Is the 135i a sedan?

[Esteban]

Dr. Kay Segler calls it a coupe, so I'm gonna go with that.

In an interview speaking about the 1M, he says:

This model will be based on the BMW 1 Series Coupé and also be focused on the essentials - the fascination of driving. And it will reflect a love of detail, too.

https://jalopnik.com/bmw-1m-is-the-n...-coupe-5582803

[Esteban]

Also, in the VIN decoder, notice the chassis is called a coupe.

Type UC9C
Model 135i
Market USA
Development Code E82
Chassis Coupe
Steering left
Doors 2
Engine N55
Displacement 3.00 l
Power 225 kW
Drivetrain Rear-Wheel Drive
Transmission manuell
Color Le-mans-blau Metallic - 381
Upholstery Leder Boston 2/schwarz - LWSW
Production Plant Leipzig
Production Date 2010-04-27

[Gangplank]

In modern lexicon a coupé is a vehicle that typically consists of two doors and has a fixed-roof.

The history is fairly interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupe

[duder13]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Dr. Kay Segler calls it a coupe, so I'm gonna go with that.

In an interview speaking about the 1M, he says:


https://jalopnik.com/bmw-1m-is-the-n...-coupe-5582803

Oh, I know they officially called it a coupe. It’s just weird, because it ticks just about every box for a sedan. Heck, they even went on and on about how the 1er was the descendent of the 2002, and the 2002 was a sedan.

I just think it’s misnamed, and I’m assuming for marketing reasons. “Coupe” makes people feel more sporty.

[duder13]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

In modern lexicon a coupé is a vehicle that typically consists of two doors and has a fixed-roof.

The history is fairly interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupé

I don’t know. There are a number of 4-door coupes coming out these days.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

In modern lexicon a coupé is a vehicle that typically consists of two doors and has a fixed-roof.

The history is fairly interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupé

Check your link, Josh.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by duder13

I don't know. There are a number of 4-door coupes coming out these days.

I guess car companies can call them anything they want.

VW used to have a coupe like 4-door called the CC, which I thought stood for "Comfort Coupe," but VW said the name stands for "Comfort Compact." Was a variation of the Passat, and originally called the Passat CC.

[bobdavisnpf]

since the BMW 2002 ad touts their car & driver 6-time "best sport sedan in the world" rating, I checked their 2012 list and found they picked the 1'er as "best performance compact"
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...d-more-awards/
Alas, for convertible they picked the Audi S5... 6% more hp to lug around a 24% heavier car, for a 28% higher price than the E88 135i with all the M-sport options. thanks, but for "sporty and fun - convertibles" I'll take the 1'er and see their S5 in the rear view mirror

[xQx]

Originally Posted by Esteban

There's an E87 1 series 4-door hatchback in Europe. Is it possible that's what you saw?

Yeah, we have them in Australia too. The N54/N55 only came with 2 doors here.

So, reading this thread, it seems as though a coupe or a sedan is defined by whoever the manufacturer is marketing the car to.

I'd always simplified it - if it's got two doors and a trunk, it's a coupe. If it's got two doors and no trunk, it's a hatchback. If it's got four doors and a trunk, it's a sedan. If it's got four driven wheels and weighs 3 tonnes it's a 4WD (or SUV or SAV - whatever)... but (apparently) if it's got two doors and the back seats are comfortable, it can be a sedan; and if it's got four doors and pitiful head-room in the back, it can be a coupe.

[1and1]

It's totally a coupe, not a sedan.

And for those of you who insist we have a "useable back seat", well, my son sat back there for almost 30 seconds then threatened to call Children's Services, he call's it a fancy leather covered parcel shelf. A backseat in name only, useful for insurance purposes more than anything else.

Y'alls friends must be oompa-loompa sized...

[duder13]

Originally Posted by 1and1

It's totally a coupe, not a sedan.

And for those of you who insist we have a "useable back seat", well, my son sat back there for almost 30 seconds then threatened to call Children's Services, he call's it a fancy leather covered parcel shelf. A backseat in name only, useful for insurance purposes more than anything else.

Y'alls friends must be oompa-loompa sized...

It’s only a coupe in name, so it’s a coupe, but it checks every box for being a sedan, technically, just like the 2-door 2002, E21 and E30.

I have the tallest seven year old in his school, and he loves riding in back. I drove with my 6’ tall friend in back for a 45 minute trip recently, and he said it was fine. It’s not that small back there, especially compared to true coupes like a 911, 370Z, etc. Heck, I bought a 135i, because, coming from Porsche, I wanted a usable backseat.

Interestingly, because of its sloping roofline, the E92 is more of a coupe (it has less rear headroom than the E82.)

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Check your link, Josh.

Fixed it.

Also, from that link:

In 1977, International Standard ISO 3833-1977 defined a coupé as having a closed body, usually with limited rear volume, a fixed roof of which a portion may be openable, at least two seats in at least one row, two side doors and possibly a rear opening, and at least two side windows.[27][28]

Coupés have also been described as "any two-door other than a two-door sedan, smaller than a related four-door in the same model line",[1] "shorter than a sedan of the same model"[29] and that "all two-door two-seaters with a solid roof are coupes."[1]

Today, coupé is sometimes used by manufacturers as a marketing term, rather than a technical description of a body style.[28] This is because coupés in general are seen as more streamlined and sportier overall lines than those of comparable four-door sedans.[30] Automobile manufacturers have therefore begun to use the term loosely, marketing sporty four-door models that feature sloping rooflines as coupés.[31]"

[Tuxedo]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Fixed it.

Also, from that link:

In 1977, International Standard ISO 3833-1977 defined a coupé as having a closed body, usually with limited rear volume, a fixed roof of which a portion may be openable, at least two seats in at least one row, two side doors and possibly a rear opening, and at least two side windows.[27][28]

Coupés have also been described as "any two-door other than a two-door sedan, smaller than a related four-door in the same model line",[1] "shorter than a sedan of the same model"[29] and that "all two-door two-seaters with a solid roof are coupes."[1]

Today, coupé is sometimes used by manufacturers as a marketing term, rather than a technical description of a body style.[28] This is because coupés in general are seen as more streamlined and sportier overall lines than those of comparable four-door sedans.[30] Automobile manufacturers have therefore begun to use the term loosely, marketing sporty four-door models that feature sloping rooflines as coupés.[31]"

If the window between the B-pillar and C-pillar is shaped like a pizza slice for either 2dr or 4dr- it's a coupe. shaped like the pizza box- sedan.

[duder13]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Fixed it.

Also, from that link:

In 1977, International Standard ISO 3833-1977 defined a coupé as having a closed body, usually with limited rear volume, a fixed roof of which a portion may be openable, at least two seats in at least one row, two side doors and possibly a rear opening, and at least two side windows.[27][28]

Coupés have also been described as "any two-door other than a two-door sedan, smaller than a related four-door in the same model line",[1] "shorter than a sedan of the same model"[29] and that "all two-door two-seaters with a solid roof are coupes."[1]

Today, coupé is sometimes used by manufacturers as a marketing term, rather than a technical description of a body style.[28] This is because coupés in general are seen as more streamlined and sportier overall lines than those of comparable four-door sedans.[30] Automobile manufacturers have therefore begun to use the term loosely, marketing sporty four-door models that feature sloping rooflines as coupés.[31]"

Yeah, the last part about marketing is really it. If you read the wiki about sedans, the E82 qualifies for that as well:

“The current definition of a sedan is a car with a closed body (i.e. a fixed metal roof) with the engine, passengers, and cargo in separate compartments.[3] This broad definition does not differentiate sedans from various other car body styles, but in practice the typical characteristics of sedans are:

a B-pillar (between the front and rear windows) that supports the roof[4]
two rows of seats[5](p134)
a three-box design with the engine at the front and the cargo area at the rear[6][7]
a less steeply sloping roofline than a coupé, which results in increased headroom for rear passenger and a less sporting appearance.[8]
a rear interior volume of at least 33 cu ft (0.93 m3)[9][10]
It is sometimes suggested that sedans must have four doors (to provide a simple distinction between sedans and two-door coupés).[11] However, several sources state that a sedan can have two or four doors.[5](p134)[12][13] In addition, terms such as sedan and coupé have been more loosely interpreted by car manufacturers since 2010.[14]

When a manufacturer produces two-door sedan and four-door sedan versions of the same model, the shape and position of the greenhouse on both versions may be identical, with only the B-pillar positioned further back to accommodate the longer doors on the two-door versions.[15]”

[duder13]

Originally Posted by Tuxedo

If the window between the B-pillar and C-pillar is shaped like a pizza slice for either 2dr or 4dr- it's a coupe. shaped like the pizza box- sedan.

I don’t know, most cars these days, whether coupe or sedan, are pretty wedge shaped between the B and C pillars. The E82’s window really splits the difference between something like a 3 and 4 series.

The E82 is the most sedan’ish coupe, or coupe’ish sedan I can think of in recent memory.

[Soterios]

This thread has just confused me more. I'm going to keep wrongly calling all two doors coupes and four doors sedans. Haha

[10"]

well if peeps from Porsche can hilariously call THIS a "Coupe" then might as well be able to call anything whatever you want!!!

As with so many things; the modern world is a hot mess of marketing....

[low135]

Wasn't the 1M called the 1 series M coupe? I've never seen any wording indicating anyone classifying this as sedan over coupe

[duder13]

Originally Posted by low135

Wasn't the 1M called the 1 series M coupe? I've never seen any wording indicating anyone classifying this as sedan over coupe

For sure. It’s officially called a coupe. My question was why, since it ticks all the sedan boxes like the 2-door 2002 did. It’s especially odd because BMW made such a point to compare it to the 2002 when it came out, but, yeah, it’s all marketing.

Oddly enough, I’m not the only one who thinks this. Matt Prior from Autocar, when the 135i came out:

“And its coupé body (more like a two-door saloon, if you ask me) is stiffer than that of either the three- or five-door hatch, which should make tuning the suspension for dynamism so much easier.”

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by duder13

For sure. It’s officially called a coupe. My question was why, since it ticks all the sedan boxes like the 2-door 2002 did. It’s especially odd because BMW made such a point to compare it to the 2002 when it came out, but, yeah, it’s all marketing.

Oddly enough, I’m not the only one who thinks this. Matt Prior from Autocar, when the 135i came out:

“And its coupé body (more like a two-door saloon, if you ask me) is stiffer than that of either the three- or five-door hatch, which should make tuning the suspension for dynamism so much easier.”

Wait now the 135i is an old western bar?

[duder13]

Originally Posted by 10"

well if peeps from Porsche can hilariously call THIS a "Coupe" then might as well be able to call anything whatever you want!!!

As with so many things; the modern world is a hot mess of marketing....

No kidding. lol Granted, it’s all about that roof slope. Like most coupes, the roof on that Cayenne coupe starts sloping back in front of the driver and continues smoothly down to the C pillar. That’s why some of the new sloped roof SUVs are called coupes, which I agree is unsettling.

On the E82, the roof actually keeps rising until after the driver, apexing near the B-pillar and creating more rear seat headroom, and, IMO, making it more of a sedan/saloon.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Tuxedo

If the window between the B-pillar and C-pillar is shaped like a pizza slice for either 2dr or 4dr- it's a coupe. shaped like the pizza box- sedan.

I don't know about that. There were plenty of square shape windows on coupes.

Originally Posted by Soterios

Wait now the 135i is an old western bar?

Lol!!