Transmission grinding second gear (Solved)

Matticus91 · 10-31-2016, 05:01 PM

Car is already at a local shop since I have a warranty on my car but thought I'd post for some input.

Situation:
When shifting from 1st to 2nd at higher RPM's, trans will likely grind the gears even if clutch is fully depressed.

When shifting down from 3rd or 4th (while decelerating) trans will almost always grind even with clutch fully depressed.

No other gear has any issues of this sort, they all slot in buttery smooth even under hard acceleration.

I installed (if you can call it that) the BMS clutch stop a while back but it was doing this before then as well so I know that's not the cause. I also removed it to test the conditions and the issue persisted even with the BMS stop removed and the clutch fully depressed.

Grinding still happens if you hold the clutch for a second and then try to slot the gears, so not a timing issue. I've been driving manual cars since I was 13 and never had an issue like this before.

Has anyone had similar problems or does anyone have any thoughts as to what the cause might be?

**UPDATE**
I took the car to a local tuning shop and had them look it over. They agreed that the synchros on second gear seemed to be prematurely shot and were not functioning as they should. My warranty company first was hesitant to move forward without dissembling the transmission to "determine the exact cause", however it was later decided that it was not worth taking apart the trans since it's core value would be scrapped, and if they had then decided to deny the claim I would be out of luck since these transmissions cannot be rebuilt.

So on Thursday RRT Performance in Sterling, VA took on the job and started to put in a new trans straight from BMW. They had it done by Friday as well as a CDV delete (which is thought to hasten the wear of 2nd gear synchro). I paid my balance (about $600 including CDV delete, sales tax, and deductible) picked up the car Saturday and everything felt totally different. The clutch feels like a clutch should, linear and quick, and the shifts are wonderful.

HUGE shout out to RRT Performance, their staff, primarily Alex and Mike, were absolutely awesome and incredibly helpful from start to finish.

Very happy with the outcome of this potentially devastating issue.

Esteban · 10-31-2016, 05:27 PM

Sorry to hear about your troubles with your transmission. Hopefully it's nothing major. Good luck.

tock172 · 10-31-2016, 05:38 PM

Off the bat, it sounds like worn synchros which would mean a rebuild of your transmission or a replacement of it with another unit.

Has it ever popped out of gear before?

Dackelone · 10-31-2016, 05:56 PM

remove the clutch stop - problem solved. Most likely your clutch is worn to the point where you need just a tad more travel so that the gears don't grind. You really only need a "clutch" for 1st and 2nd gears - all the rest you can pretty much shift without the use of a clutch.

The problem is your clutch pedal needs to be fully depressed in order to not get that grinding action.

Matticus91 · 10-31-2016, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tock172

Off the bat, it sounds like worn synchros which would mean a rebuild of your transmission or a replacement of it with another unit.

Has it ever popped out of gear before?

Synchros is my thought as well - never popped out of gear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

remove the clutch stop - problem solved. Most likely your clutch is worn to the point where you need just a tad more travel so that the gears don't grind. You really only need a "clutch" for 1st and 2nd gears - all the rest you can pretty much shift without the use of a clutch.

The problem is your clutch pedal needs to be fully depressed in order to not get that grinding action.

I removed the clutch stop to test that theory and the issue persisted, that's when I knew it was a definite problem

jlc45 · 11-02-2016, 02:47 PM

Can you shift into reverse (with the car stationary) without any grinding?
If so, your clutch is probably OK. Can you shift into 2nd at lower speeds or lower revs, or does the grinding occur every time? If it happens only in 2nd gear and almost all the time, then it is likely a cracked or worn synchro ring. Unfortunately the trans would have to be taken apart to confirm this and to fix it.

Matticus91 · 11-02-2016, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlc45

Can you shift into reverse (with the car stationary) without any grinding?
If so, your clutch is probably OK. Can you shift into 2nd at lower speeds or lower revs, or does the grinding occur every time? If it happens only in 2nd gear and almost all the time, then it is likely a cracked or worn synchro ring. Unfortunately the trans would have to be taken apart to confirm this and to fix it.

Got the "all clear" from my warranty to go ahead and replace the trans. So it's getting a fresh unit straight from a BMW warehouse nearby and should be all wrapped up by the end of the week.

Also having them get rid of the CDV while they're in there. I'm hoping it feels like a whole new system when I get it back!

Esteban · 11-02-2016, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matticus91

Got the "all clear" from my warranty to go ahead and replace the trans. So it's getting a fresh unit straight from a BMW warehouse nearby and should be all wrapped up by the end of the week.

Also having them get rid of the CDV while they're in there. I'm hoping it feels like a whole new system when I get it back!

Glad to hear it!

ianc · 11-02-2016, 08:18 PM

Fantastic news!

ianc

Matticus91 · 11-03-2016, 08:21 AM

I was beyond happy to hear they had approved everything. Looks like it's going to be about $500 out of pocket including diag, sales tax (not covered) and my $100 deductible for about $4000 in work.

zx10guy · 11-03-2016, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matticus91

I was beyond happy to hear they had approved everything. Looks like it's going to be about $500 out of pocket including diag, sales tax (not covered) and my $100 deductible for about $4000 in work.

Glad everything worked out.

Which shop did you take your car to and what warranty did you have?

Matticus91 · 11-03-2016, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Glad everything worked out.

Which shop did you take your car to and what warranty did you have?

I went to RRT in Sterling, Virginia. Once I get the car back I'll definitely be giving them a shout-out, so far they have been absolutely awesome.

Matticus91 · 11-07-2016, 09:27 AM

Update and final thoughts:

I took the car to a local tuning shop and had them look it over. They agreed that the synchros on second gear seemed to be prematurely shot and were not functioning as they should. My warranty company first was hesitant to move forward without dissembling the transmission to "determine the exact cause", however it was later decided that it was not worth taking apart the trans since it's core value would be scrapped, and if they had then decided to deny the claim I would be out of luck since these transmissions cannot be rebuilt.

So on Thursday RRT Performance in Sterling, VA took on the job and started to put in a new trans straight from BMW. They had it done by Friday as well as a CDV delete (which is thought to hasten the wear of 2nd gear synchro). I paid my balance (about $600 including CDV delete, sales tax, and deductible) picked up the car Saturday and everything felt totally different. The clutch feels like a clutch should, linear and quick, and the shifts are wonderful.

HUGE shout out to RRT Performance, their staff, primarily Alex and Mike, were absolutely awesome and incredibly helpful from start to finish.

Very happy with the outcome of this potentially devastating issue.

ianc · 11-07-2016, 04:08 PM

Quote:

I would be out of luck since these transmissions cannot be rebuilt

Whoa, what's that about? Why can't the trans be rebuilt?

ianc

MightyMouseTech · 11-07-2016, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianc

Whoa, what's that about? Why can't the trans be rebuilt?

ianc

BMW does not sell parts for them. All or nothing.

ianc · 11-07-2016, 04:52 PM

That's probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I wonder what the hell led to that kind of wrongheaded thinking?

I guess we're luck the engine is rebuildable and not a disposable item...

ianc

tock172 · 11-07-2016, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianc

I guess we're luck the engine is rebuildable and not a disposable item...

ianc

Depends what happens to them honestly. If the head warps on an M5X or N5X to the point where the studs get yanked up, you'll be shopping for a new long block.

ianc · 11-07-2016, 05:00 PM

At least they sell the parts...

ianc

tock172 · 11-07-2016, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianc

At least they sell the parts...

ianc

That's right, and the cooling systems have been greatly improved as well.

Matticus91 · 11-07-2016, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

BMW does not sell parts for them. All or nothing.

Exactly this - my warranty provider had a conniption when I told them this

thehalcyon · 07-28-2017, 08:34 AM

I'm getting exactly the same symptoms right now on my car. Shift from 1st to 2nd grinding. I'll keep everyone posted but likely going to be the same fix.

Matticus91 · 07-28-2017, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehalcyon

I'm getting exactly the same symptoms right now on my car. Shift from 1st to 2nd grinding. I'll keep everyone posted but likely going to be the same fix.

If you're out of warranty I'd bring it to a shop and see if they can do a fluid change first to see if that helps. But don't get your hopes up if it's grinding then it's pretty much guaranteed to be the synchros

10-31-2016, 05:01 PM	#1
Matticus91 Brigadier General 3503 Rep 3,722 Posts Drives: 2013 135i Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Washington DC iTrader: (6)	Transmission grinding second gear (Solved) Car is already at a local shop since I have a warranty on my car but thought I'd post for some input. Situation: When shifting from 1st to 2nd at higher RPM's, trans will likely grind the gears even if clutch is fully depressed. When shifting down from 3rd or 4th (while decelerating) trans will almost always grind even with clutch fully depressed. No other gear has any issues of this sort, they all slot in buttery smooth even under hard acceleration. I installed (if you can call it that) the BMS clutch stop a while back but it was doing this before then as well so I know that's not the cause. I also removed it to test the conditions and the issue persisted even with the BMS stop removed and the clutch fully depressed. Grinding still happens if you hold the clutch for a second and then try to slot the gears, so not a timing issue. I've been driving manual cars since I was 13 and never had an issue like this before. Has anyone had similar problems or does anyone have any thoughts as to what the cause might be? UPDATE I took the car to a local tuning shop and had them look it over. They agreed that the synchros on second gear seemed to be prematurely shot and were not functioning as they should. My warranty company first was hesitant to move forward without dissembling the transmission to "determine the exact cause", however it was later decided that it was not worth taking apart the trans since it's core value would be scrapped, and if they had then decided to deny the claim I would be out of luck since these transmissions cannot be rebuilt. So on Thursday RRT Performance in Sterling, VA took on the job and started to put in a new trans straight from BMW. They had it done by Friday as well as a CDV delete (which is thought to hasten the wear of 2nd gear synchro). I paid my balance (about $600 including CDV delete, sales tax, and deductible) picked up the car Saturday and everything felt totally different. The clutch feels like a clutch should, linear and quick, and the shifts are wonderful. HUGE shout out to RRT Performance, their staff, primarily Alex and Mike, were absolutely awesome and incredibly helpful from start to finish. Very happy with the outcome of this potentially devastating issue. __________________ "Tobias" 2013 135i ///M-Sport 6MT • Pure Stage 1 • XDI 35 HPFP • 404whp/440wtq IG: msteelio91 Last edited by Matticus91; 11-07-2016 at 09:27 AM..
	Appreciate 1 Bimmer TV125.00 Tweet Quote

10-31-2016, 05:27 PM	#2
Esteban Major General 51193 Rep 7,235 Posts Drives: a slow car fast Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Sorry to hear about your troubles with your transmission. Hopefully it's nothing major. Good luck.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-31-2016, 05:38 PM	#3
tock172 Beachtown Bill Collector 585 Rep 1,062 Posts Drives: 2012 135i Join Date: May 2011 Location: San Diego iTrader: (1) Garage List 2012 BMW 135i [0.00] 1999 Lexus LS400 [0.00] 1985 BMW 325e [0.00]	Off the bat, it sounds like worn synchros which would mean a rebuild of your transmission or a replacement of it with another unit. Has it ever popped out of gear before? __________________ 2012 BMW 135i Space Grey Metallic M-Sport DCT Dinan S2
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-31-2016, 05:56 PM	#4
Dackelone European Editor 10757 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	remove the clutch stop - problem solved. Most likely your clutch is worn to the point where you need just a tad more travel so that the gears don't grind. You really only need a "clutch" for 1st and 2nd gears - all the rest you can pretty much shift without the use of a clutch. The problem is your clutch pedal needs to be fully depressed in order to not get that grinding action. __________________ Dackel's European Delivery Museum Guide
	Appreciate 1 Quote

11-02-2016, 02:47 PM	#6
jlc45 Private First Class 49 Rep 154 Posts Drives: 2012 BMW 135i 6MT Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ancaster ON iTrader: (0)	Can you shift into reverse (with the car stationary) without any grinding? If so, your clutch is probably OK. Can you shift into 2nd at lower speeds or lower revs, or does the grinding occur every time? If it happens only in 2nd gear and almost all the time, then it is likely a cracked or worn synchro ring. Unfortunately the trans would have to be taken apart to confirm this and to fix it.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-02-2016, 08:18 PM	#9
ianc Ex '87 Carrera 251 Rep 1,259 Posts Drives: '10 TiAg 6MT 135i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Redwood Shores, California iTrader: (0)	Fantastic news! ianc
	Appreciate 1 Matticus913503.00 Quote

11-03-2016, 08:21 AM	#10
Matticus91 Brigadier General 3503 Rep 3,722 Posts Drives: 2013 135i Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Washington DC iTrader: (6)	I was beyond happy to hear they had approved everything. Looks like it's going to be about $500 out of pocket including diag, sales tax (not covered) and my $100 deductible for about $4000 in work. __________________ "Tobias" 2013 135i ///M-Sport 6MT • Pure Stage 1 • XDI 35 HPFP • 404whp/440wtq IG: msteelio91
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-07-2016, 09:27 AM	#13
Matticus91 Brigadier General 3503 Rep 3,722 Posts Drives: 2013 135i Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Washington DC iTrader: (6)	Update and final thoughts: I took the car to a local tuning shop and had them look it over. They agreed that the synchros on second gear seemed to be prematurely shot and were not functioning as they should. My warranty company first was hesitant to move forward without dissembling the transmission to "determine the exact cause", however it was later decided that it was not worth taking apart the trans since it's core value would be scrapped, and if they had then decided to deny the claim I would be out of luck since these transmissions cannot be rebuilt. So on Thursday RRT Performance in Sterling, VA took on the job and started to put in a new trans straight from BMW. They had it done by Friday as well as a CDV delete (which is thought to hasten the wear of 2nd gear synchro). I paid my balance (about $600 including CDV delete, sales tax, and deductible) picked up the car Saturday and everything felt totally different. The clutch feels like a clutch should, linear and quick, and the shifts are wonderful. HUGE shout out to RRT Performance, their staff, primarily Alex and Mike, were absolutely awesome and incredibly helpful from start to finish. Very happy with the outcome of this potentially devastating issue. __________________ "Tobias" 2013 135i ///M-Sport 6MT • Pure Stage 1 • XDI 35 HPFP • 404whp/440wtq IG: msteelio91
	Appreciate 1 Dackelone10757.00 Quote

11-07-2016, 04:52 PM	#16
ianc Ex '87 Carrera 251 Rep 1,259 Posts Drives: '10 TiAg 6MT 135i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Redwood Shores, California iTrader: (0)	That's probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I wonder what the hell led to that kind of wrongheaded thinking? I guess we're luck the engine is rebuildable and not a disposable item... ianc __________________ "I will tell you there is a big difference between driving money and driving blood, sweat and tears." - PorscheGuy79 "I got 328 loaner and was impressed with performance. It feels much faster than my 135i." - MOCKBA
	Appreciate 0 Quote

11-07-2016, 05:00 PM	#18
ianc Ex '87 Carrera 251 Rep 1,259 Posts Drives: '10 TiAg 6MT 135i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Redwood Shores, California iTrader: (0)	At least they sell the parts... ianc __________________ "I will tell you there is a big difference between driving money and driving blood, sweat and tears." - PorscheGuy79 "I got 328 loaner and was impressed with performance. It feels much faster than my 135i." - MOCKBA
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-28-2017, 08:34 AM	#21
thehalcyon Second Lieutenant 52 Rep 248 Posts Drives: '12 135i MT LeMans Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ottawa, Canada iTrader: (0)	I'm getting exactly the same symptoms right now on my car. Shift from 1st to 2nd grinding. I'll keep everyone posted but likely going to be the same fix.
	Appreciate 2 desertman1232229.00 Dackelone10757.00 Quote