Making a M1, what would it cost?

[Cornhusker]

Originally Posted by formula M

So..!

How many have put a S65 in a 335is ? ... and made themselves an M3..?

How is this any different?

Ah, Atropos said the differences between the 1m n 135i were smaller than the 335is and m3, spartikus asked him to elaborate, I said the engines aren't even close, which most would agree is a big difference.... not sure what your talking about.

[Atropos]

Originally Posted by formula M

The 1M's engine is going to be an M engine.. even if the 335is makes 420 HP, like the M3, you are not going to modify one into an M3, just like you are not going to modify a 135i, into a 1M...

Horsepower is not the same as matching the engines response and efficiencies. It's an M, YOU can't build one, without an M engine.


The cost for YOU would outweigh just buying an M, thus moot.

From all the details that have been released so far, it's going to use an N54 motor (same as the pre-2011 135i). Given the HP numbers that it will probably put out, how much different do you really think the internals will be?

Different bottom end? Quite unlikely.

Different turbos? Maybe Cams? Maybe. It's already been established that these motors have a good amount of potential in them without doing serious modifications.

I'm not sure where folks draw a conclusion that this is some sort of completely different car from top to bottom from the current 135i. While I agree that the fenders, some air venting, and the rest of the visual cues are indeed different, a whole lot on this car is going to be borrowed, already existing parts. If it wasn't, they wouldn't be able to put the price where they're going to.

I'm not saying that this isn't going to be a good car, or that BMW creating it was some sort of pointless idea. Just pointing out that equalling it with a base model will most certainly be feasible.

[Atropos]

Originally Posted by formula M

Does your N54 rev to 7100 rpms...?

Is horsepower what makes a car, an M..?

You criteria and reasoning is ridiculous. You are NOT going to stretch the front end of a 135i, 5 inches wider, etc..

All you are going to do is make a potent 135i, not an M.

N54 redline is 7k. Do you know what determines redline in an engine to begin with? Actually, never mind, you win. The M stands for "magic". The car is truly 110% completely different, using parts that are only designed for this car specifically. BMW completely retooled for a 3k per year or so model run.

And you get all this for about 10k over the cost of a base model 135. Amazing, no?

It'll be fun to dig this thread back up when the car actually is released.

[Cornhusker]

I was assuming the n54 will be unchanged. You guys aren't. Nothing I've seen shows it will be different. Hopefully it is! but to get 340 hp.... I highly doubt it. If anything, they'll probably improve the oil cooler and radiator to deal with n54 overheat track issues. But I hope they make major changes!

[Doggybags]

LOL at all the bickering about a car we know very few factual details about. Get a life people.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Doggybags

LOL at all the bickering about a car we know very few factual details about. Get a life people.

Wait, why are you replying? Apparently responding to people with no life is way of life for you and by responding to me simply proves the point.


http://www.1addicts.com/forums/annou....php?f=307&a=2

3) Disagree, don't attack. Disagree on topics, but try to leave it at that. Just because you don't like someones opinion on the car's engine, doesn't mean you should call him and his mother all sorts of names Disagreements are awesome, and you should call someone on something you don't agree with, but don't go out of your way to insult and flame someone. Please consider if you would say to someone's face the same thing you are posting.

[technik330]

mad for interwebzzzz brawling ...

One thing that is and will always unique to ///M cars is individual throttlebodies; this, will be the one thing I'd be most interested in seeing on the 1M. Boost + ITBs, it'll be an awesome piece of work-

I think we can all agree the 1M will be as modified as possible with the following restrictions in place:

1). Budget / Time constraints

2). 1M starting price point ("Everyone dreams of owning an ///M")

3). Not stepping on the toes of the big brother of 1M, the M3.

[Cornhusker]

One day you'll all realize that 135i modified is greater than 1m

[IS3andME]

Lol at the "How much to make a 1M". Then there is the "How much to make a M3" camp, and then there is the "How much to make a M5" camp. Here's how much it would cost to make a 1M...just go and ask a M Division engineer how much it cost him/her for their degree, their blood, sweat, long hours, and pay. Fact of the matter is, the cheapest way in the long run is buy it. You won't be sneered or jeered at, you won't be called a a wannabe, and the satisfaction of owning a M car far outweighs the backyard pride of "making a car that embarasses a 1M"....

A 135i is just as fast as a 964 Turbo, but which car would I rather have?

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by technik330

One thing that is and will always unique to ///M cars is individual throttlebodies; this, will be the one thing I'd be most interested in seeing on the 1M. Boost + ITBs, it'll be an awesome piece of work-

Except for the S52B32.......Oh and the S63B40.......

HPF makes it work pretty well on the S54B32. I'm pretty sure ///M can make it work.

I think the S55B34 will have ITB's, carbon plumbing, opened up head, direct injection, cams, larger turbos and anti lag software...

T

[Boosted_N54]

Originally Posted by Cornhusker

One day you'll all realize that 135i modified is greater than 1m

The 135i modifed will also be better then all the M models m3 m5 ect.. cayman S corvett and so on and soooo onnnnn.. ofcorse it will greater, cuz its modified


WHAT HAPPENDS WHEN YOU MOD THE 1M??? then what???

[993 911]

Well then you lose your warranty and you'll wish you purchased a Porsche.

[aus135i]

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by 993 911

Well then you lose your warranty and you'll wish you purchased a Porsche.

Porsches have usable rear seats?

[roo97ss]

This thread is just awesome. I would never mod a car to be a copy M anything, as you'll never get your money back out of it, people will always just buy an M for the money.

If you want an M buy one.

The biggest difference here, is this time the M will NOT have the power advantage due to a significantly different motor, in the past it always did.

the e36 had a 3.2 (240) vs 2.8 (193), the e39 had a 5.0 (400) vs a 4.4 (282), the e46 a 3.2 with 333 vs 3.0 with 225, the e90 a 4.0 v8 with 414 vs a 3.0 tt with 300....yes apples to oranges. The 1m will have a 3.0 tt with say 340-360 vs a 3.0 tt with 300, which is nothing short of a tune to make the same power. To me that's the big difference here, motor. Sure final details may make it significantly different but i doubt it, due to price constraints.

People will for sure buy the 1M; if you want it go for it.... just don't waste your time building one unless you plan to keep it forever (ie you want a DCT 1M and they're not going to make it)

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by roo97ss

This thread is just awesome. I would never mod a car to be a copy M anything, as you'll never get your money back out of it, people will always just buy an M for the money.

If you want an M buy one.

The biggest difference here, is this time the M will NOT have the power advantage due to a significantly different motor, in the past it always did.

the e36 had a 3.2 (240) vs 2.8 (193), the e39 had a 5.0 (400) vs a 4.4 (282), the e46 a 3.2 with 333 vs 3.0 with 225, the e90 a 4.0 v8 with 414 vs a 3.0 tt with 300....yes apples to oranges. The 1m will have a 3.0 tt with say 340-360 vs a 3.0 tt with 300, which is nothing short of a tune to make the same power. To me that's the big difference here, motor. Sure final details may make it significantly different but i doubt it, due to price constraints.

People will for sure buy the 1M; if you want it go for it.... just don't waste your time building one unless you plan to keep it forever (ie you want a DCT 1M and they're not going to make it)

I agree, and wish BMW would just sack up for once and use the S65 since the production run is so small. Would it kill them to just one time give us the car we all want?

Theres a reason besides the economy the M3 isn't selling, its a heavy GT.

We want small car, big engine... NOT big expensive car, big engine.

[spiderz17]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

I agree, and wish BMW would just sack up for once and use the S65 since the production run is so small. Would it kill them to just one time give us the car we all want?

Theres a reason besides the economy the M3 isn't selling, its a heavy GT.

We want small car, big engine... NOT big expensive car, big engine.

Easy on the "we all want." What you want and what others want is not necessarily the same. I, for one, do not want a high-revving, naturally aspirated V8. It's a gas hog and the power band isn't readily accessible on a daily driving basis. Not taking anything away from the S65, I know it's an awesome engine, it just doesn't suit my tastes. I'm stoked that they're making the 1M with a twin-turbo six cylinder, and I wouldn't buy it if it had the S65.

[roo97ss]

Originally Posted by spiderz17

Easy on the "we all want." What you want and what others want is not necessarily the same. I, for one, do not want a high-revving, naturally aspirated V8. It's a gas hog and the power band isn't readily accessible on a daily driving basis. Not taking anything away from the S65, I know it's an awesome engine, it just doesn't suit my tastes. I'm stoked that they're making the 1M with a twin-turbo six cylinder, and I wouldn't buy it if it had the S65.

This is all true. But the song of the M motors is so nice. I agree Turbo is the way to go for daily driving and fuel economy; but the music the s54 made was quite nice (i haven't lived with an s65); the power adequate for daily driving, without winding it up, and fuel economy as good or better than what i'm getting in my 135. That motor was such fun to drive, made me a skip shift fiend. Regular driving 1,3,5,6 or 2,4,6 was very common. In the 135 i feel like i'm not being true to the BMW as it rarely sees 4k....it's always been about that smooth run to 6-7k that makes them so special...

The problem has been the HP war and weight due to safety and convenience necessitating bigger and bigger motors..

To me the ideal 1M would be....
on a diet, 3200 lbs maybe
NA 6 cyl, s54 or better yet the s54 treatment to the newer lighter n52 at about 350 hp; purpose driven. The new M3 is simply too 'grand' of a tourer and i don't know if the turbo will provide enough of the M feel. It's a ton of power but it just doesn't feel like "M power"

Next gen M3 is going to be tt 6 right?

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by roo97ss

This is all true. But the song of the M motors is so nice. I agree Turbo is the way to go for daily driving and fuel economy; but the music the s54 made was quite nice (i haven't lived with an s65); the power adequate for daily driving, without winding it up, and fuel economy as good or better than what i'm getting in my 135. That motor was such fun to drive, made me a skip shift fiend. Regular driving 1,3,5,6 or 2,4,6 was very common. In the 135 i feel like i'm not being true to the BMW as it rarely sees 4k....it's always been about that smooth run to 6-7k that makes them so special...

The problem has been the HP war and weight due to safety and convenience necessitating bigger and bigger motors..

To me the ideal 1M would be....
on a diet, 3200 lbs maybe
NA 6 cyl, s54 or better yet the s54 treatment to the newer lighter n52 at about 350 hp; purpose driven. The new M3 is simply too 'grand' of a tourer and i don't know if the turbo will provide enough of the M feel. It's a ton of power but it just doesn't feel like "M power"

Next gen M3 is going to be tt 6 right?

An aluminum block S54 successor would have been ideal even over the s65 because of its weight and cost advantage, not to mention the fact the bean counters would have actually allowed it. However its obvious at this point BMW is not going to create a bespoke engine for the 1M or any high revving NA plant again for that matter. Thus the S65 is the best possible option for the 1M and would have been an epic send off to their old philosophy.

The N54 and even the N55 now are notorious for their HPFP issues and there is little chance the 1M engine will be any different. The S65 is proven technology and is the culmination of all BMW has learned over the decades. No new unproven tech like direct injection or high pressure fuel pumps which BMW has obviously not mastered yet.

The N54 that will be used in the 1M is a very good engine, but it is unlikely to achieve the unique M feel of past M engines. There is still the chance BMW has some pride left and heavily modify the N54 for the 1M to make it a superior M engine, but i don't think many of us are holding our breath.