BMW Audio Wiring Diagram?

[titancrusher1]

Ok,

So after doing research today, it looks like I will have to change out the stock speakers with better quality ones as well as change the BMW Amp with something more suited for the Audiophile in me :P

I've been searching the forums all day here and haven't found anything pertaining to Where the speakers are located in the car as well as how the wiring is worked out. My best guess is the two door speakers, the two subs under the passenger seats, and two in the rear deck. I have the base audio right now.

I want to take it to the Audio shop i go to, but i dont want to void any warranties; does BMW have a diagram that lays out the speaker system layout?

I heard somewhere that if you drill into the door panels you void the warranty, is this true?


Has anyone successfully modified their system without affecting the I-Drive/Gong issue?


BTW, not looking for a cheap upgrade i want to take the time and save the money to do it right!

[JimD]

It appears you do not have your 135i yet and are trying to do something to pass the time while you wait. Been there, done that.

You will have 2 6.5inch subs under the front seats and 4, 4 inch speakers. The four inch are in the front doors and on each side in the back. The subs are in parallel with the front door speakers, I believe, because the stock head unit of the base system has four channels of output. The attachment will help you understand what you will have.

I have a 2009 with the then base system which is now the mid level. Every time I think of changing it I listen to it again and leave it alone. I have 8 inch subs with their own 40 W channels of power and 4 tweeters you do not have. The tweeters are a bit weak but otherwise it sounds pretty good to me, but I am not terribly picky I guess.

A simple upgrade would be to replace your stock 4 inch with decent coaxial speakers. That would avoid wiring issues. Something like this:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...+SPS-10C2.html

You could also save up more for component speakers and a new head unit.

Jim

[titancrusher1]

Would i need to buy a new amp or can I use the Bimmer one?

[JimD]

My suggestion is that you try new speakers with your current head unit and see if you think you need to go further. If you do, it will mean considerably more money. On BMWs, the radio display is also used to provide certain information on the vehicle so replacing the head unit will also result in some loss of functionality. So if you do not need to, you should not replace the head unit.

The primary issues I see with the base system are that it has only 4 channels and they are only 15W each. That is pretty low power but could be enough for you. Efficient speakers would help you get adequate volume from the modest power of this unit.

Jim

[titancrusher1]

I thought I could just add an amp that connects to the Head Unit? I definitely dont want to change up the I drive system. I've been reading about this "Gong" issue too. FYI, I looked in my trunk and there's definitely some kind of Amp in the back near the battery.

[kmarei]

i would start by adding the amp
assuming you're not getting like 100x4 watts
i ran my stock speakers with 50w rms and they sounded way better than with the OEM amp
if you are not a fan of listening very loud
you would probably stop at that
if you want more clarity you need to upgrade the tweeters

[titancrusher1]

Alright, so after talking to my audio guy he's suggested i do 2 amps, one for the stock speakers and one for the two tweeters and 10" Boston Acoustics G1 Sub he wants to install. What do you guys think? I plan on saving a bit to be able to get the Best amps i can. I forgot the name, but i believe its Rockford 360.1. Your guys' thoughts? Also, i'm assuming there is nothing to be done about the loud Gong that will occur?

[JimD]

I would really think hard about changing speakers first. They make more difference than you may think. And if it isn't enough, it will help with a new amp. It takes twice as much power to raise the sound pressure 3 db. 3db is about the minimum difference you can reliably detect. An efficient speaker relative to an inefficient one can easily be 6 db difference. So to have power enough to be equivalent to a 6 db more efficient speaker, you'd need a 60W amp. Possible but a lot cheaper to just get the more efficient speaker.

Jim

[titancrusher1]

It's definitely cheaper to just change the 4 speakers with something that has better quality, but i'm definitely looking for more in my system. My other car is a Saab 9-5 and I installed a Rockford Amp, boston sub, and four Kenwood speakers. The difference was astounding. If i just changed the speakers in the 1, i dont think i would get that really great sound quality with the ability to crank it a bit when im in the mood.

So far, I think I may do the two amps, the sub in the trunk, and tweeters. I'll keep the speakers in there for now and if i dont like the sound, I can always change them up. The big thing for me is to not mess or interfere with the Head unit.

[kmarei]

do the amp first and listen for a while.
then see if you need speakers
i did it and was very impressed with the stock speakers
keep in mind changing speakers means taking off door panels etc
lost of room for rattles and stuff like that
keep in mind if you do amp then do speakers later
you won't have to undo any work you did when you installed the amp
so its not like you are doing something then taking it apart to add speakers

[VP Electricity]

The sixes under the seat in the base audio system have 8" frames, so they fit in enclosures designed for 8" flat woofers.

They are connected to the front 4" and tweeter in parallel.

The 4" has a capacitor in series with it to keep it from playing too low, and thus the impedance is kept within a measureable range. Ditto the tweeter. The impedance is lower than 4, but not too much, I would imagine.

The rear speakers have a filter in the HU output to remove notes from about 150 and down.


So, with the base audio, my answer is you need both an amp and speakers. You don't have enough power to make any speaker really sound good, and really good speakers won't sound worth the money - because they are not very efficient and need more power.

But the speakers provided are very low end - no tweeters, a small woofer without much in the way of excursion...

The other day, I installed a Zapco DSP amplifier into a Boxster. The speaker complement was similar to BMW HiFi - two flat 8" in the door, 4" mids, and tweeters. We used half the amp actively low-passed on the 8", and the other half actively high-passed on the 4 and tweeter. We used the DSP EQ to knock down a couple of heinous peaks in the 4 and the tweeter, and the system sounded effin' amazing - with stock speaks!

However, the base audio speaks in your car are nowhere near as good as the HiFi speaks nor the Boxster speakers. Amplifying them is something I wouldn't bet on, because they are designed for one thing - to be cheap.

If you found someone selling their HiFi takeouts, you could try amplifying them... but I can tell you exactly what I would do if I had a 135 - in fact, I'm making a kit!

New door speakers (bolt-in)

New underseat woofers

New amp with DSP preprogrammed for electrical signal and cabin acoustics

rear speakers, either upgraded or stock, with rear ambience channel

[VP Electricity]

Wait, I forgot base 135 has no tweeter - ignore that part

[kaigoss69]

People who suggest replacing the speakers only have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about.

[titancrusher1]

Like I mentioned earlier, looks like i'm going to put the amp in, which is the Zapco now that it was mentioned here. I"m also going to put in two tweeters, and the 10" sub in the trunk. I'll add another amp to clear up the stock speakers.

[VP Electricity]

Seems like half a plan...either I'm confused...

[JimD]

VP Electricity,

I think your plan makes a lot of sense. I am confident an amp without upgraded speakers will not work very well. You hint at this but I will say it a bit more bluntly. Inexpensive speakers cannot take a lot of power. I actually had one catch on fire during a party once. The voice coils have small guage wire and the core suspension cannot move far enough. So putting in a big amp without changing the speakers is very likely to sound bad and if you play it loud enough, the speakers will stop working.

On the other hand, you can put better speakers on a small amp and nothing bad happens. It may not play loud enough for you but at that point you are ready for the new amp. Better speakers can both handle more power and they sound better regardless of what you drive them with. Power in the amp is also not all for loud music, it also allows the amp not to clip on an occasional louder passage. The clipping is gross distortion. So you can need more amp even if you do not listen to your music so loud the surrounding cars hear it.

The other thing that people who have actually done a thing or two with speakers (for Kaigoss69) know is that speaker effiency is a far cheaper way to get a little more volume. Efficient replacement speakers would make sense unless you already plan a replacement amp and then quality is all that would matter to me. You need similar efficiency in all your speakers unless you want to use equilization to even out the response.

I am not trying to say I know new speakers without an amp will work well with a base sound system. I am just saying you need to do the speakers anyway and if you want to put them in by themselves and see if it is enough for you there is nothing stopping that option. The fact that the subs do not have their own channel, however, makes it significantly less likely you will be satisfied.

Jim

[VP Electricity]

If you spend $800 on some component 4 and tweeters and passive xovers, and run them on deck power, I'm pretty sure something bad will happen between your ears

[Technic]

Originally Posted by titancrusher1

Ok,

So after doing research today, it looks like I will have to change out the stock speakers with better quality ones as well as change the BMW Amp with something more suited for the Audiophile in me :P

I've been searching the forums all day here and haven't found anything pertaining to Where the speakers are located in the car as well as how the wiring is worked out. My best guess is the two door speakers, the two subs under the passenger seats, and two in the rear deck. I have the base audio right now.

I want to take it to the Audio shop i go to, but i dont want to void any warranties; does BMW have a diagram that lays out the speaker system layout?

I heard somewhere that if you drill into the door panels you void the warranty, is this true?


Has anyone successfully modified their system without affecting the I-Drive/Gong issue?


BTW, not looking for a cheap upgrade i want to take the time and save the money to do it right!

Any sound system upgrade will void your OEM sound system warranty if it is determined that that caused the malfunction/damage.

The closest that you can get to an OEM sound system upgrade to your Stereo sound system is the OEM Alpine amp kit but it is not sold in the USA. It can be ordered in Europe thru ebay US seller RoverActive and I think that they offer warranty, for $549.95. Contact seller for more details.

[VP Electricity]

Bmwtechinfo.com

One-day access, $30. Use Explorer. If your monitor is widescreen, experiment for supported 4:3 resolutions.

Go to Haas in Santa Monica or Beach Autosound in OC, talk with Tom.

[bradford]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

The sixes under the seat in the base audio system have 8" frames, so they fit in enclosures designed for 8" flat woofers.

I thought it was determined that the 135i base system in the USA comes with 8" woofers under the seats, per the sticky: HERE - HiFi system is the base system in the USA. Yes?

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by bradford

I thought it was determined that the 135i base system in the USA comes with 8" woofers under the seats, per the sticky: HERE - HiFi system is the base system in the USA. Yes?

You missed an episode

For 2010, base audio is deck power and no amp, and 6" underseats, and no tweeters. This affects 2010 1, 3, and X5 that I know of.

E60 was already deck power F and R and small amp for subs... haven't looked it up for 2010.

This is the same base audio that EU cars have been getting for years. The 6" woofers are upside down within the frame and pretty pitiful-looking when you get to see them...

[titancrusher1]

Ok,

So VP and Jim; if I were to just replace the stock speakers including the subs, would you guys recommend adding an amp for the subs? At the end of the day, if I could just replace the speakers and add two 8"s to replace the two 6" subs i'd be happy. I would like to be able to bump it up a bit though....

So here's waht i'm thinking now....excuse me if i dont make sense lol im not an expert yet :P

2 Component speakers in the front w/tweeters

2 Coaxial speakers in the rear deck.

replace the 6" Subs with High Quality 8" subs

and add an Amp to all that if necessary (particularly to power the subs)


Your thoughts?