap without my oil temps touching 280. Stock ppk flash, fbo, stock coolant, heater on full blast. My car is DCT. The radiator on DCT/at cars has two separate circuits, one for the motor, and one for the transmission heat exchanger, so we may see increasing temps in less severe scenarios compare to MT cars.

I think the csf radiator may be the best first modification, then oil cooler. If that doesn't work then I would consider replacing the trans heat exchanger with a stand alone cooler, then I could run a MT csf radiator which would now be cooling engine only, and then upgraded oil cooler.

I'm hoping the radiator upgrade will do the trick. As I would prefer not to plumb a trans cooler.

Would love to here how the csf oil cooler performs. Such a simple install.
I agree all of my research seems to indicate that water temps need to be dealt with first and foremost, certainly on the automatic/dct cars. I am going to run a CSF radiator for sure, that was never a question. Everyone that I have read that uses it has fantastic results, and for the price its a no-brainer.

Where I am struggling is... what to do for the oil cooler. One part of me wants to just run it as-is (just as bNks334 suggests). I *might* never actually need it in the first place, and any time you move away from OEM parts my experience is you add one more point of potential problem. Not to mention it costs nothing to do nothing
However on the flip side it is fairly well known that the N5x has oil temp issues, particularly the N54 but N55 to some degree as well. And I figure while I have the front all apart I could probably try to address the issue. The CSF oil cooler struck me as an interesting option since it is supposedly a plug and play ordeal. No new lines, no changes at the OFH, nothing. They cross reference that oil cooler as the same cooler use for an oil cooler on a 335, as well as the DCT cooler on the E9x M3. As far as I can tell there are no reviews of it anywhere as an oil cooler.

Other options are Stett, Dinan, or roll my own (with a Setrab core). I could roll my own, but honestly I have enough other stuff to do to the car and would rather not try to reinvent the wheel. I wish Ginger_Extract would finish his bracket so I could just do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekid2002 View Post
If you're going to track it you need an upgraded oil cooler. You'll also need some upgraded brake lines, brakes, fluid. I use ER and it worked because i had limp mode issues first time at the track.
Do you have an N54 or N55? DCT or 6MT?

I'm aware I will need a lot more than just water/oil cooling to make it track worthy. FWIW this is the plan for right now - its a sort of budget street/track build. Feel free to critique:
Suspension:
M3 front arms, M3 Rear Guides, possibly M3 rear uppers just because, Megan toe arms, Whiteline RSFB, ST XTA coilovers (actually an e88 kit on my e82 for a rear more rear spring rate out of the box), 1M strut bar so I can access the adjusters.
Brakes:
- 340mm sized front F30 calipers and associated 340x30 semi-floaters (non-directionally vented though ), stock 135i rotor/caliper in the rear. In terms of pads all-around PFC01s if PFC gets to making the pads for the F30, otherwise probably Pagid RS29. Castrol SRF and Stoptech front and rear stainless lines.
- I *might* add DIY front brake ducting. My buddy swears up and down that I'm going to annihilate my front brakes even with the 340mm upgrade and that I should just plan on ducting it right away. I have been known to brake late and very hard. Last year when I took my M3 out to Gingerman I actually had the 380mm front Stoptech's with Pagid RS29s pouring smoke off the fronts. I dunno maybe he is right, but then again this car is notably lighter than the M, has slightly less power, and wont be on take-off slicks. Sort of up in the air on this one too?!
Power:
- Intercooler, Chargepipe, Downpipe, Custom tune on MHD by your's truly.
Cooling:
- CSF Radiator. Unknown oil cooler
Wheels/Tires:
- Apex ARC-8 18" Staggered set with either 245/265 Hankook z214 C51 R-comps, or 235/275 Nitto NT-01s.
Misc:
- Diff lockdown kit?

Wish I could afford a real differential, nicer coilovers, turbo upgrade and even more potent braking setup. But for now I think this is the best use of a somewhat limited budget. Down the line I can do more, but hoping this will keep me happy in the meantime while I learn a new (to me) car.

Last edited by WhatsADSM; 03-06-2017 at 06:52 PM..
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      03-06-2017, 07:50 PM   #10
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I've got a MT N54. Looks like you've got big plans!
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      03-06-2017, 07:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
I appreciate the input!

See houtan's post below, I think it seems its marginal for the DCT. But like anything there are lots of variables that go into it.



I agree all of my research seems to indicate that water temps need to be dealt with first and foremost, certainly on the automatic/dct cars. I am going to run a CSF radiator for sure, that was never a question. Everyone that I have read that uses it has fantastic results, and for the price its a no-brainer.

Where I am struggling is... what to do for the oil cooler. One part of me wants to just run it as-is (just as bNks334 suggests). I *might* never actually need it in the first place, and any time you move away from OEM parts my experience is you add one more point of potential problem. Not to mention it costs nothing to do nothing
However on the flip side it is fairly well known that the N5x has oil temp issues, particularly the N54 but N55 to some degree as well. And I figure while I have the front all apart I could probably try to address the issue. The CSF oil cooler struck me as an interesting option since it is supposedly a plug and play ordeal. No new lines, no changes at the OFH, nothing. They cross reference that oil cooler as the same cooler use for an oil cooler on a 335, as well as the DCT cooler on the E9x M3. As far as I can tell there are no reviews of it anywhere as an oil cooler.

Other options are Stett, Dinan, or roll my own (with a Setrab core). I could roll my own, but honestly I have enough other stuff to do to the car and would rather not try to reinvent the wheel. I wish Ginger_Extract would finish his bracket so I could just do that.



Do you have an N54 or N55? DCT or 6MT?

I'm aware I will need a lot more than just water/oil cooling to make it track worthy. FWIW this is the plan for right now - its a sort of budget street/track build. Feel free to critique:
Suspension:
M3 front arms, M3 Rear Guides, possibly M3 rear uppers just because, Megan toe arms, Whiteline RSFB, ST XTA coilovers (actually an e88 kit on my e82 for a rear more rear spring rate out of the box), 1M strut bar so I can access the adjusters.
Brakes:
- 340mm sized front F30 calipers and associated 340x30 semi-floaters (non-directionally vented though ), stock 135i rotor/caliper in the rear. In terms of pads all-around PFC01s if PFC gets to making the pads for the F30, otherwise probably Pagid RS29. Castrol SRF and Stoptech front and rear stainless lines.
- I *might* add DIY front brake ducting. My buddy swears up and down that I'm going to annihilate my front brakes even with the 340mm upgrade and that I should just plan on ducting it right away. I have been known to brake late and very hard. Last year when I took my M3 out to Gingerman I actually had the 380mm front Stoptech's with Pagid RS29s pouring smoke off the fronts. I dunno maybe he is right, but then again this car is notably lighter than the M, has slightly less power, and wont be on take-off slicks. Sort of up in the air on this one too?!
Power:
- Intercooler, Chargepipe, Downpipe, Custom tune on MHD by your's truly.
Cooling:
- CSF Radiator. Unknown oil cooler
Wheels/Tires:
- Apex ARC-8 18" Staggered set with either 245/265 Hankook z214 C51 R-comps, or 235/275 Nitto NT-01s.
Misc:
- Diff lockdown kit?

Wish I could afford a real differential, nicer coilovers, turbo upgrade and even more potent braking setup. But for now I think this is the best use of a somewhat limited budget. Down the line I can do more, but hoping this will keep me happy in the meantime while I learn a new (to me) car.
I couldn't find any reviews on the csf oil cooler either. i emailed them and they didnt have any either, just saying customers say it works lol. It is so simple to install, it is tempting. but you can put a bigger cooler in for less money if you DIY it.

for the front brakes, is the 340 mm the common conversion? Asking because i read you can get a 370mm f series front rotor as well, but i don't see anyone getting it. Does it not fit?
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      03-06-2017, 08:04 PM   #12
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There's a little bit of discussion about the 8042 at: https://goo.gl/vZQ3KS

The guy who started the thread installed one but I think still pending actual feedback etc.

I'm strongly considering dropping a 7045 radiator and 8042 oil cooler into the 1M to promote engine longevity.
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      03-06-2017, 10:30 PM   #13
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Houtan have you logged your trans temps? Can you post up some mhd data on a fully warmed up car? The trans shouldn't be running hotter than typical coolant temps. I'd think that the radiator would actually be HEATING the trans fluid once at temp... typically, trans should be kept closer to 180f whereas coolant generally stays between 190 and 230f. No one posts any data about trans temps though... then again mhd just enabled the parameter... more data is needed to determine if having dct is detrimental to coolant temps.

Also, do you guys have any logs of your n55s hitting 280f? I thought my oil temps were hitting that high too until I actually logged a few track sessions. Turns out the car is running fine on track and the high oil temps I saw on my Guage were from pitting back in! The track definetly makes a difference too so that could be part of it.
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      03-07-2017, 12:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houtan View Post
I couldn't find any reviews on the csf oil cooler either. i emailed them and they didnt have any either, just saying customers say it works lol. It is so simple to install, it is tempting. but you can put a bigger cooler in for less money if you DIY it.

for the front brakes, is the 340 mm the common conversion? Asking because i read you can get a 370mm f series front rotor as well, but i don't see anyone getting it. Does it not fit?

Yea the old customer says it works line. Not too sure I buy that. Was hoping someone might have some real data.

As for the brakes. Both the 340 and 370mm fit. In many ways the 340mm makes the most sense because:
A) It hardly affects the brake bias which is probably one of the most important aspects of a brake upgrade.
B) It allows for stock 18" wheels to fit (with a spacer), or even aftermarket 17s
C) Unsprung weight is lower with the smaller disks. You really want *just* as big of a kit as you can get away with.

The 340mm disks are only like 2mm bigger than the stock setup. However they are 4! mm thicker and have calipers that don't have pistons that crumble.

With that said obviously the 370s have more thermal capacity. I certainly haven't written them off just yet, but I would have to resolve the brake bias issue for sure. The rear f30s don't directly fit but I suspect with some massaging would work and would end up with a decent bias ratio again (mostly based on the larger diameter disk back there).
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      03-07-2017, 12:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayao View Post
There's a little bit of discussion about the 8042 at: https://goo.gl/vZQ3KS

The guy who started the thread installed one but I think still pending actual feedback etc.

I'm strongly considering dropping a 7045 radiator and 8042 oil cooler into the 1M to promote engine longevity.
Thank you SO much. I will definitely follow that thread. I hope he posts back with some real data after he hits the track!
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      03-07-2017, 10:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
Thank you SO much. I will definitely follow that thread. I hope he posts back with some real data after he hits the track!
There's also a parallel thread on bimmerpost here that I just bumped as well.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21023272
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      07-16-2017, 11:44 PM   #17
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Thought I would update this thread since I now have returned from my first track event with this car. Its a 2011 N55 DCT car, with the CSF water cooler and CSF oil cooler. It also has basic "FBO" mods (filter, IC, downpipe, tune), coilovers and M3 arms, RSFB, brake upgrades, coded out nannies, R-Comps, being driven pretty aggressively at an advanced level.

The first session I took it a little easy as I was still getting used to the car. For that session at roughly 80*F it managed to keep the oil temps at about 270-280*F and there was no discernable drop in power. The second session I started to take things a bit faster and I *thought* I felt a drop in power as I glanced at the gauge which appeared to be just past 280 or so. It was near the end of the session so I told myself I would keep and eye on it.

By the last sessions of the first day I was getting much faster and more aggressive with the car and was able to pretty easily hit a power reduction with the oil temps creeping to somewhere near 300*F. Most of the day was right around 80*F ambient .

The second day it was slightly cooler with temps in the mid 70s. However I was also now a slightly more seasoned driver and starting to really put the car through its paces. At this point it was pretty obvious I could get the car into oil temperature based limp after about 5-6 hard laps (with laps between about 1:43 and high 1:50s depending on traffic). One time I tried for a fast lap with the temp high and it went beyond a simple power reduction and pretty much shut me down... Like to the point where I actually thought I blew off a charge pipe or something, but I glanced at the gauge and found it well over 300*... maybe 310*F?! So i quickly just went into a cooldown lap. With about a lap of cooldown the car would get to ~260 or so and I could get another 2-3 laps out of it before it would get to hot again.

Based on the this data my conclusions are:

1) The N55 driven in anger (at least with a DCT) can not sustain oil temps to the point where power will not fold back after about 10 minutes or so.
2) The CSF radiator does well, keeping coolant temps in check. The CSF oil cooler is garbage, probably does little to nothing better than stock. I am going to email them and see what they have to say. Before I purchased it I asked if they had any real-world results and their response was a generic "it works well we stand by our products".

Last edited by WhatsADSM; 07-16-2017 at 11:50 PM..
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      07-17-2017, 05:11 PM   #18
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That's crazy dct cars really have that much more of an issue. Sounds like it would've been more worthwhile to get a dedicated trans cooler... again no data is being provided of trans temps... what does "coolant temps in check" mean? Any logs to share?

I had my 135i out to lime rock park again recently in 86f weather and with mhd track coolant setting my oil peaked 262f... coolant peaked 216f? On the straight away...

http://datazap.me/u/banks334/lime-rock-stage-2-ots-86f

Compare to log posted above... different tunes but close enough.

Last edited by bNks334; 07-17-2017 at 05:18 PM..
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      07-17-2017, 05:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
That's crazy dct cars really have that much more of an issue. Sounds like it would've been more worthwhile to get a dedicated trans cooler... again no data is being provided of trans temps... what does "coolant temps in check" mean? Any logs to share?

I had my 135i out to lime rock park again recently in 86f weather and with mhd track coolant setting my oil peaked 262f... coolant peaked 216f? On the straight away...

http://datazap.me/u/banks334/lime-rock-stage-2-ots-86f
This is a log of part of my drive through some canyons. DCT is around 200 degrees. Later in the day when it was a few degrees warmer, it stayed around 205 and oil temps hovered around 246 (no log of that). On track i would assume the dct temp would stay around 205 the entire time as it is much more strenuous than the canyons.

http://datazap.me/u/houtan/wedge-e30...a=3-5-19-21-26
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      07-17-2017, 05:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
That's crazy dct cars really have that much more of an issue. Sounds like it would've been more worthwhile to get a dedicated trans cooler... again no data is being provided of trans temps... what does "coolant temps in check" mean? Any logs to share?

I had my 135i out to lime rock park again recently in 86f weather and with mhd track coolant setting my oil peaked 262f... coolant peaked 216f? On the straight away...

http://datazap.me/u/banks334/lime-rock-stage-2-ots-86f

Compare to log posted above... different tunes but close enough.
I never got a good log of the car on track although I did have MHD open once and had a passenger check it quick. At the time of a thermal foldback the water temps were in the 230s, which is warm but not unreasonable. Looks like the DME doesn't do anything about water temps until they get into the 240s. I never checked the DCT temp, but probably should have. However the transmission was an absolute beast and never missed a beat all day. It certainly never showed any signs of temp derating (which at least in the M3 world you would see with laggy shifts or a complete resistance to shift or listen to your shift commands). The transmission shifted like a dream even as my power started to zero itself out

I guess between the reasonable looking real-time water temps, good shift performance, and an oil temp gauge that read past 300*F it seemed to be fairly conclusive to me that it was an oil temp related foldback...

A few things to remember:
- Everyone's car is a little different. Possible mine just under performs a bit for whatever reason.
- There can be a very big difference in the way people drive and the loads they put on their car. And I am sure that I push my car harder than most, even within the advanced group.
- The DCT is sort of a double whammy. One it taxes the water cooling system more since that is used to cool the transmission as well. Secondly the shorter ratios and the instant shift speeds keep the engine on boil all the time.

See http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=11 for a video of some of the track time. I keep the engine on boil the entire lap, lap after lap after lap. Only if I get stuck behind slower moving traffic will I actually up shift a bunch to give the engine a break. Otherwise I am almost always on the gas 100% at high RPM, or threshold braking.
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      07-17-2017, 07:46 PM   #21
Ginger_Extract
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I wasn't aware that CSF sold an oil cooler for our application. Pics? Oil cooling is tricky with these cars, if flow into/out of the core isn't perfect, it's not doing anything but trapping air.
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      07-17-2017, 09:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
I wasn't aware that CSF sold an oil cooler for our application. Pics? Oil cooling is tricky with these cars, if flow into/out of the core isn't perfect, it's not doing anything but trapping air.
Yup CSF lists part number 8042 as an oil cooler for the 135. I emailed to confirm before purchasing. Here is a pic

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