So they took an E82 123d and put a V10 in it...

[Robin_NL]

Number one German carmag Sportauto(issue 12/2013) tests a BMW '1M lookalike', which began its life as a 123d coupé and after almost 100,000 miles(158,000kms) became a donor car to put in a M6 V10 built by TJ.

It has the F10 M5 brakesystem, 20 inch F10 5GT alloys, but the bodywork and interior is 1M .

Some facts:
0-100kmh: 4.2s (62mph)
0-200kmh:12.6s (124mph)
0-300kmh: 43.5s (187mph)

1625kgs. About 112kgs heavier than a normal 1M.

Weight distribution: 54.6/45.4 because of the bigger engine upfront.

Tyres P Zero Corsa 245/30 R20F and 295/25 R 20

Hockenheim short track 1:13.5( stock 1M 1:14.1 driven by Horst von Saurma )

Laptime driven by Christian Gebhardt, successor to Herr Horst and also a great competent driver.

Even with the 295ers at the back the car is even more prone to sideways action than our stock 1M

The whole article sums it up in one word: Faszination(Fascination):

Enjoy:

Cheers
Robin

[IEDEI]

wow! seems like a handful!

[ozinaldo]

Thanks for posting this Robin.

Lively car indeed! But seems like great driving from the pilot imo.

So, basically 0.6 seconds quicker than a stock 1M with stock PS2 tires driven by another driver (von Saurma) who might be slower than this driver as well. And even if they are equally at the limit on Hockenheim, the tire difference alone would cover most part of, if not all of that 0.6 seconds (Pirelli Corsa vs PS2, huge difference in grip), and this also without taking into account the size difference of the tires.

I see it as this car with that V10 is no quicker than a bone stock 1M on that track. They are pretty equal, when equipment/pilots etc. are apples to apples.

And let's not forget that a ACS tuned 1M which holds the Sachsenring track record for any BMW and pretty damn close to that track's record for any street legal car, which was 3.4 seconds quicker than a 1M and just a sec off from an Aventador on the same track. Thread is here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=813045

From the thread posts you can see that same ACS 1M with just 400 hp engine managed a 1.11.7 sec. lap on the Hockenheim, almost 3 seconds faster than this V10!

Basically, on track all you are left as a real bonus is the wonderful engine sound at high revs then.

Having said that, at the top speed acceleration run, you notice something else, different than a stock or even modded 1M with its N54T. After the end of the third gear, which is around 180 km/h, the acceleration is absolutely incomparable with the V10, I mean it keeps on pulling like a 1M could only dream between 80 to 150 km/h, at speeds well over 200 km/h. Lungs of the legendary swimmer Vladimir Salnikov, "The Monster of the Waves" it has

If I would be offered a choice between two 1Ms, both from factory, as a gift (use your imagination) with zero cost to me, one with the V10 and other with the N54 being the essential difference, I would go for the N54 or actual 1M. It is the more usable, more utilitarian and more tunable engine. This comes from a guy who has big respect to NA race engines and no I don't do drugs!

[ace11]

seems very lively

[mcx_]

Seems pretty pointless when 1m engine can be tuned so easily.

[Ollieb7]

Ugh! Flappy paddle!

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mcx_

Seems pretty pointless when 1m engine can be tuned do easily.

Originally Posted by Ollieb7

Ugh! Flappy paddle!

no doubt... And.. other than the engineering excercise.. seems like one of the primary reasons for the swap!

Originally Posted by ace11

seems very lively

you guys are way too kind. That thing handles like

way more understeer than stock
Way more oversteer than stock
transitions are even more twitchy and unsettling
corner entry is miserable
corner exit is ragged
Did I mention it plows like a farm implement? no thanks...

Props to the driver for keeping it off the wall at :53 seconds.

[Tony135]

I want to do this sooooo badly

[robertm]

I think you guys are missing the point. Someone jammed the biggest baddest motor BMW makes (made) into the smallest car they make. It's fricken ridiculously awesome!

I mean V10 baby! Plus 8200 rpm redline! Looked like an absolute riot to drive

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Tony135

I want to do this sooooo badly

I got a motor supplier - but unfortunately being in CA you can only legally have an s85 powered 1 series is if you get an 08 car with an 09 m6 motor.

The swap would be much cheaper out here too as you can get a 6mt (USA only) which makes things a lot easier.

The problem with the s85 on a 1er is it weighs over 100lbs more than the n54 which will noticeably chance the balance of the car, which I enjoy so much.

I don't think the guys who built this car are trying to set records or make a better car than the n54 1m. This car is on 20's. just dropping to 18's would enhance this car so much. I think they just wanted to make a wild crazy car.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I got a motor supplier - but unfortunately being in CA you can only legally have an s85 powered 1 series is if you get an 08 car with an 09 m6 motor.

I wouldn't consider the S85 personally, the balance issues would detract from the experience too much. I agree the car above is probably slower on most tracks than stock all being equal, adding the DCT to the stock 1M alone would likely keep it even.

If I wanted to give the car a harder edge, I'd go for a stroked S65 V8, either an M3 GTS motor or aftermarket 4.6L. With a dropped final drive this would give a similar torque profile to the 1M motor but with better top end power and throttle response, while the weight is similar enough that it wouldn't upset the balance much. It would be a more manic experience and less practical as a daily, but the overall driving experience would probably be an improvement.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

I wouldn't consider the S85 personally, the balance issues would detract from the experience too much. I agree the car above is probably slower on most tracks than stock all being equal, adding the DCT to the stock 1M alone would likely keep it even.

If I wanted to give the car a harder edge, I'd go for a stroked S65 V8, either an M3 GTS motor or aftermarket 4.6L. With a dropped final drive this would give a similar torque profile to the 1M motor but with better top end power and throttle response, while the weight is similar enough that it wouldn't upset the balance much. It would be a more manic experience and less practical as a daily, but the overall driving experience would probably be an improvement.

Complete S85 swaps in the US are around $10k in parts. An S65 runs about $15k and a stroker/swap will be around $27k. I can imagine an OEM GTS motor would easily be $40k plus. The S85 is a complete bargain for what it is. the age and the fact that the m5/6 have an aluminum chassis so they tend to get written off easier than the M3's give us an abundance of motors and parts.

im dropping a standard S65 V8 into my 1er. Non stroker. The other attention is being focused on lightening the car. I absolutely think the cars will benefit on track and balance will be preserved as the S65 only weighs 15lbs more than the n54.

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

Complete S85 swaps in the US are around $10k in parts. An S65 runs about $15k and a stroker/swap will be around $27k. I can imagine an OEM GTS motor would easily be $40k plus. The S85 is a complete bargain for what it is. the age and the fact that the m5/6 have an aluminum chassis so they tend to get written off easier than the M3's give us an abundance of motors and parts.

im dropping a standard S65 V8 into my 1er. Non stroker. The other attention is being focused on lightening the car. I absolutely think the cars will benefit on track and balance will be preserved as the S65 only weighs 15lbs more than the n54.

What are you doing to reduce the final drive ratio or reduce the speed in gears?

S85 is a bargain, I just don't think it's a good match for the 1 series.

The standard S65 should be good fun, though it's not worthwhile over a 1M IMHO as it would take away much of the in-gear punch that makes the car such a hooligan. I agree the stroker is pricey, but that just goes to show what's needed to make a significant advance. The standard S65 should be sharp and efficient, however the charm of the platform doesn't lie in its efficiency, IMHO.

Don't take this as a criticism of your project, it should be a complete blast if well executed and will have other charms. I'd stick some skinny rubber on it for maximum smiles

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

What are you doing to reduce the final drive ratio or reduce the speed in gears?

S85 is a bargain, I just don't think it's a good match for the 1 series.

The standard S65 should be good fun, though it's not worthwhile over a 1M IMHO as it would take away much of the in-gear punch that makes the car such a hooligan. I agree the stroker is pricey, but that just goes to show what's needed to make a significant advance. The standard S65 should be sharp and efficient, however the charm of the platform doesn't lie in its efficiency, IMHO.

Don't take this as a criticism of your project, it should be a complete blast if well executed and will have other charms. I'd stick some skinny rubber on it for maximum smiles

I will be using an m3 diff, tranny and rear subframe. The car will be a small 3100lb m3 essentially (which is still pretty fat).

It is very much a lateral move in power and less torque, but I want the NA powerband, S65 reliablility/cooling and the 8600rpm. A FBO tuned m3 can put down around 380-390 to the wheels. An S65 powered car will put down the same HP much more controllably on the track. I believe the strength of the e82 is in the chassis over the motor and am excited to take what I feel is the best of the e9x m3 and combine it with what I feel is the best of the e82.

But really, both motors have their strengths and appeal to different people. Around town in lower RPM an n54 will absolutely feel faster, but on the track the S65 will win.