M1 Likely High Volume Car

[jraymond]

Originally Posted by achtungE30

Coming soon to a BMW center near you....$90k E92 M3!!! lol

M1 will probably be $59,995 base.

Would you seriously put it past BMW?

Wow, I want to be in sales!

[ORIGIN M.]

It isn't considered high volume is it?

Originally Posted by BForbes

Many thought the 1er would be high volume too.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by RobMason

I didn't pay MSRP, but now you know how much you can option up a 1 series car.

Neither did I. But I thought that 48K sticker was a lot for a 1er.

[ORIGIN M.]

It is!

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Neither did I. But I thought that 48K sticker was a lot for a 1er.

[moveswiftly]

My 2010 1er was arod the same MSRP as the one above....but i paid invoice.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

It is!

Well then its a good thing that I didnt pay near that!


And OP, quick clarification. When you mean high volume seller, do you mean a high volume for an M car? Because the 1er is only selling ~11K cars a year. I cant see the M1 initially selling many more cars than the Z4 M Coupe. That was what, 3K cars in the states over the few years that it was produced?

[ORIGIN M.]

You have a point, and I'm sure BMW remembers giving those z4m's away at the end too!

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Well then its a good thing that I didnt pay near that!


And OP, quick clarification. When you mean high volume seller, do you mean a high volume for an M car? Because the 1er is only selling ~11K cars a year. I cant see the M1 initially selling many more cars than the Z4 M Coupe. That was what, 3K cars in the states over the few years that it was produced?

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

It isn't considered high volume is it?

I wouldn't think so. Its a little more than 12% of 3er sales.

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

You have a point, and I'm sure BMW remembers giving those z4m's away at the end too!

I wish I was in a position to snag one up when they were. I know two people that did.

[ORIGIN M.]

Yeah for sure, I remember it was right when the 1er was first coming to market here in the US. That is such a nice car too.

Originally Posted by BForbes

I wouldn't think so. Its a little more than 12% of 3er sales.




I wish I was in a position to snag one up when they were. I know two people that did.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Well then its a good thing that I didnt pay near that!


And OP, quick clarification. When you mean high volume seller, do you mean a high volume for an M car? Because the 1er is only selling ~11K cars a year. I cant see the M1 initially selling many more cars than the Z4 M Coupe. That was what, 3K cars in the states over the few years that it was produced?

Yes, as in blow away all other M car's sales figures. I was not talking about equal in sales to 1er sales.

[Eyeman]

I'm not at all sure how the turbo M1 will be viewed. Us modders seem to be happy trying to build our own so it seems there is a market. However, true BMW addicts probably would have preferred a throwback/track car. I'm sure that making a non-turbo M1 that was not as straightline fast as a lightly modded 135 seemed to be poor marketing but I actually think I would have preferred to see it. I still would have bought a 135 and modded it but a One series based, lightweight, high revving, non turbo would have been an instant classic! A turbo M1 will be a monster, especially modded, but not very classic.

[Beemer323]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

If they do that they will have priced the car out of its demographic. The market for a 1 Series with a base price of $55k+ will be tiny. The M3 is already pushing the limits IMO.

Seriously, with all due respect, I cant ever understand Americans and the way you guys whine about how much BMW's cost! An M3 coupe in Aus is equivalent to US$150,000 going by exchange rate and nothing else.

I dunno what wages you get paid but I'm a department manager in Safeway (Aus largest supermarket chain) and my annual salary is about US$50k which is high for the position.

A 135i is about US$70k over here.

Let me know if you guys have any questions but I would be interested to know what kind of wages you guys get.

Regards, Doug.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Safeway. LOL We don't get 50k @ Safeway thats for sure And I'm sure since we are the biggest consumer of foreign goods, companies can afford to sell more at less. There are probrably as many 1ers on my base as there are in Aus. But to answer your question, I dodge mortars and rockets 120 days a year, 60hrs a week, on different shifts every week, get told when and where to be most of the time and pretty much have to smile and carry on. (And I'm in the lazy branch ) For about 30k a yr. Now who's whining?

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by larryn

..based on price.

We know if has to be priced

• more than a 135i
• less than an M3

There's not a whole lot of room between there...

That puts it squarely at the 335i Coupe price point. How many prospective 335i drivers would rather opt for a true M car of a similar format to the 335i, for the same out of pocket? I'm guessing a lot. Add that ///M cache', and I'd think that it may exceed the sales of the existing e92 Coupe, seeing they'd be bringing in new people into the BMW fold, now that the M is $10k+ more attainable.

I think that having an M variant to the 1 series will also boost sales of the 1 series iteslf. Shrewd move by BMW, but how badly will it cannibalize 335i coupe sales?


Thoughts/Comments?

Good analysis, but where does this leave the 335is? I just don't see where there is room for both cars at a (presumably) very similar price point. Or perhaps they won't be offered as concurrent models and the 335is is just a stopgap measure until the M1 is ready for production.
I think BMW's biggest risk at this point is that if they sell TOO many M1's, they risk diluting the entire M brand.

[sparoz]

^

They are both different cars. Two car at the same price points can be very different - and to BMW, even if they are the same price point, 335is and M1 are very different cars. So would argue why you need the M1 performance while you have a "larger" more elegant looking car. The M1 buyers will tell you it looks much nicer and goes faster and it actually have more room.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by sparoz

^

They are both different cars. Two car at the same price points can be very different - and to BMW, even if they are the same price point, 335is and M1 are very different cars. So would argue why you need the M1 performance while you have a "larger" more elegant looking car. The M1 buyers will tell you it looks much nicer and goes faster and it actually have more room.

I get what you're saying, but they're not THAT different in concept. I think their target demographic will overlap quite a bit, with the M1 perhaps biased towards a younger crowd. I still think that if these two cars are being sold side by side that cross-shopping will take place and one will cannibalize sales of the other. I know if I was in the market at that price-point I'd be weighing both.

[larryn]

Hi Bob, When I posted this thread, the 335is had not even been known. It will certainly create pricing overlap, but not performance overlap.

I view the M1 > 335is comparison similar to M3 > 535 sport comparison. Price-wise, they're very similar, and they're both great cars, but they have different intended purposes.

If we're taking intended purpose out of the picture, then throw the base 5 series in the picture too, though I do not see people cross shopping a base 5 series and the M1.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by larryn

Hi Bob, When I posted this thread, the 335is had not even been known. It will certainly create pricing overlap, but not performance overlap.

I view the M1 > 335is comparison similar to M3 > 535 sport comparison. Price-wise, they're very similar, and they're both great cars, but they have different intended purposes.

If we're taking intended purpose out of the picture, then throw the base 5 series in the picture too, though I do not see people cross shopping a base 5 series and the M1.

I agree Larryn that pricing will definitely overlap. I personally dont think the price of the 335is holds any relevancy in the M1 pricing equation. BMW should be looking solely at the M3 for that. Price it where the E46M was at a certain point, 48k ;-) They did put themselves into a pickle here. When in recent history has an M car "only" been 10grand more than the normal car?

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by BForbes

They did put themselves into a pickle here. When in recent history has an M car "only" been 10grand more than the normal car?

Which begs the question; Are they going to "skimp"? If so where? I seriously doubt BMW is going to be eating costs to bring more people into the M segment.

[BimmerLearner]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Which begs the question; Are they going to "skimp"? If so where? I seriously doubt BMW is going to be eating costs to bring more people into the M segment.

Maybe it will be an M-Lite car?

[Joraq]

As much as I hate to admit this, I do think bmw will "skimp" on some aspects of the M1. After driving a 328ci for a day, as a loaner, I noticed some quality differences in interior materials. There are differences in interior materials such as dash, door panels, sound deadening, ambient lighting, etc. These things make the 3 series more luxurious, though not necessarily better. The 328 coupe was heavy and slow compared to my 135i, though the steering was suprisingly heavier. BMW had to do these things to price the 135 lower since the major components are the same. It makes sense. The 135 was still more involving regardless.

In terms of interior quality BMW will have to make the same concessions on the M1 or the prices would be the same. Being smaller doesn't mean less $$ when the components are the same. As Americans we do equate smaller with less money.. This is the reason why premium sub compacts and compacts haven't thrived here and are trying to make a comeback, i.e. a3, 135 etc..

I believe the M1 will be around 50, have less high quality interior materials and be better dynamically than an M3.. It will ride harsher and turn faster.. I'm tired of people complaining about the 1 series ride.. A short wheelbase makes the ride harsher in return for better handling.. It will be as fast, 4.7-4.9 6mt, 4.5-4.7 dct.. Lets remember the 1 is 5.1,5.2 respectively..

What,s really sad is the fact that the 135 was tamed to understeer for these "harsh riding", less stable, resons.. The 135 could've been harsher and better handling for little if any $$.. I wonder if BMW planned for the M1 altogether, or were they surprised when 135 owners wanted more? Do you think they were surprised by the surge of the aftermarket for the 1? Its a money game, we brought on BMW performance and the M1 cause we weren't satisfied with well enough. The aftermarket was doing well. Now we have BMW performance and M accessories from the factory.. It is very clear.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by Beemer323

Seriously, with all due respect, I cant ever understand Americans and the way you guys whine about how much BMW's cost! An M3 coupe in Aus is equivalent to US$150,000 going by exchange rate and nothing else.

I dunno what wages you get paid but I'm a department manager in Safeway (Aus largest supermarket chain) and my annual salary is about US$50k which is high for the position.

A 135i is about US$70k over here.

Let me know if you guys have any questions but I would be interested to know what kind of wages you guys get.

Regards, Doug.

There is obviously differences in wages and cost of living among countries. What's the average salary and the average cost of a vehicle in Australia? What percentage of income do people typically spend on a car payment? Going by your exchange rate conversions, hardly anyone in this country would be buying "lower end" BMW's such as a 135 if they cost US $70k and higher. I believe the average salary in the US is around $50k which is a figure from a few years ago. It is probably slightly higher now.

In Australia, do people typically buy cars that cost more than their annual salary and finance them for many years, or is leasing more common? I really am just curious; not trying to start any arguments.