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      03-17-2019, 05:15 PM   #1
Engrmikl
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Manual 6 or DCT

Hi All
I have been running an E46 M3 but I am looking around to maybe jump into a 135i. My DD is a 335is and really like the quickness of the DCT. I see a bunch of really nice cars for a price I can make work but DCTs. Anyone running them on track for HPDE? Going around the horn for both sides, Pro and Cons
Thanks
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      03-17-2019, 06:06 PM   #2
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For a track car the DCT will be faster, "better" totally depends on what you want from it.
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      03-17-2019, 10:52 PM   #3
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If you go with the DCT you will need to address the transmission cooling. That is assuming you are a keen driver and will run on R-comp tires. In that case you will run into issues with the combined thermal load of the engine and transmission loading the main radiator. The M3 has the same DCT transmission, but less engine torque and a separate transmission cooler. Personally I'm a "big fan" of the DCT, but it will be more complex and costly for any issues associated with it.
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      03-17-2019, 10:59 PM   #4
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Pros: More DCT cars available, DCT is easier to live with in traffic, DCT is faster at a launch, faster in a straight line, and faster on the track.
Cons: There's no substitute for driving a 3 pedal car.

Objectively, DCT is the 'better' option.
Emotionally, hold out for a manual.

Manual might be cheaper to operate long term - but that depends on how you treat your clutch.
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      03-18-2019, 01:17 AM   #5
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DCT is a lot better for driving hard although on track it tends to overheat in hot climates and will respond to your shift requests really slowly. 6MT is better for cruising and going slow since it gives you something to do. If you drive fast DCT is more fun since you can focus on actually driving the car.
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      03-18-2019, 08:32 AM   #6
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We might be an exception and also don't live in a super hot climate, but we haven't had any issues with overheating the trans in my wife's '12 135i, as long as the shifter is in sport. First time she went out in "D" the overheat light came on in 2 laps.
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      03-18-2019, 08:58 AM   #7
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Nothing better than a 6 speed, even with a DCT option I'd prefer manual.
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      03-18-2019, 09:29 AM   #8
Engrmikl
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Thanks for the input
So basically the DCT gets hot so you need to somehow mount the M3 cooler. Does that solve the issue?
Theres seems to be plenty of either DCT or manuals around so its a buyers market as far as that is concerned.
Just making the decision of a bone stock for cheaper or one someone has mods. Stock I can choose my gear or the mod car that you worry about how hard it has been run.
I do agrree with the three pedals but havent figued out the Heel and Toe thing just yet.
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      03-18-2019, 09:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engrmikl View Post
I do agrree with the three pedals but havent figued out the Heel and Toe thing just yet.
I will always buy a manual for my sports cars. I don't care about losing a few tenths on a drag strip or a few seconds on the road course, personally. I'm not going to be winning races in my 'street' car anyways. Standard transmissions just make you a more important piece of the car.


As for heel/toe. Practice. Alternatively, you can buy pedals/plates that help you achieve the action better. And depending on what your doing, you probably won't really be heel/toe-ing anyways, you'll be ball/ball-ing. My foot is almost straight when I'm doing it and I'm just rolling my ankle to the right to lean into the gas pedal.
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      03-18-2019, 10:00 AM   #10
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No doubt the DCT is faster. It is fun driving a manual. It is also fun pulling the paddles and clicking down gears quickly in a brake zone.

I run a DCT and am prepping my car for track days. I've been addressing the cooling issues generally with the car and have been doing quite a bit of research on cooling the transmission, if at all. From what I have seen, the DCT does not have significant cooling problems unless you really push it to the extreme, as in hot ambient temps (+90F) and are running the car hard for a substantial amount of time (+30 min). The majority of DCTs running a track day have no problems. But running a cooler or bigger transmission pan isn't a bad idea. I'd suggest one or the other, both are probably over kill as you have to make sure that the transmission temps run in their proper range. I see you're in South Florida, so high temps are probably a concern for you. It will mostly come down to how hard are you driving and for how long are you out on track?

With that being said, if you want to add a transmission cooler, you'll have to create one. I have not been able to find a bolt-on kit. But, the parts are out there that will allow you to do it. You'll just have to piece it together yourself. There are a few options for aluminum finned pans that are bolt on and allow for more fluid with greater heat dissipation. Although more expensive than a cooler, it is easier in terms of just providing a bolt-on solution.

Something else to consider is that with the plethora of BMWs running DCT transmissions, it is easy to find a used transmission in the event you have to replace one. Swapping a DCT from another model is not as bad as one would think and they can regularly be found for $1000-$2000 with reasonable miles. In the long run, the maintenance between a manual or DCT is about the same. I think the choice mostly comes down to driver preference and "feel" of the car.
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      03-18-2019, 11:56 AM   #11
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Another thing to consider is what you will be doing with the car. I've autocrossed her car a couple times (she tracks and hillclimbs it), and taken it to the drag strip once, and I find the DCT maddening in those situations. Not being able to control launch RPM and the trans upshifting when you don't want it to made me want to set it on fire. On the track it is a non issue. Really matters what you are used to as well, I've never really raced an auto, so it might piss me off more than someone who is used to it.

I also find it shifts way too high when left to shift itself, car picked up .3 and 3mph in the 1/4 when I manually shifted at 5800 rather than let it rev to 6800, but it does have the MHD E30 tune.
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      03-18-2019, 02:20 PM   #12
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Thanks all
I will probably end up with the manual if the thing has an outside chance of temperture issue in the heat especially here in SFL. This would also be a secondary track car with the M3 trading the duty. The M3 has just had a complete cooling system upgrade and never gets hot on track.
Here is the one I kinda like. Not sure on the Megan coilover for this car. I would try out the Dinan stuff but I think there is better out there for the N54.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1539673
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      03-18-2019, 02:22 PM   #13
Engrmikl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mKilgore View Post
No doubt the DCT is faster. It is fun driving a manual. It is also fun pulling the paddles and clicking down gears quickly in a brake zone.

I run a DCT and am prepping my car for track days. I've been addressing the cooling issues generally with the car and have been doing quite a bit of research on cooling the transmission, if at all. From what I have seen, the DCT does not have significant cooling problems unless you really push it to the extreme, as in hot ambient temps (+90F) and are running the car hard for a substantial amount of time (+30 min). The majority of DCTs running a track day have no problems. But running a cooler or bigger transmission pan isn't a bad idea. I'd suggest one or the other, both are probably over kill as you have to make sure that the transmission temps run in their proper range. I see you're in South Florida, so high temps are probably a concern for you. It will mostly come down to how hard are you driving and for how long are you out on track?

With that being said, if you want to add a transmission cooler, you'll have to create one. I have not been able to find a bolt-on kit. But, the parts are out there that will allow you to do it. You'll just have to piece it together yourself. There are a few options for aluminum finned pans that are bolt on and allow for more fluid with greater heat dissipation. Although more expensive than a cooler, it is easier in terms of just providing a bolt-on solution.

Something else to consider is that with the plethora of BMWs running DCT transmissions, it is easy to find a used transmission in the event you have to replace one. Swapping a DCT from another model is not as bad as one would think and they can regularly be found for $1000-$2000 with reasonable miles. In the long run, the maintenance between a manual or DCT is about the same. I think the choice mostly comes down to driver preference and "feel" of the car.
Silly question but wont the cooler from the 1M fit this?
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      03-18-2019, 02:47 PM   #14
mKilgore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engrmikl View Post
Silly question but wont the cooler from the 1M fit this?
Though I am unsure, I don't believe the 1M came with any sort of transmission cooler. But since it was a manual, I'm also not sure how well it would mate up to a DCT. A quick google search does not reveal any 1M-specific transmission cooler kits, nor does it show a stock transmission cooler. But I didn't search that hard either.
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      03-18-2019, 02:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mKilgore View Post
Though I am unsure, I don't believe the 1M came with any sort of transmission cooler. But since it was a manual, I'm also not sure how well it would mate up to a DCT. A quick google search does not reveal any 1M-specific transmission cooler kits, nor does it show a stock transmission cooler. But I didn't search that hard either.
I might be thinking of the M3 that shares the DCT and i am mistaken. But still if one was needed that might be a good place to start.
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      03-18-2019, 03:41 PM   #16
Engrmikl
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Maybe I misunderstood. I thought were saying the DCT in the 135i does not have its own cooler. I was looking into my 335is DCT that has extra cooling and found the gear cooler is the same as the 135i
Not sure where this is mounted. Doesnt show that on RealOEM
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      03-18-2019, 04:49 PM   #17
mKilgore
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Ahh ok, now I'm with you. Yes, the M3 does have a larger cooler for the DCT, but it is located under the passenger side headlight where the 135i's oil cooler is located. The 335is DCT has the same trans cooler as the 135i. It is located at the lower driver's side portion behind the radiator. Part number 17217536929 (heat exchanger).

I'm sorry if I made it confusing, but the 135i and 335i DCT cars have an OEM trans cooler, but it could be upgraded to be more effective, as with most things when dealing with cooling on these cars.
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      03-18-2019, 09:40 PM   #18
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I think CSF when you buy a radiator it comes with a DCT cooler as well according to Bimmerworld, though pictures only show the radiator.

If you end up with a DCT, never had any issue with overheating at the track driven in 85 degree temps, through you need the step down blocker. It's a 3D printed half inch piece of plastic that snaps into the back of the gas pedal and prevents the car auto down shifting even in manual mode. I have no complaints with the dct, would a manual be great from a "purist" standpoint sure. Either way you will be fine.
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      03-18-2019, 09:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beattiecj View Post
I think CSF when you buy a radiator it comes with a DCT cooler as well according to Bimmerworld, though pictures only show the radiator.

If you end up with a DCT, never had any issue with overheating at the track driven in 85 degree temps, through you need the step down blocker. It's a 3D printed half inch piece of plastic that snaps into the back of the gas pedal and prevents the car auto down shifting even in manual mode. I have no complaints with the dct, would a manual be great from a "purist" standpoint sure. Either way you will be fine.
Don't think thats true. I have DCT and purchased a CSF radiator (obviously the spec for DCT vehicles), it did not come with an extra cooler. Though, I discovered the DCT cooler/heat exchanger when I was trying to remove the stock radiator (you can't swap radiators for the DCT without disconnecting the transmission cooler mounted in front of it). This was a big task at the time when I was doing the OFHG and decided to shelf it for a later date. So now my CSF radiator is sitting in the garage hoping to be installed one day lol
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      03-19-2019, 07:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyeWarrior View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beattiecj View Post
I think CSF when you buy a radiator it comes with a DCT cooler as well according to Bimmerworld, though pictures only show the radiator.

If you end up with a DCT, never had any issue with overheating at the track driven in 85 degree temps, through you need the step down blocker. It's a 3D printed half inch piece of plastic that snaps into the back of the gas pedal and prevents the car auto down shifting even in manual mode. I have no complaints with the dct, would a manual be great from a "purist" standpoint sure. Either way you will be fine.
Don't think thats true. I have DCT and purchased a CSF radiator (obviously the spec for DCT vehicles), it did not come with an extra cooler. Though, I discovered the DCT cooler/heat exchanger when I was trying to remove the stock radiator (you can't swap radiators for the DCT without disconnecting the transmission cooler mounted in front of it). This was a big task at the time when I was doing the OFHG and decided to shelf it for a later date. So now my CSF radiator is sitting in the garage hoping to be installed one day lol
Good to know, and I think I'll hold off on the csf radiator for now
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      03-19-2019, 08:22 AM   #21
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Did anyone get a chance to look at this one? I would be new to the 135 so what is good on my M3 might not be the best for this car.
Any opinions

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1539673
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      03-19-2019, 09:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engrmikl View Post
Did anyone get a chance to look at this one? I would be new to the 135 so what is good on my M3 might not be the best for this car.
Any opinions

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1539673
The link is not working for me. Retry?
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