Would you buy a media car?

[v1k0d3n]

Originally Posted by Juiced1M

you really think a press car was giving the consideration we give our own vehicles...let me be frank....def not

what makes a car (that's meant to be driven) "beat on"? i would consider mis-shifts, bad braking, never changing fluids, etc mistreatment of a vehicle...not spirited or even "hard" driving. other owners drive their cars car.

i have a friend (scott lear from grassroots, for anyone who knows him) who has owned a Type-R for years...and did what you would consider "beat" on his car (i consider it driving). funny thing was that after 4 years of driving hard, taking it to the track and auto-xing this crap out of it, it actually had a couple HP more than someone who babied their car constantly. (stock for stock on the exact same mustang dyno). we even did a compression/leak-down test and the results were better on his car. from that point...it threw out any opinion i had about spirited driving...and it became much more about "bad" driving (considering that better drivers maintain their cars more than bad drivers).

ask for a dyno of that car...and you'll find it's probably 100% just fine!

[v1k0d3n]

Originally Posted by violinfather

... when the engine was cold because they did not own it.

THATS A MYTH with modern oil pumps and lubricants used in todays cars. this is what i'm talking about...there's a lot of bad information and theories out there. First off, any demo/media used car probably does "warm-up", but it's because they're looking over the features of the car, etc as it's idling. Secondly, give me some scientific proof on how a modern car is "hurt" by driving it hard within the first 1-5 minutes after start. If you're talking about cold cranking...sure...but after the oils is dispersed throughout the engine (which happens in the first <30 seconds, than no.

sorry guys, i know you'll feel compelled to flame me here, but I just don't agree at all.

Also, to your other point...rental cars get BARE MINIMUM car. THIS is the reason why they suck, and feel loose when you drive them. They're also redlined, etc...which goes back to my bad driving comment. So it's an empty point, and for that...yes, I agree...I would never buy a rental car

[BMW Gator]

"in most cases, media/demos would be driven by professionals or people who know how to drive"


Jenna Jameson looked good and was well built and driven by a lot of professionals but I wouldn't want her either

[rossii]

Originally Posted by v1k0d3n

in most cases, media/demos would be driven by professionals or people who know how to drive cars (probably better than most of us).

Hmmmm..........not sure about that.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by BMW Gator

"in most cases, media/demos would be driven by professionals or people who know how to drive"


Jenna Jameson looked good and was well built and driven by a lot of professionals but I wouldn't want her either

Anything which has above 500 000miles on the clock is not a good pick

[violinfather]

Originally Posted by v1k0d3n

THATS A MYTH with modern oil pumps and lubricants used in todays cars. this is what i'm talking about...there's a lot of bad information and theories out there. First off, any demo/media used car probably does "warm-up", but it's because they're looking over the features of the car, etc as it's idling. Secondly, give me some scientific proof on how a modern car is "hurt" by driving it hard within the first 1-5 minutes after start. If you're talking about cold cranking...sure...but after the oils is dispersed throughout the engine (which happens in the first <30 seconds, than no.

sorry guys, i know you'll feel compelled to flame me here, but I just don't agree at all.

Also, to your other point...rental cars get BARE MINIMUM car. THIS is the reason why they suck, and feel loose when you drive them. They're also redlined, etc...which goes back to my bad driving comment. So it's an empty point, and for that...yes, I agree...I would never buy a rental car

Hey I appreciate whatever opinion that people have to offer because quite frankly I don't know very much about the mechanical aspects of a car.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by v1k0d3n

THATS A MYTH with modern oil pumps and lubricants used in todays cars. this is what i'm talking about...there's a lot of bad information and theories out there.

Sorry, but you're totally off base. Taking an engine to high rpm when it's cold is a sure way to reduce engine life dramatically. Even the best modern oils have much higher viscosity when cold, and the oil pump simply can't force it through the narrow channels needed to fully supply cam journals, etc quickly enough at high rpm. Engine parts rely 100% on oil film to avoid metal to metal contact and massively increased friction.

This is true with even the most modern engines, as has been repeatedly drilled into my head by my engine tuner (who checks my data logs for the GT3 to insure I let the oil warm up before getting on it). This guy designed and built the motors that won Daytona 2 years running. Each motor has a different oil temp needed to fully supply oil to redline- the GT3 is 160 C from memory.

Why do you think the redline rises with oil temp on an M3, even though the have the best, most expensive oil available?

I don't know who told you this or of you just assumed, but you're wrong.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Sorry, but you're totally off base. Taking an engine to high rpm when it's cold is a sure way to reduce engine life dramatically. Even the best modern oils have much higher viscosity when cold, and the oil pump simply can't force it through the narrow channels needed to fully supply cam journals, etc quickly enough at high rpm. Engine parts rely 100% on oil film to avoid metal to metal contact and massively increased friction.

This is true with even the most modern engines, as has been repeatedly drilled into my head by my engine tuner (who checks my data logs for the GT3 to insure I let the oil warm up before getting on it). This guy designed and built the motors that won Daytona 2 years running. Each motor has a different oil temp needed to fully supply oil to redline- the GT3 is 160 C from memory.

Why do you think the redline rises with oil temp on an M3, even though the have the best, most expensive oil available?

I don't know who told you this or of you just assumed, but you're wrong.

+1.

In addition, different metals have different coefficients of expansion -- in other words, they expand at different rates when they heat up. Another reason, that you want the temperature stabilized and normal operating temperatures before stressing things.

Neil

[violinfather]

Also wondering on a car with 8000 miles should they still be charging PDI and Freight to the tune of $2000 when it is being sold as a demo?

As you can tell I am still considering this car because I am a little worried that I will not find another one in Ontario to buy. Just feels like a total rip off to pay $2500 under MSRP for a car with 8000 miles however it is all about supply and demand.

[violinfather]

Originally Posted by ianf

8000 miles is hardly a demo...that is simply a 'USED' car. Just be patient and find a better example of a 1M.

Damn...words of wisdom!

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by rossii

Hmmmm..........not sure about that.

I remember that...lol although I also remember reading it wasn't entirely his fault.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by violinfather

Also wondering on a car with 8000 miles should they still be charging PDI and Freight to the tune of $2000 when it is being sold as a demo?

As you can tell I am still considering this car because I am a little worried that I will not find another one in Ontario to buy. Just feels like a total rip off to pay $2500 under MSRP for a car with 8000 miles however it is all about supply and demand.

Don't you Canadians have laws that prohibit a car being sold as a new one - with over 8K miles? In the states I think its 7K miles - and the car is considered a used car. Even if the dealer syill has the CO (certificate of origin) or title from BMW.

IF the car is sold as "used"... it could be that this car was a LEMON(bought back) and they are just telling you this story about it being a media car.

Just some food for thought.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by violinfather

Yes exactly what I meant by spirited driving. My concern is that the car has been driven outside the parameters of the recommended break in. The thing is these cars are so damn hard to find that I am tempted.

You can bet the farm that it wasn't broken in. The question is... how bad is not breaking the car in properly?

If BMW sells these for only $2500 off full MSRP that means all that press hype it generated for this car cost them only $2500? :loco:

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Don't you Canadians have laws that prohibit a car being sold as a new one - with over 8K miles? In the states I think its 7K miles - and the car is considered a used car. Even if the dealer syill has the CO (certificate of origin) or title from BMW.

IF the car is sold as "used"... it could be that this car was a LEMON(bought back) and they are just telling you this story about it being a media car.

Just some food for thought.

Here in the US a car can be sold as new as long as it has not been titled to a buyer. It doesn't matter what the odometer says.
Good point on the lemon.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by MPBK

Here in the US a car can be sold as new as long as it has not been titled to a buyer. It doesn't matter what the odometer says.
Good point on the lemon.

Maybe I was thinking about finacing a car. ? I know in MD and VA that after a certain amount of miles (7K miles ?) - it is considered a used car. I just can't remember if its because of finacing rules or the state DMV.


Also... when a car is sold as a used car... the dealer does not have to disclose any accident or damages to the buyer. Or if it was a buy back (lemon) no discloser is needed. Only when it is sold as new - are there consumer laws that come into play.

[violinfather]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Maybe I was thinking about finacing a car. ? I know in MD and VA that after a certain amount of miles (7K miles ?) - it is considered a used car. I just can't remember if its because of finacing rules or the state DMV.


Also... when a car is sold as a used car... the dealer does not have to disclose any accident or damages to the buyer. Or if it was a buy back (lemon) no discloser is needed. Only when it is sold as new - are there consumer laws that come into play.

In Ontario any damage over $3,000 must be indicated as well as any structural repairs or alterations. Specifically, if any two adjacent body panels (not including bumper covers) have been replaced for any reason, the consumer must be notified in writing. A new vehicle is one for which a license/ownership permit has not yet been issued or was not yet delivered to a buyer (or was used in a way that did not require a permit) and a used vehicle is simply one that isn’t new.

On the quote the vehicle is identified as "Used (as Demo)".

I just think at $2500 off for a 1M with 8000 miles that they are not realistic. Now others may argue differently given that the allocations are finished. Now if it was $5000 off then I would take my chances given that it has warranty left.

[JC Exec]

I used to handle the PR pool cars for the Company (undisclossed name). And witnessed a lot of abuse from many so-called journalists. I just hated watching them doing all sorts of "testings" to the cars. Who can forget the reindeer test on the A-class. Many damages can't be detected at simple sight i.e. Bent suspension arms, fractured wheels on the inside. Whenever a friend or relative asked me to give them a good price on our fleet cars, I always warned them that no matter how large the discount was, the frequent visits to the service department will end up making them sell the car.
Some journalists compete among themselves into beating lap times, taking the largest G-force turn, etc. 1 out of 5 times their attempts end up on the " oooppsss I did not think it would not turn"...
I would seriously consider buying a PR Pool car, since some damaged parts are very hard to find as spare parts, and eventhough the plant try to fix the car before selling it, some damages don't show up on time. So spare yourself the frequent service department visits and pass on the "opportunity".

[Slats]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Also... when a car is sold as a used car... the dealer does not have to disclose any accident or damages to the buyer. Or if it was a buy back (lemon) no discloser is needed. Only when it is sold as new - are there consumer laws that come into play.

This is absolutely wrong. If a dealer is caught selling a lemon buy-back or a car that had previous significant damage without disclosure, in most states the dealer can get hit for actual damages, punitive damages and attorney's fees.

[v1k0d3n]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Sorry, but you're totally off base. Taking an engine to high rpm when it's cold is a sure way to reduce engine life dramatically. Even the best modern oils have much higher viscosity when cold, and the oil pump simply can't force it through the narrow channels needed to fully supply cam journals, etc quickly enough at high rpm. Engine parts rely 100% on oil film to avoid metal to metal contact and massively increased friction.

This is true with even the most modern engines, as has been repeatedly drilled into my head by my engine tuner (who checks my data logs for the GT3 to insure I let the oil warm up before getting on it). This guy designed and built the motors that won Daytona 2 years running. Each motor has a different oil temp needed to fully supply oil to redline- the GT3 is 160 C from memory.

Why do you think the redline rises with oil temp on an M3, even though the have the best, most expensive oil available?

I don't know who told you this or of you just assumed, but you're wrong.

Understood, and you're points (along with Neil's) I completely agree with. But this is assuming that media cars are getting completely beat to shit; I just don't think that they are as bad as everyone on here is making it. Wheres the actual proof of this...it's all assumptions, no? I don't know why, but this board has become so much more flame driven lately. Going back on topic, for the average person...I think that buying this car would be perfectly fine. Tests could confirm this if it was a concern and that was my other point.

[biglare]

Originally Posted by rossii

Hmmmm..........not sure about that.

Hahaha! SUX!



OP.... Why don't they just CPO the car as it is "used"? Then I think it may be worth it, but it should still be discounted more than that IMO.

Best of Luck!

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Slats

This is absolutely wrong. If a dealer is caught selling a lemon buy-back or a car that had previous significant damage without disclosure, in most states the dealer can get hit for actual damages, punitive damages and attorney's fees.

I think it depends on the state. It looks like there is some consumer laws for used cars now. http://www.lemonjustice.com/lemon-la...n_law_used.php I think the law must have changed. Because I know in the past used cars sold in Virginia did not need to be disclosed. Looks like there is "some" coverage. One should always be weary of a (like new)used car.

[v1k0d3n]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Some greater cosmic power is punishing me? You think getting a second chance is being punished ?

Quit complaining and buy the car!

That was my point too. When everyone else is asking premiums and it's safe to assume that first time owners will ask a fair amount (for used cars at initial invoice or higher)....I still think it's a decent deal (read; not amazing...decent). We're all looking at this from a perspective of current/new owners.

Have the car checked out by your choice mechanic. Inspect for issues. Test drive it. Check engine for any compression issues. To the OP: If everything turns out to be fine...why would you let all of use make the decision for you? This debate will never end...