M3 Front Control Arms

[1Pirate]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

One thing that makes the M3 FSB better (so I have read) is the hard bushings that come with the M3 kit vs the Perf FSB part.

That is my understanding as well. The M3 bushings are substantially harder and fit much tighter on the bar than the stock sway bar bushings as well as the Performance FSBs so I've heard.

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by 1Pirate

That is my understanding as well. The M3 bushings are substantially harder and fit much tighter on the bar than the stock sway bar bushings as well as the Performance FSBs so I've heard.

Well this begs to ask.... why not keep my stock M sport bar and just replace the bushings and clamps with the E93 ones?


Mounting brackets (2) 31352283037 / 31-35-2-283-037 $10.10 each
Bottom Swaybar bushings (2) 31352283967 / 31-35-2-283-967 $7.36 each
Top Swaybar bushings (2) 31352283968 / 31-35-2-283-968 $10.93 each

Pretty happy with the stock bar, but it couldn't hurt to perhaps try the firmer bushings. To swap them out is only $56.78 from my local shop. If that wasn't enough help for middle off, I could always add the E93 bar later. (another chance to wrench lol)

Thinking that if the bushings are that much more firm, that might be enough for what I am doing?

Eric

[1Pirate]

Originally Posted by 128_Pilot

Well this begs to ask.... why not keep my stock M sport bar and just replace the bushings and clamps with the E93 ones?


Mounting brackets (2) 31352283037 / 31-35-2-283-037 $10.10 each
Bottom Swaybar bushings (2) 31352283967 / 31-35-2-283-967 $7.36 each
Top Swaybar bushings (2) 31352283968 / 31-35-2-283-968 $10.93 each

Pretty happy with the stock bar, but it couldn't hurt to perhaps try the firmer bushings. To swap them out is only $56.78 from my local shop. If that wasn't enough help for middle off, I could always add the E93 bar later. (another chance to wrench lol)

Thinking that if the bushings are that much more firm, that might be enough for what I am doing?

Eric

That's an interesting point. The M3 bushings and brackets would probably fit on the stock sway bar as I believe it is 26.5 mm just like the E92 M3 sway bar is. However, the stock sway bar does not have bump stops built into it like the M3 bars do that keep the M3 sway bars from moving much side to side under load.

I would think adding the M3 bushings and brackets would improve the OEM sway bar, but not to the same extent as adding one of the M3 bars as well since they also have built in bump stops. I wonder if anyone has tried just adding the M3 bushings and brackets to the OEM sway bar.

[128_Pilot]

Thanks 1Pirate, good info.

Has anyone had a shop quote swapping out the control arms and adding Dinan camber plates? Starting to focus on if I should farm out the work, or enlist my buddies help with his four post lift lol

[Focusedintntions]

get your buddy's lift. Control arms and sway shouldn't take more than hour once on the lift and camber plates maybe another hour each. Shop will charge you like 6 hours labor for what should be 4 max.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by 128_Pilot

Thanks Dackel,

See, this is the sort of thing I am slow on. Some threads talk about only replacing two of the four arms, and you say change out both, or all four. Question begging to be asked is why does Harold sell the wish bone (rear arms?) & tension arms (front arms?) separately?

My goal is to add more neg camber for better turn in for a daily driver. If I need to change out the tension arms I will. Just don't want to do so if I am not gaining at least steering response. If they are not required, and will not really help with steering response, I'd rather not install them.

I had requests from people who rather replace one or the other. My recommendation is the complete kit if you are there doing the job. The flimsy oem tension rods allow too much suspension movement under acceleration and braking.

If you are simply looking for more camber, the lower wishbones will do.

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

I had requests from people who rather replace one or the other. My recommendation is the complete kit if you are there doing the job. The flimsy oem tension rods allow too much suspension movement under acceleration and braking.

If you are simply looking for more camber, the lower wishbones will do.

Thanks Harold for jumping in and helping. Think I will do both, and maybe a E93 sway bar.

BTW do you know what really constitutes, or makes up the M Sport Pkg on the 128i's? I know it is .6" lower than a stock E82, and the suspension is much tighter also than the base E82. So I wonder if the struts are different, sway bars, etc for the M Pkg. Lowering the car alone would not make the car handle so much better than a stock E82 alone IMO.

Guess I need to pull a wheel and look at the tension bar and see if it is a stock E82, or perhaps a M?

From what I can tell, the M Pkg is;

Lowering springs, M steering wheel, front and rear bumpers, labeled door sills and wheels. I ordered mine with electric sport seats, active headlights, and back up warning, and that's about it. (didn't want all the bells & stuff like iDrive, radio etc, wanted a driver and I hardly ever listen to music while driving so the stock one is more than fine)

Any input would be most welcomed, thanks!

Eric

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by 128_Pilot

Thanks Harold for jumping in and helping. Think I will do both, and maybe a E93 sway bar.

BTW do you know what really constitutes, or makes up the M Sport Pkg on the 128i's? I know it is .6" lower than a stock E82, and the suspension is much tighter also than the base E82. So I wonder if the struts are different, sway bars, etc for the M Pkg. Lowering the car alone would not make the car handle so much better than a stock E82 alone IMO.

Guess I need to pull a wheel and look at the tension bar and see if it is a stock E82, or perhaps a M?

From what I can tell, the M Pkg is;

Lowering springs, M steering wheel, front and rear bumpers, labeled door sills and wheels. I ordered mine with electric sport seats, active headlights, and back up warning, and that's about it. (didn't want all the bells & stuff like iDrive, radio etc, wanted a driver and I hardly ever listen to music while driving so the stock one is more than fine)

Any input would be most welcomed, thanks!

Eric

Eric,

The suspension control arms should be the same. M just sits lower with different springs. The struts and shocks might even be the same - you can reference realoem.com for part#'s

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Eric,

The suspension control arms should be the same. M just sits lower with different springs. The struts and shocks might even be the same - you can reference realoem.com for part#'s

Great link thank you!

Well looks like the front sway bars are diff for the E82 vs the E82 with M Pkg. (E92 is yet a dif part)

The struts and shocks are also dif between the E82 & E82 with M Pkg

There is no distinction made between the E82 & E82 with M Pkg for the tension arms and wishbones.

So this confirms that there is more to it than just springs that makes up the difference between the base E82 and the E82 with M Sport Pkg.

I have driven both back to back and to me the difference is substantial. And it's also nice to know the extra coin really did make a difference in the build.

So I will swap out both control arms, add the Dinan camber plates and slap on some P245/35-18's on all four corners and see how things end up. I am thinking (hoping) that I will end up with even a better daily driver that will provide some extra smiles !

[3liter1]

128 Pilot - I love your enthusiasm, but I don't see how you could go about changing all the peripheral stuff like control arms and bushings without first working on the basics, which is the suspension. Whether you go for coilovers, or simply better dampers and springs, I think that should be first. The added parts you are looking at will only accentuate the weakness of the suspension. I had the MSport, added a sway bar and non runflats, and the car was worse than stock until I changed the dampers and springs.

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by AudiS4

128 Pilot - I love your enthusiasm, but I don't see how you could go about changing all the peripheral stuff like control arms and bushings without first working on the basics, which is the suspension. Whether you go for coilovers, or simply better dampers and springs, I think that should be first.

Easy.. I like the M Sport suspension pretty much off the line. Just needs a little love thats all.

Loose the RFT's, add in some lighter wheels (6lbs lighter than OE, that's HUGH unsprung dif)), wider/squared summer tires, slap in a tension bar, remove tower pin, maybe couple of camber plate's, and call it good for my daily driver. I've driven worst, and let's face it... this is not a M3 or Porsche. It is a fun little car, and even with a few mod's, I think a good bang for the buck. I am enjoyin' the hell out of mine!

Anyways, going to to the work myself and drive it over back to my shop and have them dial in alignment

Here is the specs I want for the alignment next Monday.

Front camber -1.5 degree

Front toe-out 1/16" = 0.174°
Total of 0.87 per side

Front caster 7 degrees

--------------------------------------

Rear camber -2.0 degree

Rear toe-in 3/16" = 0.1875°


Does that sound about right to you fellas?



And AudiS4... bout those coilover's, I sell them all the time and think KW V2's would be kewl.. perhaps even Öhlins. But I will enjoy the M package I paid for first... maybe even wear it out, and then pull the trigger on coilover's, rear bar, rear bushings.

Thanks everyone again!

[3liter1]

do you do any autocross or track events? it would be great for someone to discuss the tradeoffs between street vs. track on their mods.
Have Fun

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by 128_Pilot

Easy.. I like the M Sport suspension pretty much off the line. Just needs a little love thats all.

Loose the RFT's, add in some lighter wheels (6lbs lighter than OE, that's HUGH unsprung dif)), wider/squared summer tires, slap in a tension bar, remove tower pin, maybe couple of camber plate's, and call it good for my daily driver. I've driven worst, and let's face it... this is not a M3 or Porsche. It is a fun little car, and even with a few mod's, I think a good bang for the buck. I am enjoyin' the hell out of mine!

Anyways, going to to the work myself and drive it over back to my shop and have them dial in alignment

Here is the specs I want for the alignment next Monday.

Front camber -1.5 degree

Front toe-out 1/16" = 0.174°
Total of 0.87 per side

Front caster 7 degrees

--------------------------------------

Rear camber -2.0 degree

Rear toe-in 3/16" = 0.1875°


Does that sound about right to you fellas?



And AudiS4... bout those coilover's, I sell them all the time and think KW V2's would be kewl.. perhaps even Öhlins. But I will enjoy the M package I paid for first... maybe even wear it out, and then pull the trigger on coilover's, rear bar, rear bushings.

Thanks everyone again!

Those are about my settings and work well street/track. Front camber you're a bit too optimistic on - with pins pulled, M3 control arms, and mild lowering, I'm maxed at -1.1. I would run 1.5 street if I could.

EDIT: I suppose if you're installing the Dinan camber plates and M3 arms in the interim, you can get there. I'm guessing that's what you're doing before next Monday?

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by AudiS4

do you do any autocross or track events? it would be great for someone to discuss the tradeoffs between street vs. track on their mods.
Have Fun

Yes, and I will post an update. And this is what it's about!

BMW 135i on Nürburgring Nordschleife

[128_Pilot]

Collected all the M3 bits now, and will install them myself Sunday afternoon for a little enjoyment. We'll see how crazy the five mile drive over to the shop will be to get the alignment. Updates to follow.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by 1Pirate

That's an interesting point. The M3 bushings and brackets would probably fit on the stock sway bar as I believe it is 26.5 mm just like the E92 M3 sway bar is. However, the stock sway bar does not have bump stops built into it like the M3 bars do that keep the M3 sway bars from moving much side to side under load.

"I would think adding the M3 bushings and brackets would improve the OEM sway bar, but not to the same extent as adding one of the M3 bars as well since they also have built in bump stops. I wonder if anyone has tried just adding the M3 bushings and brackets to the OEM sway bar."

I did as I got the bushings and brackets for free.
Can't really tell a difference as I had that done in conjunction w/new control arms and dampers.

[128_Pilot]

Well with the help of my buddy and his lift at home, we swapped out the control arm's and the toe wasn't all that bad. Total time 2 hours and we weren't rushing. (was quoted 3.6 hours by my local BMW dealership) Car sitting static, I could see the added camber right away. The five mile drive over to the dealership wasn't bad at all. Matter of fact I was surprised at how straight the car tracked w/o an alignment. Over all, not hard and I had fun doing it myself. Car is on the rack getting a alignment now. Will update more later.

[128_Pilot]

This is what I was shooting for,

Front camber -1.5 degree

Front toe-out 1/16"

Front caster 7 degrees

Rear camber -2.0 degree

Rear toe-in 3/16"

Here is my alignment print out




Looks like front toe is positive (toed in wtf) 1/16" = .14 degrees

What was 3/16 again in degrees?

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

Those are about my settings and work well street/track. Front camber you're a bit too optimistic on - with pins pulled, M3 control arms, and mild lowering, I'm maxed at -1.1. I would run 1.5 street if I could.

I'll quote myself and just say I'm not really surprised. And if you're worried about the imbalance left to right, don't be - too small of a difference to have much effect. I max camber out even if it's a bit uneven, so at least the greater side provides a tiny bit more grip. Never had any problems with uneven wear side to side.

[128_Pilot]

Also this is the alignment I ended up with using both control arms and the Dinan camber plates with the locating pins removed.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by 128_Pilot

Also this is the alignment I ended up with using both control arms and the Dinan camber plates with the locating pins removed.

Gotcha, didn't see that you already had the plates too. Actually, I read it wrong anyway since they are using degrees and minutes to measure. The weaker side you got about -1.5 degrees, and the other side is about -1.75 degrees. Makes more sense considering the plates, although I would've thought they could have gotten closer to -1.5 on the one side.

[128_Pilot]

Well... can someone take me to school here?

Looks like Xaeryan has the conversion right for the front camber. But the rear toe is not close to what I had asked for (3/16" in) and the front toe is less then than the 1/16" out that I had asked for?

Can someone double check me on this please?

And would you be happy with this alignment for your daily driver?