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      04-01-2012, 12:08 AM   #1
wibbit
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Lightweight wheels for 135

Hi all,

I have a Q: In your experience, have you found noticeable performance gains from lightweight wheels off the track during spirited driving?

The idea for lighter wheels relates to lowering unsprung weight (refering to the weight of the wheels + anything not supported by the suspension). Lowering unsprung weight will have a greater affect on the car's overall performance; straight line acceleration/deceleration, cornering, and grip, more than their simple weight reduction would suggest. Simplistically, the reason goes that a lower unsprung weight allows the suspension to adjust to bumps in the road quicker during bound/rebound, thereby improving road contact and traction. This is obviously handy. Also, due to the physics of rotating mass compared to static mass, 1lb saving from lighter wheels is (taken by me to be) roughly equivalent to 5lb savings to chassis weight. I have seen this ratio anywhere between 1:2 to 1:10, so I'll take 1:5 as a simple average.

Here are some articles about the benefits of unsprung weight for those curious:
http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f53/...ess-0-a-14546/
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...art-1-a-29057/
http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-ar...art-2-a-29058/
http://www.mb1suspension.com/id102.html

I would also like to get your insights/opinions on the following options for lightweight wheels that will properly fit the 135i. My shortlist is below
Let's compare:
(1lb = 0.45kg)

BMW M Sport Style 261 - Standard
18x7.5 et49 24lb
18x8.5 et52 26lb
Total:100lb or 45kg

Advan Racing RZ-DF
18x8 et45 19lb
18x9 et50 20lb
Total:78lb or 35kg
Static weight saving: 110lb or 48kg

Advan Racing RZ
18x8 et45 18lb
18x9 et50 19lb
Total:74lbs or 33kg
Static weight saving: 130lb or 59kg

Work S1R or M1R
18x8 et45 21lb
18x9 et50 23lb
Total: 88lb
Static weight saving: 60lb or 27kg

Enkei PF01
18x8 et42 18lb
Total: 72lb
Static weight saving: 140lb or 63kg

Breyton Race GTS-R
18x7.5 et45 17lb
18x8.5 et48 19lb
Total: 72lb
Static weight saving: 140lb or 63kg


Images of wheels in order as before:


BMW 261 wheels


Advan RZ-DF


Advan RZ


Work S1R


Work M1R


Enkei PF01


Breyton Race GTS-R

Last edited by wibbit; 04-01-2012 at 01:42 AM..
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      04-01-2012, 12:31 AM   #2
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nice. keep it going.
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      04-01-2012, 09:23 AM   #3
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Nice post. Wheel weight savings was a big issue on this site a few years ago. Most interested in wheel weight savings were buying OZ's or Breytons. Then one of the racing groups worked on getting some track specific wheels made for our cars. They were working with D Force but it fizzled out. I was frustrated because I really like D Force Empowers. Soon after that I found my used Volks so I wasn't too disappointed anymore. Later Apex came through and did make a track specific setup for us.

The problem with many of the lightweight setups is you cant get a wide enough rear wheel since our cars are already traction challenged. The other issue where you'll get stuck is if you want to run a square setup it's tough to get even 245 width front tires to not rub and then they really aren't wide enough for our rears.

The other area to save some unsprung weight is by upgrading to lighter rotors. I plan to do this whenever my rotors need replacing. Same applies to my battery, not that that's unsprung weight.
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      04-01-2012, 10:47 AM   #4
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Interesting Post indeed!

Interesting Post indeed!

The unsprung weight is quite important, hence that's why Porsche moved all it,s RS models to the Center lock hub wheels.

i just checked the brayton's on the tire rack and noticed some weight difference for the same Mag size. any idea why? or is it a mistake ?
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      04-01-2012, 02:21 PM   #5
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great post should be a sticky!

...statistics & the pics to go with them really helps, thxs to posters for them.
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      04-02-2012, 04:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian54bimmer View Post
Interesting Post indeed!

The unsprung weight is quite important, hence that's why Porsche moved all it,s RS models to the Center lock hub wheels.

i just checked the brayton's on the tire rack and noticed some weight difference for the same Mag size. any idea why? or is it a mistake ?
There has to be error.

I just bought Beyern Bavaria wheels 18" i suprise how "light" weight they are.
18x8,5 ET40 and 18x9,5 ET45= 21 lbs / 9,5 kg / wheel
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      04-02-2012, 05:12 AM   #7
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Hmm I want the Advan RZ now.
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      04-02-2012, 05:41 AM   #8
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Thanks for the comments.

Still not sure of the choice between 1) max performance; and 2) looks + no less performance.

I think the Work S1R look stunning.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian54bimmer View Post
Interesting Post indeed!

The unsprung weight is quite important, hence that's why Porsche moved all it,s RS models to the Center lock hub wheels.

i just checked the brayton's on the tire rack and noticed some weight difference for the same Mag size. any idea why? or is it a mistake ?
Looks like a mistake, although as with most data, there are questions over the sources in the first place.
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      04-02-2012, 06:04 AM   #9
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2009 135i  [10.00]
I go for #1 since I do use my car often on the circuits here. Looks to me are not on the forefront when it comes to performance but it does pay to have a good looking rim.
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      04-02-2012, 07:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Järppä View Post
There has to be error.

I just bought Beyern Bavaria wheels 18" i suprise how "light" weight they are.
18x8,5 ET40 and 18x9,5 ET45= 21 lbs / 9,5 kg / wheel
Thanks mate!

And how do you review the difference now? does the car feel more agile and does the steering feel more direct ?

PS : please tell me you're on PSS and no longer the RFT because if i go for aftermarket wheels i'll surely dump the RFT's

cheers!
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      04-02-2012, 08:05 AM   #11
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Apex Arc 8s

Apex ARC 8s. Designed for our 1s. Staggered or square. Rolled barrels so strong enough for track use.
My setup:
18x8.5 ET45 18.2lbs (weighed them myself) Hyper Black
Sumitomo HTR Z IIIs 235/40/18 24lbs
Total = ~42lbs/corner
LOVE THEM
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      04-02-2012, 08:51 AM   #12
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Im a little late into this, but switching to my OZs was easily one of the best descisions ive made since buying the car.

Im still trying to work out fitting the 245s properly...its really tough. im seriously considering giving up on it and putting on a set of 225s in the front.
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      04-02-2012, 11:05 AM   #13
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How about Rays G2?
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      04-02-2012, 11:10 AM   #14
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About the Breytons.. I was told by a vendor that the 18x8.5 rear ones are 18.2 pounds, and the fronts were about 16 and a half pounds. Weird weight discrepancies..

I had them on for 2 summers and they felt great after the heavy stock wheels (even kept them on RFTs for the first summer, still felt like the car was a little easier to maneuver. Now I'm on 19"s that weigh as much as the stock 18" wheels. Don't know why the OEM ones are so heavy.
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      04-02-2012, 11:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1speedbike View Post
About the Breytons.. I was told by a vendor that the 18x8.5 rear ones are 18.2 pounds, and the fronts were about 16 and a half pounds. Weird weight discrepancies..

I had them on for 2 summers and they felt great after the heavy stock wheels (even kept them on RFTs for the first summer, still felt like the car was a little easier to maneuver. Now I'm on 19"s that weigh as much as the stock 18" wheels. Don't know why the OEM ones are so heavy.
Thanks mate!

What made you go for the 19'' and would you say that the 18'' Breytons drive better than your current setup because of the weight difference ?

thanks
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      04-02-2012, 11:58 AM   #16
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dont get Breytons man. They are known to have poor quality control. Several forum members over the years have reported cracked wheels on street and track applications.

OP you also need to remember a few facts of physics.

The heaviest part of the wheel is the barrel, which incidentally is the portion of the wheel thats furthest from the center. Lets take the formula for momentum of a rotating body (an energy equation essentially)

It can be written as such

M = 1/2 m w^2 r^2

Where m is the mass
w (omega) is the angular velocity (essentially how fast the object is turning)
and r is the radius, or distance the mass is from the center.

Im ignoring the mass effects of the hub and spokes (assuming its the same for all wheels)

Simply put. if you buy a 25 lb 17" wheel to replace your 25 lb stocker youll notice its easier to change the direction of the wheel.


Its more than just having a light wheel. If you want the best performance upgrade for your money youll have to downsize to 17" wheels.


Just food for thought
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      04-02-2012, 12:01 PM   #17
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I have Breyton GTS-Rs. 15,000 miles and they are all still perfect. I do inspect them quite often and so far there are no signs of cracking. I really think that there was just a bad batch a couple years ago. Anyhow, even the stock wheels are prone to cracking. I'm not endorsing Breytons over anything else, but they just had the look that I was wanting at the time.
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      04-02-2012, 12:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHOOPS2 View Post
I have Breyton GTS-Rs. 15,000 miles and they are all still perfect. I do inspect them quite often and so far there are no signs of cracking. I really think that there was just a bad batch a couple years ago. Anyhow, even the stock wheels are prone to cracking. I'm not endorsing Breytons over anything else, but they just had the look that I was wanting at the time.
Same here. 50,000+ miles with no issues. I constantly get compliments on those wheels. It never ends.
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      04-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian54bimmer View Post
Thanks mate!

What made you go for the 19'' and would you say that the 18'' Breytons drive better than your current setup because of the weight difference ?

thanks
No reason to get 19"s other than brake clearance and looks We don't need the brake clearance, so it really was for looks. Plus they are wider than the stock rim widths, so I could have more of a contact patch and traction in back.

I honestly couldn't tell you if they drive better though. I am 99% sure they do, but I can't say for certain because I took them off last October after I curbed my car during a sudden cold weather/snow storm episode. Put on the winter wheels, and then installed M3 suspension parts. Now the 19" wheels feel better than anything else I've driven on, but that's probably because of the M3 parts as well.

However, compared to the stock wheels that I had before, the Breytons felt surprisingly different. Not a huge black and white difference, but I honestly wasn't expecting anything different at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
dont get Breytons man. They are known to have poor quality control. Several forum members over the years have reported cracked wheels on street and track applications.
Matt, I will have to respectfully disagree with that. My Breytons were daily driven in NJ, took a couple trips down to Baltimore, and several to NYC (Manhattan, Queens, and the Bronx), and I never had any problem. Even when I popped over a curb, they did not crack at all. Only bent and that's because I hopped a curb sideways at highway speed. They are a high quality wheel, better than VMR in my own opinion. Gill's recommendation should be enough for anyone, but ever since those couple horror stories from 2 years ago I never noticed anyone else on the forum complaining about them.

I have been very happy with my Breytons. I would have kept them instead of going for bigger wheels, but they aren't in stock on Tire Rack til May and I needed my winter wheels off, I'm sick of cleaning brake dust from between the spokes of CSL style rims, and I've been craving a wider wheel in back, which is why I bought the 19's from a forum member.
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      04-02-2012, 07:46 PM   #20
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I'm in the market for wheels and tires also... Just also worried that the Breyton's are not strong enough for track use. ARC-8 is perfect functional stand-point, but they are rather boring looking... Not looking into a dedicated set of track wheels. Wnat my summers to double as track duty... No ultimate wheels out there currently still....
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      04-02-2012, 09:29 PM   #21
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I just got a set of Apex ARC8s and while I agree that that looks wise they are nothing special they will allow me to fit a 245/275 tire and weight 18.2 lbs each. Performance wise it is one of the best options for the one at that is not a 3 piece wheel.
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      04-02-2012, 09:34 PM   #22
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Looking at them some more, the Advan RZ looks pretty nice too. Very few photos of these on the 1er on this forum tho. Kinda like the Wedssport SA-55M (which again, does not fit our cars again... Nothing fits...). I am guessing the VMR V701 is a replica of the Advan RZ?

Where can you buy the Advan RZ these days? How much do they run for???
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