Sponsored by The Tire Rack

[first350]

I've been doing lots of research and knew I wanted the ARC-8's, but was still trying to figure out which tires...then I got a "kitchen pass" this Saturday for an AutoX, so Monday I made a ton of calls to get all the parts shipped.

APEX ARC-8 Hyper Silver: Huge thanks to David at Apex for quickly packing up and shipping a new set of rims & 5mm spacers the same day and getting them to my place on Wednesday!!! Wheels look better in person compared to most pics online (IMO)!!

TPMS (RS Technik) from PYSeed: Huge thanks to Eric for getting me TPMS...ordered Monday, arrived Tuesday!

Dunlop ZII 235/40/18: Discount Tire (in Bothell, Wa) also got the tires quickly for a great price (the dunlop ZII's are only carried by Tire rack, so they procure them through tirerack)...The guys at the Bothell discount tire are great, always beat the tirerack & install price, and are fast but careful (they're all car guys and know not to scuff up nice rims).

car: 2012 M sport, DCT. picked it up a few months ago from LA.

only had them for 6hrs...but no rubbing or issues, and Seattle roads aren't that great.


TPMS installed:


side:


angle:


rear:

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Looks phenomenal on your 135i! Can't wait to hear your feedback after you've taken it out for some spirited driving

[foghat]

They look great. You went 235 all around? How come?

[first350]

Originally Posted by foghat

They look great. You went 235 all around? How come?

better balance (less understeer)...will be getting an alignment, M3 front control arms, and M3 convt front sway bar as well; hoping it'll be more neutral. I think the 1 was set-up with a lot more understeer than most sports cars. This is my DD, but I'll also autoX and track it a few times.

I wanted to go w/ a 245/18 all around, but there's very limited options and most of them would cause rubbing. I don't like the idea of reducing the rear tire width compared to stock, but the Dunlop ZII's are soooo much grippier than the OEM RFTs, rear grip is still higher than OEM (Dunlop ZII 235/18 >> RFT 245/18)

side benefits are ability to rotate tires front/rear.


Here's the track car I built...very light and quick, and well balanced; it spoils me and also skews my view of street-able vs. track handling.

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by first350

better balance (less understeer)...will be getting an alignment, M3 front control arms, and M3 convt front sway bar as well; hoping it'll be more neutral. I think the 1 was set-up with a lot more understeer than most sports cars. This is my DD, but I'll also autoX and track it a few times.

Great looking track car.

I run 225s all around (Z1s and now ZIIs). The square setup does help quite a bit.

Here is my suggestion, based on my own experience: change to M3 rear subframe bushings before you do any other suspension modification. They vastly improve the front end grip. My theory is that they do this by eliminating passive rear steer that increases the tendency to understeer at higher cornering loads. Whatever it does, it works. The effect is so pronounced it is clear that nothing else you do will fix the car unless you also do the bushings.

I also have the M3 front control arms. I did them after the bushings, so I can say they help - but only a small amount.

My initial impression of the 135 was that when pushed the front tires were rolling over and giving up. Tire wear did not fully support that conclusion and nor did logic, given the tire's low profile. Next logical conclusion is there was too much body roll leading to loss of front grip. With that in mind I can understand your desire to stiffen up the front with an M3 bar.

I still have the original M-sport springs and bars in my car. Having done the rear bushings, I no longer have that sensation that the tires are rolling over. The car now feels like a normal sports car - you lean on it harder and it grips harder.

I offer up this little essay because if you are willing to swim against the stream and go with a square tire setup your are obviously actually interested in handling balance.

[Sinister 1]

Looks good!

[first350]

Originally Posted by fe1rx

Great looking track car.

I run 225s all around (Z1s and now ZIIs). The square setup does help quite a bit.

Here is my suggestion, based on my own experience: change to M3 rear subframe bushings before you do any other suspension modification. They vastly improve the front end grip. My theory is that they do this by eliminating passive rear steer that increases the tendency to understeer at higher cornering loads. Whatever it does, it works. The effect is so pronounced it is clear that nothing else you do will fix the car unless you also do the bushings.

I also have the M3 front control arms. I did them after the bushings, so I can say they help - but only a small amount.

My initial impression of the 135 was that when pushed the front tires were rolling over and giving up. Tire wear did not fully support that conclusion and nor did logic, given the tire's low profile. Next logical conclusion is there was too much body roll leading to loss of front grip. With that in mind I can understand your desire to stiffen up the front with an M3 bar.

I still have the original M-sport springs and bars in my car. Having done the rear bushings, I no longer have that sensation that the tires are rolling over. The car now feels like a normal sports car - you lean on it harder and it grips harder.

I offer up this little essay because if you are willing to swim against the stream and go with a square tire setup your are obviously actually interested in handling balance.

Thanks for the info!! looks like I've got more homework to do before the next mod...while I was driving home after the autoX I was thinking more about the rear bushings b/c they did 'feel' soft and the rear of the car just didn't feel very crisp; a part of me was ok with that b/c it seemed to absorb more of the road and maintain traction. I had initially attributed the soft feeling to the tires having a soft sidewall, but from my personal experience with ZI's and what I've read about ZII's, a soft sidewall doesn't fit.

the only good thing about replacing the rear subframe bushings is that I've got a few months for my house to be built and will be installing a 2 post lift...i'll wait for lift before trying to drop the subframe!

[first350]

Regarding the AutoX, the wheels and tires are great. No rubbing, no issues. The course was decently quick (a few spots that got into 3rd for a brief period), and the car was ok...took me awhile to figure out how to drive it; much more trail braking and a few spots that I had to get on the gas earlier due to a lag of power...at first I thought it was the DCT tranny, but it was in manual mode and in 2nd gear...so I'm thinking it was a bit of turbo lag?? not a lot, but a few tenths delay. (felt more like a regular auto tranny)

it was just a practice, but here's some of the times as I recall (top 3 cars are all driven by national level autoX drivers):
Corvette C5 (SS prepared, old R-comps): 55.9s
Cobalt SS (DS prepared, R-comps): 56.2s
S2000 CR (STR prepared, ZII's): 56.8
My 135i (ZII's): 58.3s
350Z (suspenion, diff, NT01's): 58.6s

being a few seconds off great drivers in well prepared cars seemed about right...I was mainly concerned competing w/ my friend's 350Z!

[Pyrat 2]

Any reason why you added spacers? Looks or rubbing?

[first350]

Originally Posted by HeelToe

Any reason why you added spacers? Looks or rubbing?

Didn't use them yet...going to add front and rear at different points to see how bad rubbing would be if I upgrade to a 245/35/18 in the future.

[blinded]

Originally Posted by first350

...I wanted to go w/ a 245/18 all around, but there's very limited options and most of them would cause rubbing...

I'm stepping down to 17's because of this.

Here's the track car I built...very light and quick, and well balanced; it spoils me and also skews my view of street-able vs. track handling.

What's it powered by?

[Kgolf31]

OoooOOoooo...B-Mod, very jealous

Both cars look awesome.

[first350]

Originally Posted by blinded

What's it powered by?

it's a '99 miata drivetrain (turbocharger)...188 wHP, 1,400lbs.

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

OoooOOoooo...B-Mod, very jealous

Both cars look awesome.

Thanks! not a great B Mod car...built for fun and track days, threw it into B Mod for a national tour event (was underweight for E Mod).

[Pyrat 2]

Originally Posted by first350

Didn't use them yet...going to add front and rear at different points to see how bad rubbing would be if I upgrade to a 245/35/18 in the future.

Let me know how the square 245/35 setup goes if you go there. I have 235/40-18-8.5 et45 plus 245/35-18-8.5 et 45 PSS with no rub. If I could go 245/35 all around I'd like to.

[first350]

Originally Posted by HeelToe

Let me know how the square 245/35 setup goes if you go there. I have 235/40-18-8.5 et45 plus 245/35-18-8.5 et 45 PSS with no rub. If I could go 245/35 all around I'd like to.

at some point before the next set of tires, I'll use the spacers to see where the threshold is for rubbing...but there's still the issue of finding a 245/35/18 in a tire equivalent to the dunlop ZII's; so far only 245/40/18's are available.

[Han_]

Just curious if you have stock suspensions? I'm thinking about getting wheels and not sure if i need to get suspensions first.. looks nice .. would 19's be too big on a 1er?

[first350]

Originally Posted by Han_

Just curious if you have stock suspensions? I'm thinking about getting wheels and not sure if i need to get suspensions first.. looks nice .. would 19's be too big on a 1er?

stock M-sport suspension. many ppl run 19's...just depends on what your goals are; 19's are usually more expensive, run a shorter sidewall (greater likelihood of damage) and are generally more for 'show'...

[Clovef]

I have the stagard Apex ARC 8s with Star Specs that I had and loved last summer but with a 275 in the rear. One of them gave out on the sidewall on the inside side facing the car. I am afraid they may have been a bit too wide and rubbed. It was the fall so I put on the winter set and have been thinking of what to do with the back tire ever since then but just now ordered a new set od Dunlop Z2 in 265/35/18. I would just have been paranoid of rubbing on a 275 again so I am also replacing the other rear Star Spec that only had about 3k miles on it. doh! This unfortunately means that I will have replaced 3 rear tires and one rear m-Sport wheel in a 6 month period and none were from wear. I also drove over a 6" carriage bolt with my winter wheels. It managed to go to the inner rim of the wheel and make a tiny little dent.

First350, have you have the tires changed much as you have drive on them for a bit? In my experience some tires need to wear a little before you can really get a good feel for them.

[sea6speed]

The wheels look amazing.

Pics don't look like they were taken in Seattle.

[John_01]

The wheels look good, but those ZII tires look amazing. About as fat as I have seen for a 235 on an 8.5" wheel.

[first350]

Originally Posted by Clovef

First350, have you have the tires changed much as you have drive on them for a bit? In my experience some tires need to wear a little before you can really get a good feel for them.

I've got a few thousand miles on the tires (mostly commuting, but some autoX and spirited driving) - tires don't feel like they've changed. I've had dunlop ZI's (and several other equivalent tires) and these behave similarly...they don't audibly communicate the limit like some others, but the 'feel' is consistent.

Originally Posted by sea6speed

The wheels look amazing.

Pics don't look like they were taken in Seattle.

HAHA! we've actually had a few really nice days this past month and it's carried through the weekends...Seattle makes you really enjoy good weather when it comes!

Originally Posted by John_01

The wheels look good, but those ZII tires look amazing. About as fat as I have seen for a 235 on an 8.5" wheel.

Thanks! I'm still considering an R888 or NT01 for the next set (same size)...in general those would run even wider! I'll play w/ spacers before going any wider to ensure no rubbing...

[Seismology]

cool car