TC Kline, Vorshlag, Kosei K1, Z1's and 38 lbs. of unsprung weight...

[MINI135i]

Well through the winter months the car is finally coming together:

TC Kline DA coilovers with 350 front and 500 rear springs
Vorshalg camber plates
Kosei K1 17x8.5 et40
235/40/17 Dunlop Z1's
v32.1 BMW ECU software


The TC Kline DA coilovers are great. I am lowered 1 inch from stock ride height front and rear currently. The spring rates are a good start but I will need to autocross/track the car to get a better feel if I want more. My first autocross should be mid March as winter is still upon us here in Denver...

Vorshlag plates are nice but need to be in the forward caster position for max negative camber. Here is the scoop: In the forward caster position (7 degrees of caster) I am getting a maximum negative camber of 2.8 degrees. The plates are maxed out at this ride height and do not interfere with the strut hole opening although it is very close (see picture). Remember I am lowered 1 inch so going lower should give more negative camber. FYI: If you want to run the caster in the rear position on the camber plates (9 degrees caster), I could only get 1.8 degrees negative camber before interfering with the strut hole opening.

I weighed everything and the stock suspension taken off was roughly 1 lb heavier than the new stuff I put on. So, no major gain there.

I was originally struggling with the whole 17 or 18 wheel issue but cheaper and lighter always wins out in my book...I lost 38 lbs. of unsprung weight from the stock set up!!! The 235 Z1 is roughly the width of the stock 245 Bridgestone runflat for reference. I will look at bigger tire fitment in the rear at some point but I wanted a front to rear swapable, non staggered set up to start. There is no rub or any issue with current set up, however, in stock form the front will rub just slightly on the inside fender under hard compression with these wheels and tires.

Alignment is a must after everything is installed.

The stock wheels look quite a bit different when they are on the car compared to the Kosei's. The stock wheels have a high offset and really tuck under the fenders making the car look much more lower. Just a visual anomally but something worth mentioning if comparing "lowered" pictures of the 135i.


Just a note on the new v32.1 BMW ECU software...absolutely amazing compared to whatever crap was on the car previous (7/2008 build date). Very good stuff for sure.

[m3bs]

I concur with your choice on the 17" setup, especially since I already have 2 sets of the wheels. When I bolted them up on mine, it seemed like they stuck out a lot further up front. Must be the added camber that pulls them under the wheel well.

How does it drive on the street? I have been considering a similar setup, although I might go a a bit higher in spring rate. I don't do auto-x any more, but I do spend time on the track. (http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...48&postcount=5)

I really don't want to lower the car much (I was glad to be able to clear a dead armadillo this week!). Can it be set any higher than -1" with the TCK setup?

[MINI135i]

With a good alignment it drives great on the street. I run the DA struts at full soft when on the street and it is quite comfortable. Much more comfortable than a stock Cooper S for example. Once the dampers are firmed up for racing it is very stiff and rides hard for normal street driving, but that's the advantage of being able to adjust the dampers. The dreaded forward and back bobbing motion upon acceleration and deceleration is gone with this setup! Body roll has greatly decreased and I think a big front sway bar will continue to decrease the roll.

The TC Kline setup will go higher than 1 inch drop but I am guessing not much more than 1/2 inch. The 1 inch drop is incredibly manageable on the street. I have driven lower cars and this 1 inch height is very easy. TC Kline is runing his car at 1.5 inch drop. I tried 1.5 but I needed a compromise for street driving so I went with 1 inch.


I included some shots of your car from another post for a direct comparison of camber and wheel gap. I believe your tires were completely worn so take that into consideration when looking at wheel gap:

[randomquickness]

maybe I missed this somewhere but is the 32.1 software readily available at all the US dealerships now?

[amsfoto]

Are you looking into upgrading to the M3 alloy suspension parts front and rear? I've been thinking about starting out with this mod myself.

[m3bs]

Thanks for the input. I went looking for that old thread to find those pictures and couldn't locate it!

The wheel gap doesn't concern me. I'm not making changes for the looks. Those tires were shaved RA1's from my E36. I just didn't want them to contact the fenders on bumps and turns.

[TMc135]

MINI135i - what made you decide to go with the TCK's? I have been seriously considering going this route but know they are much more expensive than KW Variant 2's that I am also interested in. Looks great and appreciate your sharing your pic's and experience.

[Fair]

Originally Posted by MINI135i

Vorshlag plates are nice but need to be in the forward caster position for max negative camber. Here is the scoop: In the forward caster position (7 degrees of caster) I am getting a maximum negative camber of 2.8 degrees. The plates are maxed out at this ride height and do not interfere with the strut hole opening although it is very close (see picture). Remember I am lowered 1 inch so going lower should give more negative camber. FYI: If you want to run the caster in the rear position on the camber plates (9 degrees caster), I could only get 1.8 degrees negative camber before interfering with the strut hole opening.

Nice write up, good tech. That camber/caster range is about right, by the way, and we always ship them in the "forward" caster setting like you ended up with - its better to have more negative camber rather than slightly more positive caster. This is a trade off made on some strut cars that have limited room to work with, like the E90 and E82. We've seen these cars get closer to -3.5° front camber in front but only at lower ride heights. There's just only so much room inside the strut tower opening to work with - there's no more room for the top of the strut to travel inboard. Blame BMW for moving the towers and making a small opening. There's no way to get more negative camber at that ride height in the camber plate - but swapping to (longer) E92 M3 front lower control arms is supposed to help.

We tend to recommend -3° to -4° front camber for track use, depending on grip level and strut style.


An inverted strut has less deflection under cornering/braking loads and tends to work well with less static negative camber. 45mm top shafts = big like a pickle. We use this on our brand new 5100/5200/5300 struts for the 1 series

The latest version of the Vorshlag E82/E90 camber-caster plates are shipping with a thicker top ring (.250" vs .100" thick - see pics below) and an all new top nut (for use on KWs and OEM struts that have a very short upper strut stem) that allow the strut nut to fit under the factory strut tower "bar" over the full range of camber adjustment. On a car with adjustable, non-inverted struts like your Konis the brace tends to get in the way of the Rebound knob (or like with our AST 5300s and Remote Reservoirs shown below, it gets in the way of the reservoir hose) and the bar gets chucked in the trash. That's OK - the factory strut "bar" with it's crude 2-bolt mounting is pretty much worthless. Still, we've gone to great lengths (3 top nut revisions and 2 top ring designs) to make our plates work with this bar in most cases.



Cheers,

[MINI135i]

Originally Posted by amsfoto

Are you looking into upgrading to the M3 alloy suspension parts front and rear? I've been thinking about starting out with this mod myself.

No, probably not going that route. I might take the car a little lower if I want more negative camber but I think I will be happy with near 3 degrees negative.

[MINI135i]

Originally Posted by imported_TMc

MINI135i - what made you decide to go with the TCK's? I have been seriously considering going this route but know they are much more expensive than KW Variant 2's that I am also interested in. Looks great and appreciate your sharing your pic's and experience.

I am an autocross/track guy. TC Kline is well tested and highly regarded in that area. I also like a linear spring compared to a progressive spring. Double adjustable is always a plus too.

The 5300 AST's that Fair mentioned above are real beauties but like anything you have to "pay to play". I wouldn't think twice about running TC Klines or AST for that matter, both are great products. The KW's are very nice also but didn't fit what I needed. Kind of just depends on what features you want...

[MINI135i]

Just put a 32 mm Hotchkis sway bar up front and car continues to get even better!

Roll is decreased further and there is an increased ability to put down power through the rear tires exiting a turn.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by MINI135i

No, probably not going that route. I might take the car a little lower if I want more negative camber but I think I will be happy with near 3 degrees negative.

You should be able to get there with the addition of the M3 front wishbone kit.

Harold

[MINI135i]

Added the newly designed Hawk Ht-10's and some Motul 600 fluid for an open lap day at our new track High Plains Raceway: http://www.highplainsraceway.com/


Overall, very impressed with the set up. Firmed up the TC Kline coilovers and the car was very good.

The car drives "heavier" than a Lotus Elise, Mini S, or supercharged Miata because...well... it is heavier, but the power is so good and the overall balance was great. Did not have any problematic issues with understeer that couldn't be tweaked to perfection with the dual adjustable TC Klines. Driver being equal, I feel the 135i is faster around the track then any of the above mentioned cars I have tracked. Power + suspension is always a good mix on the track!

This TC Kline set up with Vorshlag plates is nice. The near -3 degrees of camber worked great and currently do not see the need for more. Once ambient temps get higher I might rethink that. Did not take tire temps but tires held up nicely in the 65 degree ambient temps and did not feel over worked as long as they were given a break at reasonable intervals.

Overall, the 135i was very fast on the track compared to the large, diverse group of cars out there: Honda's, E36's, E46's, Lotus, 911's, GT2's, DB9's, although anyone who has tracked knows results are heavily driver dependent until you get two like drivers, then the car becomes the factor. Anyone who might have attended the event feel free to chime in, as I would love to hear any impressions you had regarding the car.

This is a fantastic set up for the person who wants to still drive their car on the street and be extremely competitive at the track. (The Ht-10's have to come off for the street however or you will sound like a BUS when braking.) The only finishing touch I would add at this point is a set of Toyo R888's for a track dedicated tire. Z1's are surprisingly good but R compounds are just so much better.

I thought this photo was kind of funny, it's called the "Lotus Eater":

[Justin(OKC)]

Nice info, man. I appreciate you sharing!!! I'm considering the TCK setup for my 135 as well. I have a similar (older) TCK setup on my '98 M3/4 and it is a blast. I did want to ask you why you didn't choose the TCK camber plates. I know they give extra camber than stock with them set at their full +camber position. I need to give TCK a call, but is he running the vorshlag's on his 1er, too? I guess maybe the TCK plates don't work on the 1er and that is why I haven't seen them on a car yet.

[MINI135i]

TC Kline runs his own camber plates on his 135i and they are being run on other 135i's.

I got the Vorshlag because they were lower priced and I felt they were achieving the same purpose. TC sells both camber plates, so no big deal either way.

Definitely give TC a call. He'll give you all the latest set up info and the product he sells is fantastic. As I mentioned, I am very happy with the set up. The balance between streetability and track mode is wonderful. There is quite a gap between the two needs, but this system handles that gap well.

[Justin(OKC)]

Very cool. I figured they would work, but I hadn't seen anyone running them. I will give TC a call and talk to him. I keep waiting to pull the trigger due to putting M3 money into this car, but I may just do it.

[Clap135]

any issues with rubbing on this set up? Do you think you can go wider with the tires?

[MINI135i]

Originally Posted by Clap135

any issues with rubbing on this set up? Do you think you can go wider with the tires?

No rub. With the 40 mm offset and 17x8.5 wheel it would be difficult to get more than a 245 on the car if I were to take an educated guess. A lot of space for more tire in the rear with a higher offset wheel though.

[MINI135i]

Darn Corvette's pack a lot of power in the straights but clearly the twisties were the equalizers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ8x6k-zYJI

[miro2296]

sweet video!

[trboboost91]

i like your wheel choice

i have the same wheels but with R1's 245/40/17 mounted.

i would have taken pics with them on but when you only make it through 3 sessions before the engine goes you forget about the photo shoot!@

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by trboboost91

i would have taken pics with them on but when you only make it through 3 sessions before the engine goes

Ouch, that's ugly. What happened?