Oil Cooler Setups

[spxxx]

With the new 1M front-end I've found that ducting is far worse than the stock bumper. I was only able to put down 2 laps before hitting 275* and going into limp-mode.

FWIW I've never gone into limp mode in ~2 years of tracking this car so please don't suggest a CSF radiatior (that'll probably be installed within the next month anyhow)

The 25 row Dinan core is blocked badly by the bumper so I'm evaluating my options:

1. Add a second 25 row core in-line on the driver side
2. Run a single 34 row core in the OEM spot
3. Run a second 34 row core on the driver side in-line and hopefully never have an oil issue again...

[iminhell1]

Isn't the solution to improve the ducting?




What I was planning for myself when I swap my 1m rep on is to just use AL sheet riveted together to direct the air ... and to the trans cooler I'll be adding in on the drivers side.
Yes it'll take trial and error to get a good fit but it's cheaper than upgrading coolers and then finding out lines need to be changed too.


And just remember that the venting through the fender liner is just as important. The air needs to have time to absorb the heat. Just rushing through with little resistance will not do much.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Isn't the solution to improve the ducting?




What I was planning for myself when I swap my 1m rep on is to just use AL sheet riveted together to direct the air ... and to the trans cooler I'll be adding in on the drivers side.
Yes it'll take trial and error to get a good fit but it's cheaper than upgrading coolers and then finding out lines need to be changed too.

I did add some aluminum ducting and was able to complete about 5 more minutes of 10/10ths driving but part of the core is fully blocked by the bumper due to my core's location, I'm going to move the core down a few inches. The core I'm running is 9yrs old as this was installed my the previous owner at the dealer by Dinan (this car was the beta testing car for all N54 parts they sold for the platform so there may be sludge and bent fins which hurt flow.

** Also, I run a small tranny cooler on the passenger side that impedes flow to the core which doesn't help but is necessary with my 6AT car.

I went ahead and ordered the setrab 34 row core and plenty of line/fittings. I will probably run both my 24 row Dinan and the 34 row setrab in-line and call it a day. I'll also probably take off the Dinan and run some solvent throughout the core and replace the lines in hopes of improving flow.

[iminhell1]

I don't know what these cost, haven't done any searching yet, but a 'fuel cooler' from a ford 6.4 looks appealing to me.

https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...-05445743.html

from mount to mount is 21" and it's 9" tall.
The OE one has more fin density than the Dorman one, just going by the Dorman pic.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by spxxx

With the new 1M front-end I've found that ducting is far worse than the stock bumper. I was only able to put down 2 laps before hitting 275* and going into limp-mode.

FWIW I've never gone into limp mode in ~2 years of tracking this car so please don't suggest a CSF radiatior (that'll probably be installed within the next month anyhow)

The 25 row Dinan core is blocked badly by the bumper so I'm evaluating my options:

1. Add a second 25 row core in-line on the driver side
2. Run a single 34 row core in the OEM spot
3. Run a second 34 row core on the driver side in-line and hopefully never have an oil issue again...

275f is pretty normal. Most performance cars run that hot these days and I wouldn't even worry about anything <280f.

Our cars don't begin to PULL POWER until 305f and doesn't go into "limp mode" until even greater temps. Look elsewhere if you think it was oil holding you back.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

275f is pretty normal. Most performance cars run that hot these days and I wouldn't even worry about anything <280f.

Our cars don't begin to PULL POWER until 305f and doesn't go into "limp mode" until even greater temps. Look elsewhere if you think it was oil holding you back.

JB4 cuts boost back to stock levels at 270F. It's an issue I've been fighting for a long time. With my cooling upgrades, oil temps fluctuate between 260 and 270. So, sometimes full boost, sometimes stock boost. Makes the car edgy to drive.

[NinjaDog]

What's everyone's thoughts on the below cooler?

http://au.helperformance.com/bmw-e82...ith-thermostat

It has a 19 row setrab cooler.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

275f is pretty normal. Most performance cars run that hot these days and I wouldn't even worry about anything <280f.

Our cars don't begin to PULL POWER until 305f and doesn't go into "limp mode" until even greater temps. Look elsewhere if you think it was oil holding you back.

^^* I'd go with a custom setup with at least a 24 row core.

Think the engine starts pulling boost and timing at 280+ whereas full limp mode is 300*

Also, my water wasn't over 225ish.

I'm thinking it's a flow issue as I didn't run a splitter which keeps more air flowing to the cooler. I'm going to reinstall my splitter, add larger core and likely install a CSF radiatior if those two don't cure my issues.

[iminhell1]

Here is where the warnings come on at (for those who don't know):

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Here is where the warnings come on at (for those who don't know):

Is boost/timing not pulled before 302*F?

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Is boost/timing not pulled before 302*F?

I can't find that boost is ever pulled. Only ignition timing ... I think. I'm not the best a t finding this stuff and I thought you might know better ... I'm running your vanos specs, figured you knew your way around a bit better than I. LOL

I should word that different. Torque is pulled via ignition timing.


I'll read through the Cobb lit. and see what they say.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

I can't find that boost is ever pulled. Only ignition timing ... I think. I'm not the best a t finding this stuff and I thought you might know better ... I'm running your vanos specs, figured you knew your way around a bit better than I. LOL

I should word that different. Torque is pulled via ignition timing.


I'll read through the Cobb lit. and see what they say.

Haha I need to start tuning more. Really miss it, I should have more time this year with my job.

I stupidly didn't log the one day I'm on track and go into limp mode. I'm just going to throw money at the problem with a giant oil core and a CSF radiatior so that I don't miss anymore track days this season. Maybe I'll make some tweaks to AFR for cooling as well.

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Haha I need to start tuning more. Really miss it, I should have more time this year with my job.

I stupidly didn't log the one day I'm on track and go into limp mode. I'm just going to throw money at the problem with a giant oil core and a CSF radiatior so that I don't miss anymore track days this season. Maybe I'll make some tweaks to AFR for cooling as well.

LOL

Don't blindly throw fuel at it though. That might (will) cause more ignition draw and take out coils.
I would do more timing and less RPM.
You're probably doing like any of us do, engine braking. Don't. Use the brakes more and let the engine rest unless it's needed for power. I think you said you had a clutch style diff, so you don't need the load to keep it engaged (like you do in a gear type).


Oh, and Cobb says nothing about limp or any power pulling situation.


And I just caught on the other site that you're also an auto.
Did you completely divorce the trans from the radiator?

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

LOL

Don't blindly throw fuel at it though. That might (will) cause more ignition draw and take out coils.
I would do more timing and less RPM.
You're probably doing like any of us do, engine braking. Don't. Use the brakes more and let the engine rest unless it's needed for power. I think you said you had a clutch style diff, so you don't need the load to keep it engaged (like you do in a gear type).


Oh, and Cobb says nothing about limp or any power pulling situation.

I'm still running a helical diff. I'm shaking it down this weekend I hope and will do some logging with the new core and flushed radiator (distilled water + shitload of WaterWetter)

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by spxxx

I'm still running a helical diff. I'm shaking it down this weekend I hope and will do some logging with the new core and flushed radiator (distilled water + shitload of WaterWetter)

In my other car I had the best coolant temps with 50/50 distilled and Sierra coolant (polypropylene glycol). According to what I'd read it has better transfer properties than the green stuff. My logs confirmed it to me.
The one I always wanted to try was the 'waterless' coolant. Someday maybe.


What are you running for pump aggressiveness? and cooling fan settings? they both make a huge difference.

[SCato]

I'm piecing together an oil cooler setup currently as well. Grabbed a Setrab 25 row off ebay for a steal, a psp oil filter adapter (on sale now), and i'll be making my own lines and mounting/ducting solution. I'm only 250$ in without the mounting tools and supplies.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Is boost/timing not pulled before 302*F?

No, it is not.

Component protection (Torque reduction) - Engine oil temperature between 150°C/300°F and 157°C/314°F

Emergency (CEL and LIMP) - Engine oil temperature between 158°C/316°F and 163°C/325°F

Review page 49:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8&d=1165592709

There is also an IAT component to Ignition Timing. As IAT's increase over 130f or so Timing Advance gets factored down a bit. I believe the stock table was posted here in a few places.

Have you coded off things like brake disc overheating? Maybe climbing water temps are causing timing corrections toward the end of a session? AT seems to have the most cooling problems, but that radiator should do wonders. I saw a decent decrease in coolant temps just by switching to straight water (and some water wetter to keep things lubricated) in the summer.

You have a 1M bumper now, right? 19row was a tough fit with the stock bumper. It takes up all the space without deleting the brake ducting. With the 1M bumper you might be able to run the larger cores and still get air to it.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

No, it is not.

Component protection (Torque reduction) - Engine oil temperature between 150°C/300°F and 157°C/314°F

Emergency (CEL and LIMP) - Engine oil temperature between 158°C/316°F and 163°C/325°F

Review page 49:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8;d=1165592709

There is also an IAT component to Ignition Timing. As IAT's increase over 130f or so Timing Advance gets factored down a bit. I believe the stock table was posted here in a few places.

Have you coded off things like brake disc overheating? Maybe climbing water temps are causing timing corrections toward the end of a session? AT seems to have the most cooling problems, but that radiator should do wonders. I saw a decent decrease in coolant temps just by switching to straight water (and some water wetter to keep things lubricated) in the summer.

You have a 1M bumper now, right? 19row was a tough fit with the stock bumper. It takes up all the space without deleting the brake ducting. With the 1M bumper you might be able to run the larger cores and still get air to it.

I have an early 2008 so no TC coding needed.

I'm going to drain and refill with just pure distilled + WW, there's still a little coolant in there.

I think not having a splitter really hurt flow to the cooling cores as that creates such a large high pressure region right in front of them. Going to run this weekend with the Splitter and 34 row core. I'll log sessions with and without the splitter.

What are you guys running for oil thermostat?

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by spxxx

I have an early 2008 so no TC coding needed.

I'm going to drain and refill with just pure distilled + WW, there's still a little coolant in there.

I think not having a splitter really hurt flow to the cooling cores as that creates such a large high pressure region right in front of them. Going to run this weekend with the Splitter and 34 row core. I'll log sessions with and without the splitter.

What are you guys running for oil thermostat?

brake disc overheating function doesn't exist on an early 2008? never head of that. Brake pre-tensioning? Those are the functions I am talking about... not DSC/TC. Brake disc overheating will kill power without throwing any codes or warnings.

Personally, I run the stock thermostats. Oil works in a range of 210-250f. So long as you have the cooling capacity, and water pump table modifications, the car should run at 210f oil and 180f coolant all day without any change to the oil or coolant thermostat.

[frontside0815]

I run an Motiv Delete Plate with an Mishimoto external Thermostat which opens at around 100 ° C and goes from the oem oil cooler to an additional one behind the grill.

Installed it last year shortly before off season and already had one track day with it. Temps were around 10° C cooler then without. But the test in hot summer still has to be made.

What i like about that Setup is that the car now runs around 100°C on the street no matter how you drive. Before i used the low temp oil Thermostat and the car sometimes didnt came to temp (80°c max sometimes) when not driving it hard.

I think the car should run above 100°C all the time, so that water and other things get condensated out of the oil!

Also the car warms up quicker with this Setup, because the Thermostat keeps the way to both coolers closed until around 90°C (like stated above full opened at 100°C).

For me the best Setup! Atm i don´t run the biggest cooler which fits in there, so still room to improve if it is not enough in hot summer days!

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by frontside0815

I run an Motiv Delete Plate with an Mishimoto external Thermostat which opens at around 100 ° C and goes from the oem oil cooler to an additional one behind the grill.

Installed it last year shortly before off season and already had one track day with it. Temps were around 10° C cooler then without. But the test in hot summer still has to be made.

What i like about that Setup is that the car now runs around 100°C on the street no matter how you drive. Before i used the low temp oil Thermostat and the car sometimes didnt came to temp (80°c max sometimes) when not driving it hard.

I think the car should run above 100°C all the time, so that water and other things get condensated out of the oil!

Also the car warms up quicker with this Setup, because the Thermostat keeps the way to both coolers closed until around 90°C (like stated above full opened at 100°C).

For me the best Setup! Atm i don´t run the biggest cooler which fits in there, so still room to improve if it is not enough in hot summer days!

Most people would call what you just described as a negative and not a positive. The stock thermostat is always a little open to ensure oil cycles out of the oil coolers. The "improved racing oil thermostat" does this too, but it is expensive.

I don't think I would want my oil sitting idle in my oil cooler emulsifying and then all the sudden when 90c is reached that cold and water laden oil starts getting injected into the hot oil flow... and into the motors bearings.

[mKilgore]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "oil sitting idle in my oil cooler emulsifying". Can you elaborate? What is the oil mixing with to be emulsified?